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Author Topic: Mech of the Week: Cougar  (Read 11299 times)

StCptMara

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #30 on: 30 July 2011, 19:46:57 »
This is why I wish we had more, more recent configurations for the original 3050 omnis. A lot of newer omnis like the Cougar wind up being better, not because of the base chassis is any better, but the configurations are designed by people familiar with clantech. The originals suffer for being designed by people used to playing the IS to do things the IS mechs couldn't - against opponents they should have been fighting for decades, most 3050 omni configs aren't that good.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #31 on: 30 July 2011, 20:36:10 »
Yeah, that doesn't really much sometimes, and the basic point he's making is that a lot of the configurations we have are, at best, quirky.  (Timber Wolf Prime, I'm looking at you.)

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #32 on: 31 July 2011, 07:23:19 »
Heh, as subtle as it is, I really like the Timber Wolf F vs the Prime...

I have a massive disdain for the Cougar - and this as a regular JF player - to the point of eschewing it completely. Yes, it looks dead sexy, which is why I have a miniature of it.

I actually do not agree that the drop of 1 rather important mvmt pt vs the Adder is worth the 3 tons of pod space, especially when you also consider the loss of .5 tons of armour. (Aff, we are not mentioning the fixed Flamer, ever.)

And the Adder has excellent configurations, really (though the D is completely redundant).

At the end of the day, it really comes down to the argument of speed grouping putting this in with all those 5/8 heavies and even assault of the original 16 Omnis. Side note: with its TC and using the old rules, the Adder was a serious threat even for assaults. I once had an attacker bid an Adder Prime vs my Gargoyle and was shocked at losing 100% of my CT armour in the first turn of shooting. That smarts. That is something that the Cougar is not likely to do reliably. (But yes, the other points about the Cougar B vs Adder Prime of the article hold true.)

Ok, so here is the argument: it is a light that brings a lot to the table. Well, that ceases to be of primary interest to me when all it brings to the table is exactly what the bigger 'Mechs bring in, but less. Strangely, this offends me much more from Clan perspective, where efficiency is of primary interest. In IS settings, where economy rules over efficiency, by all means, saddle me with Valkyries or even Initiates. But I balk at this rationale being applied to Clan 'Mechs.

Really, even the Kit Fox does not do it for me on account of being at least 1 MP too slow (never mind one of the biggest atrocities ever commited against the Smart Armor doctrine). And even back in the old days when 3058 was brand new, I maintained the view that the Adder was the lightest BATTLEMech ever (vs Scout or Light or whatnot). Slowing it down, pulling some armour and upgrading an armament that already bordered on the excessive is exactly the route I would not have wanted to see it go. Not at all.

Hm, I shot down both the Cougar and the Kit Fox in one simple comment. Ok Jade Falcon trothkin, if you want to use a homegrown light OmniMech, look to the Fire Falcon and nowhere else, period. ;)
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Diablo48

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #33 on: 31 July 2011, 07:37:27 »
...
Ok, so here is the argument: it is a light that brings a lot to the table. Well, that ceases to be of primary interest to me when all it brings to the table is exactly what the bigger 'Mechs bring in, but less. Strangely, this offends me much more from Clan perspective, where efficiency is of primary interest. In IS settings, where economy rules over efficiency, by all means, saddle me with Valkyries or even Initiates. But I balk at this rationale being applied to Clan 'Mechs....

While I strongly agree with you on a frontline omni like this (hence my dislike for the design), I think the Clans do have a place for cheap, expendable machines in secondline/Solahma formations where a subpar machine can go do some damage with cheap components without any worries about warriors needing to team up to take down opponents.  Of course, most of these slots are filled by old Star League 'Mechs or IS salvage, but the need is still there.


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Sabelkatten

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #34 on: 31 July 2011, 09:30:57 »
Personally I would really have liked to see the Cougar using a SFE and max armor rather than being a "Hellbringer light". #P

It's just 4 tons less pod space, an effective drop in firepower of less than 15%. But it would have produced a cheap, durable, mech the Falcons could have used to shore up the fronts while rebuilding. Plus it would have been something different! >:(

As is the Cougar is IME best used for mobile fire support (just like the Kit Fox and Hellbringer). Get in close and the enemy will pound you to scrap! I honestly don't even see it as very good against IS units - 5/8 isn't fast enough to stay away from solid 7/11 (or faster) design that the IS has aplenty. And the armor just isn't up to trading blows with mediums!

