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Author Topic: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth  (Read 43293 times)

Weirdo

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1410 on: 08 November 2018, 15:36:46 »
Ever since USS Cole, i suspect all warships have to treat heavy traffic waters as potential threat zones, which means going dark.
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kato

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1411 on: 08 November 2018, 15:40:12 »
Also can give into on the capabilities of said ships and their full locations.
You don't really need AIS for that. There's enough "oceanographic ships", "fleet service boats" and "fishing trawlers" - at least in this particular theater.

Ever since USS Cole, i suspect all warships have to treat heavy traffic waters as potential threat zones, which means going dark.
European ships generally (!) go dark upon entering any mission theater. Transfers are done lit.

DoctorMonkey

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1412 on: 08 November 2018, 18:04:42 »
I'm very pleased the crew are all ok - we should be able to make jokes soon


I'm currently trying to work out something about needing to reinstate the old punishments for falling asleep on watch...



4am is when your physiology is at its lowest point (eg cortisol levels) so I'm not surprised that is when ships see the most accidents, I think it is when most problems happen due to human error type issues generally and it is also known as a time people often "slip away" (or die as we might put it more bluntly)



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Ghost0402

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1413 on: 08 November 2018, 19:31:34 »
I'm surprised it's not required in friendly waters and harbours when not at war footing I can understand it in open waters but how long will it be until this happens to a passenger ferry of some sorts and the loss of life is considerable
This has cropped up a couple of times with the US Navy recently.  They run with it in receive only mode for operational security according to more than one article.  Something came out not too long ago that they are to use the full AIS now in high traffic areas.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1414 on: 08 November 2018, 22:07:57 »
That hull damage doesn't look too bad at first glance - it's a lot of hull plate ripped off, of course, but the hit doesn't seem to be all that deep into her side.  Wide and tall, but shallow; much of the innards should be structurally intact.  Compare that to the penetrating hit on Cole.  Interesting that 127 of her crew got off in boats, and ten stayed aboard to manage the beaching - that strongly suggests injuries were miniscule, if any, and further suggests the impact damage wasn't all that hard.

Flooding on the other hand, well, that's a different situation as low as she is at the stern, but at least her most pricey bits on the superstructure seem to have stayed out of the water. 

Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1415 on: 09 November 2018, 01:01:31 »
I'm very pleased the crew are all ok - we should be able to make jokes soon

I'm currently trying to work out something about needing to reinstate the old punishments for falling asleep on watch...

I'd suggest keel-hauling the scurvy bilge-rat, but at the current state of the ship that's not quite the punishment it used to be...

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1416 on: 09 November 2018, 08:26:52 »
Let's get back to pictures. 

USS Cairo then

and now
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1417 on: 09 November 2018, 08:28:35 »
That's a cool display

Weirdo

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1418 on: 09 November 2018, 09:01:12 »
I understand leaving her like that, but I'd love to see a fully restored vessel someday.

I love the City-class. No clue why, but every so often my brain likes to inflict upon me a repeating mental image of one of these cruising down the river while(somehow) blasting the area with Abba.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1419 on: 09 November 2018, 09:29:49 »
What i have read is her condition is worsting being still open air like she is.  I hope they do inclose the ship so they keep her from deteriorating more.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

Weirdo

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1420 on: 09 November 2018, 09:49:09 »
Something similar to Vasa?
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1421 on: 09 November 2018, 11:09:02 »

I love the City-class. No clue why, but every so often my brain likes to inflict upon me a repeating mental image of one of these cruising down the river while(somehow) blasting the area with Abba.
Representative of the type, aren't they? Any tune in particular?

Weirdo

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1422 on: 09 November 2018, 11:49:26 »
Take a Chance On Me.

No clue why my brain links that song to Civil War gunboats. I don't even know the lyrics, aside from that one line! :bang:
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

chanman

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1423 on: 09 November 2018, 14:50:24 »
Ever since USS Cole, i suspect all warships have to treat heavy traffic waters as potential threat zones, which means going dark.

Being run over by commercial traffic is also a rather non-trivial threat. Arguably, being run over by a supertanker is going to cause far more damage than anything that will fit on a speedboat.

It's analogous to jaywalking while wearing a cloak of invisibility.  :D

Speaking of invisibility... various missile boats/corvettes

Taiwan's so far only Tuo Chiang class corvette (567t full load)


China's Type 022 missile boat. I swear there's something about that super-intense blue in the colour scheme that seems to blow out the saturation of the photos until they look like were taken with a 40 year old point-and-shoot (83 in service, 224t full load)


Finnish Hamina class fast attack craft (4 in service, 250t)


Norwegian Skjold class corvette/FAC (6 in service, 274t full load)


Swedish Visby class corvette (5 in service, 640t)



I noticed that for supposedly stealthy ships, they all have a bunch of dangly bits that would greatly increase RCS

I am Belch II

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1424 on: 09 November 2018, 16:18:06 »
How about this photo of Norway FFG Helge Ingstad after collision with a Tanker and the crew ran aground so it wouldn't sink and to get the crew off.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1425 on: 09 November 2018, 16:20:13 »
if your stealth is too good, you end up an unnatural flat spot against the background noise from the sea surface. plus they aren't really aiming for invisibility so much as just looking smaller/different than they are.

kato

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1426 on: 09 November 2018, 16:54:28 »
I noticed that for supposedly stealthy ships, they all have a bunch of dangly bits that would greatly increase RCS
Stealth is relative. One of the most common joint exercises between corvette squadrons in the Baltic consists of German boats sneaking into a maneuver zone, firing missiles at multiple Visbys and then trying to get out of the upsurging network.