StCptMara

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #35 on: 31 July 2011, 10:19:24 »
Actually, jymset, I see the Cougar's bringing the firepower (and speed) of a Heavy in a Light to be a selling point in Clan Trials.
Remember that, technically, all you have to specify is that you are defending with a Star of Light 'Mechs and a Star of Elementals.
Now, your star consists of 2 Cougars, 2 Fire Falcons, and a Kit Fox, and your Elementals are Gnomes...you have just used
the Clan bidding rules to get your opponant to send a force that he or she thinks can take on a star of light 'mechs and
Elementals. Your bid is accurate(since Gnomes are still considered Elementals, as they are still crewed by Elementals), and you did
field a light star..However, unless your opponant brings a heavy mech, he or she is likely to not win.

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Moonsword

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #36 on: 31 July 2011, 23:50:21 »
That's pretty much my opinion on it.  Personally, I might've dropped the Gnomes for APGR Elementals to get some more mobility out of the BA, but that's just me.

The new Cougar in XTRO: Clans will be added in another clip of Hammond to be released in September.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #37 on: 03 June 2019, 15:15:37 »
Necroing, but we did get a new variant in Record Sheets 3145 New Tech New Upgrades.

Personally, I'm unimpressed by the I variant.  Improved Heavy Large Lasers are a scary weapon system, but they generate so much heat that the mech simply can't keep up with them.

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Scotty

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #38 on: 03 June 2019, 15:49:09 »
Necroing, but we did get a new variant in Record Sheets 3145 New Tech New Upgrades.

Personally, I'm unimpressed by the I variant.  Improved Heavy Large Lasers are a scary weapon system, but they generate so much heat that the mech simply can't keep up with them.

I love it because it's the first Cougar Omni config to mount a Supercharger, meaning it's still capable of hitting a +3 TMM with heat trouble, and a +4 TMM on the approach.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #39 on: 03 June 2019, 21:04:16 »
I do like the Supercharger.  I just wish the lasers were, well, almost anything else.

I actually watched a Cougar Prime kill itself once.  The guy running it refused to fire anything less than all the weapons.  Every round.  Kept firing until he hit 19 heat.  Rolled a 2 on the ammo explosion check.  One side of the mech went violently in another direction and the pilot was rendered unconscious from feedback.  Asleep for one round, he wakes up and decides to fire everything again, going back up to 19 heat.  Rolls a 2 again, and the second ammo explosion destroys the mech.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #40 on: 03 June 2019, 21:26:16 »
...  The Cougar is intended for doing two things: Fighting Inner Sphere units, which it does very well, and fighting duels under zellbrigen, which it also does very well.  Where it doesn't work as well is doing something it's not actually intended to do, fight off much larger Clan 'Mechs in non-zell engagements, ...

Agreed.

I don't care for slowing down an Adder, but for picking on IS Light/Mediums or duels where speed matters less than Armor/Firepower, it works.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #41 on: 03 June 2019, 21:29:17 »
Yeah, that doesn't really much sometimes, and the basic point he's making is that a lot of the configurations we have are, at best, quirky.  (Timber Wolf Prime, I'm looking at you.)

T-Wolf-Prime isn't perfect, but I can think of a LOT worse "quirky" designs in TRO3050,  LOL.

DireWolf-B
WarHawk-B
Gargoyle-B
Timberworlf-B

I am beginning to see a pattern here.


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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #42 on: 03 June 2019, 21:34:41 »
Personally I would really have liked to see the Cougar using a SFE and max armor rather than being a "Hellbringer light". #P

Interesting idea.

Myself, I would have liked to see them INCREASE the speed of the Adder for the Cougar, not decrease it.

Give me 7/11 & some MASC maybe for quick bursts.

Yeah, you'll lose some firepower but they are both over-gunned anyway.

I find many of the clan lights are either too slow or too fast(mobile) w/o finding that sweet spot that baby bear likes.

The KitFox on the other hand w/ its smaller Engine/Gyro would have made a nice sized SFE Omni at that 6/9 speed.  And again can afford to loose the pod space.
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Scotty

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #43 on: 03 June 2019, 21:39:19 »
I have a major soft spot for anything that's a Light 'Mech but relatively slow.  A 5/8 Clan Light 'Mech is honestly a pretty fair fight for a lot of Inner Sphere Heavies clear through the Jihad.

I like that version of "The Clans are better than you" a lot more than I do pretending the Stormcrow and Timber Wolf are anything approaching a fair fight even with a worse pilot.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #44 on: 03 June 2019, 23:02:05 »
Come to think of this, the Cougar makes sense in two ways:
1) As a Trial-duelist. Relatively cheap due to its size, yet epitomizes Clan mentality well.
2) As a 'Mech designed to take on the Inner Sphere armies with minimum of resources. Sure, it ain't too tough, but it can kill maybe even much heavier IS 'Mech. Tonnage-wise, acceptable trade-off probably, and that's ignoring how 5/8 mobility and Clan weapon ranges possibly allow it to inflict a lot of damage before it starts even taking damage.

It is economical, so to speak, in as much as a 'Mech can be cheap...
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marauder648

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #45 on: 04 June 2019, 02:30:52 »
The Cougar is a very nasty bit of work to fight. The LPL's can rip a light Mech apart before they get a chance to go "Nani!?" and because they are Clan pulsers, it can smack down more than a few Mediums and hurt heavies before return fire starts getting accurate. Sure its slow for a Clan light, but we're use to that with the Kit Fox and Puma. The configs are nice too. With the Puma i'd have made it a 7/11 to give us something different from the 6/9 of the Kit Fox personally.

Also with the Puma there's none of the more derpy configs that popped up in 3050. IE "I have one SRM-2, and 8 tons of ammo, a rear firing flamer, three AMS and a Narc pod!"
« Last Edit: 04 June 2019, 02:34:03 by marauder648 »
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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #46 on: 04 June 2019, 12:46:38 »
You prayed to salvage the Cougar A in MCG . . .

Other than that, I have been on the other end of the Cougar in games.  My favorite was a Trial of Grievance against a Jade Falcon during the original FGC iteration in '04?  He got to decide light mechs, and at that point I was all about being insulting.  He chose the Cougar C.  I selected the Pack Hunter . . . five tons lighter and a standard mech rather than a prestigious Omni.  I ran in at him . . . he missed, I hit with the ERPPC- side torso.  Next turn, closed to med range he stands on the hill I think in woods to fire.  Missed with his Gauss again, I hit with the ERPPC . . . same torso, it was gone and so was the Gauss Rifle.  Last turn . . . med range for his ERML, short for the ERPPC . . . he missed with all the ERMLs, I hit with the ERPPC for the 3rd time- to the CT, armor gone and internal to crit the engine out.  Falcon falls after three rounds of combat.  RP'd the report up by throwing a chunk of green painted armor to the feet of the Falcon delegation.
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Ulquiorra9000

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #47 on: 07 June 2019, 21:09:26 »
Personally, I like to use the Cougar as a low-BV fire support unit that can easily get into position or run away if a larger unit starts pressuring it. This is one of my favorite light mechs since it hits like a Clan medium or IS 60-tonner, but at a scrappy 35 tons. I've only used the prime, though I enjoy firing twin LRM 10s and a large pulse at somebody. How many other light mechs can force a PSR when not even firing all weapons?

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #48 on: 07 June 2019, 21:36:45 »
Not many, and it's especially rare at 20 hexes.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Cougar
« Reply #49 on: 17 June 2019, 11:14:42 »
Personally, I like to use the Cougar as a low-BV fire support unit that can easily get into position or run away if a larger unit starts pressuring it. This is one of my favorite light mechs since it hits like a Clan medium or IS 60-tonner, but at a scrappy 35 tons. I've only used the prime, though I enjoy firing twin LRM 10s and a large pulse at somebody. How many other light mechs can force a PSR when not even firing all weapons?
Granted it requires an alpha strike and some good cluster rolls, but this thing could force a PSR against HARDENED armor if you get lucky.
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