Norwegian Skjold with CVN75 during Trident Juncture:

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1427 on: 09 November 2018, 16:55:31 »
I guess, if you can't afford to build subs enmasse, build little stealthy ships.


If they could properly run a building around it, then partially restore the thing with the armor on one side, and a little on the other, but leave the rest skeletal like that, it'd be a fantastic museum.  Seeing just how thick and sturdy the protection was, while exploring the construction and actual function of the ship on the other side would be amazing - and doing demonstrations of gun handling and whatnot for all the spectators to see on the outside of the ship, maybe with a little popper firework to get a wee puff of smoke out of it.

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1428 on: 09 November 2018, 17:39:20 »
83 Type 022 missile boats???  Good grief, those things fire in mass i don't care how good your anti-missile systems are, their going take someone down with enough those force multipliers for missiles.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1429 on: 09 November 2018, 17:58:01 »
Meanwhile, Special K is kill.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/11/russia-admits-that-it-cant-retrofit-aircraft-carrier-after-accident/

They don't have a berth anywhere big enough for the ship, PD-50 can't be raised without at a year's work and significant foreign help, and there's no way to repair the damage without that drydock.  Rumor I hear from USN friendos is that the hull's penetrated just above the waterline, so no going into open seas or else the flooding will become a major problem.  They can't really move it, apparently, and they don't have anyplace to put it without building a whole new port just for Kuznetsov.

I'd say she's done.

Weirdo

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1430 on: 09 November 2018, 19:04:38 »
She's not entering service anytime remotely soon, but the Russians have been willing to put a hull back into service after it's been rotting for a decade or two.

I'd say even odds.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1431 on: 09 November 2018, 21:48:54 »
True, though (rule 4 skirting) at the time she was rebuilt oil prices were skyrocketing and Russian exports were funding the hell out of a lot of things.  Nowadays, not so much, and they've been tightening the belt across the board.  If things change, and assuming she doesn't sink from that hole in her side, then yeah they'll push her back in service but that's going to require a LOT of investment.  National pride and all, though, being able to power project is a big thing.

Personally I'd abandon it, focus on the submarines, and start sacrificing children to Bereginia or Vodianoy.  Seriously, the Russian naval history is...well, someone's gotta be the far end of the bell curve.

Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1432 on: 09 November 2018, 23:40:10 »
Strip and scrap the K, buy a new one off the Chinese.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1433 on: 10 November 2018, 01:22:01 »
The irony in that is enough to jumpstart Khrushchev himself from the grave...

Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1434 on: 10 November 2018, 02:50:26 »
Indeed. The wheel turns and turns.

I'm reminded of the Kirov class, Admiral Nakhimov they have in the yard for refit. And it's a hell of a refit, practically gutted the Cold War era insides for new stuff, seem to have even cut off and rebuilt the bow and other hull sections.

Thing is, it's such a big rebuild it's practically a new ship. One wonders if a new ship might as well have been built. Ditto for Special K...





Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1435 on: 10 November 2018, 13:59:44 »
Holy crap, it looks like they's taken the ship down it's hull plates trying rebuild it.

I don't like the Russian's behavior over the years, be interesting if their military may try pursue the Storm Class Carrier they had been showing model of.  Their going need something.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

glitterboy2098

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1436 on: 10 November 2018, 18:42:50 »
Holy crap, it looks like they's taken the ship down it's hull plates trying rebuild it.

I don't like the Russian's behavior over the years, be interesting if their military may try pursue the Storm Class Carrier they had been showing model of.  Their going need something.
considering its age, and how out of date it was, they probably have. pretty much everything but the hull needs repairs, replacement, or updating by now.
honestly, i suspect that the final cost would be higher than building a new ship, but since a new ship would require a bunch of R&D work they don't want to spend time on, they are going with an extensive rebuild. they do have a lot of old hulls they can refit after all, and they can probably work up a refit plan faster for those older hulls than they can design a new ship.

and i agree it will be interesting to see if they decide to go for the new carrier design they've shown off. but they've talked supercarriers several times without going in for it, so who knows.

I am Belch II

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1437 on: 10 November 2018, 19:53:08 »
I've always thought the Kirov class is one of the nicest looking ships floating. I think the lines we so nice and smooth for a Russian Ship.
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Luciora

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1438 on: 11 November 2018, 01:00:21 »

glitterboy2098

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Re: Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth
« Reply #1439 on: 11 November 2018, 02:11:13 »
don't trust that site. ever. they have been caught presenting fictional material as real multiple times. and when you post comments pointing that out, they delete the comments.

 

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