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Author Topic: FS-TC border during 4SW  (Read 826 times)

Colt Ward

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FS-TC border during 4SW
« on: 03 June 2018, 01:37:36 »
Did the FedSuns run a minor raiding campaign to keep the TC occupied during the 4SW?  What did the TC do during that time . . . ?
Colt Ward

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Hellraiser

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Re: FS-TC border during 4SW
« Reply #1 on: 03 June 2018, 03:30:42 »
I could be wrong, but didn't a large chunk of FS forces stay parked in the Cap March making sure no one got adventurous?

I want to say ....... many of the Hasek loyalist groups as well as the Lexington Combat Group &/or Fed Suns Armored Cav didn't participate in Op: Rat offensives & instead watched the TC/CC boarders.
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BrokenMnemonic

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Re: FS-TC border during 4SW
« Reply #2 on: 03 June 2018, 04:10:20 »
Comparing what was in the PDZs adjacent to the Taurian Concordat at the end of the Third Succession War with the Operation RAT deployment tables, there were a few changes in deployment:

Islamabad PDZ: Islamabad CrMM stayed on Pierce, Fighting Urukhai moved from Pierce to Ziliang
Kearny PDZ: The Dioscuri stayed on Vackisujfalu
New Syrtis PDZ:  New Syrtis CMM stayed on New Syrtis, 6th Syrtis Fusiliers moved from New Srytis to Weatogue, 1st Capellan Dragoons moved from Wernke to Kittery, Lexington Combat Group moved from Wappingers to Monhegan
Ridgebrook PDZ: Ridgebrook CMM stayed oN Ridgebrook, 8th Syrtis Fusiliers stayed on Avigait
Sirdar PDZ: Sirdar CMM stayed on Sirdar, Davion Assault Guards moved from Frazer to Kittery, 39th Avalon Hussars moved from Aucara to Kittery, 15th Deneb Light Cavalry moved from Verlo to Kittery, 3rd Ceti Hussars moved from Immenstadt to Manapire, 1st FedSuns Armoured Cavalry stayed on Ziliang, Illician Lancers moved from Jonzac to Ziliang, Wylie's Coyotes stayed on Bromhead
Warren PDZ: Warren CMM stayed on Warren, 2nd Albion Training Cadre stayed on Enchi

So, there weren't that many units particularly close to the Concordat at the start of the Fourth Succession War; regular units largely got pulled into Ziliang and Kittery, two worlds at the extreme ends of salients into the Capellan Confederation, while other units like the March Militia basically stayed where they were. The troop movements suggest the FedSuns wanted to keep pressure on the Capellan border or tie down defending forces, but they didn't go on the offensive, and of those units that were in sytems brodering the Concordat, like the Coyotes on Bromhead, stayed where they were.

Alternatively, you can take the view that the Taurian border was basically being guarded throughout the war by a handful of March Militia formations, the 2nd Albion Training Cadre, the Dioscuri and Wylie's Coyotes, which I guess says something about how big a threat the AFFS viewed the TDF as being at the time.
« Last Edit: 03 June 2018, 04:12:43 by BrokenMnemonic »

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Archangel

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Re: FS-TC border during 4SW
« Reply #3 on: 07 June 2018, 10:32:52 »
Several factors apparently not already covered:

Michael Hasek-Davion intentionally kept units loyal to him out of war both to sabotage Hanse's plans (while trying to present himself as a leader who cares about his people) and to further his own ambitions.  After all he didn't want to break his agreement with Max (yet) nor did he want soldiers loyal to him being caught in a Capellan trap (which of course the 5th Syrtis Fusiliers would be - after his death) and slaughtered by his 'ally'.

Of course Hanse knew that Michael was a traitor and intentionally kept units that were more loyal to Michael out of the war as much as possible.  While those fiercely anti-Capellan units would have loved to participate in the destruction of the CC, Hanse couldn't trust them not to pass vital military secrets on to Michael who would then pass it on to his Capellan allies.  For example, they might pass on the fact that the AFFS was going to invade the Confederation to Michael in the mistaken belief that he might want to launch his own offensive.  He, of course, would be more likely to warn Max in the hopes that Hanse's offensive would fail and he could use the political backlash to elevate himself to First Prince.

In addition because Hanse couldn't trust Michael, he couldn't trust units loyal to Michael not to back him if he decided to make a move [declare independence, try to seize the throne, ally himself with Liao militarily (as he planned to do before his death), etc] so Hanse had to keep some units in place to try and check Michael's ambitions and if necessary intercede (aka attack the traitors).

Finally, there is also the fact that Operation RAT already strained the AFFS' logistical network beyond the breaking point and opening another front would simply have made the supply situation worse (which is also a major reason why the AFFS' response on the Draconis front was largely left to Wolf's Dragoons).

I don't recall any major TDF operations, but if I recall correctly they went on high alert in the belief that once Hanse finished his Capellan offensive, they would be next and stayed in that posture long after the war ended in the further mistaken belief that Hanse was trying to trick them and they were determined not to be caught off-guard like the Capellans.
« Last Edit: 07 June 2018, 10:36:07 by Archangel »
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Colt Ward

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Re: FS-TC border during 4SW
« Reply #4 on: 07 June 2018, 11:18:46 »
The last bit sounds familiar . . . I just wonder if there was any raiding to keep the TC distracted.  Hmm, might have been a good use of some Michael-loyal units for before/during the Invasion.  Thanks, I do not have 4SW Atlas books.
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BrokenMnemonic

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Re: FS-TC border during 4SW
« Reply #5 on: 07 June 2018, 17:12:59 »
The Periphery (2nd Edition) mentions on page 12 that "The union of the Federated Suns with the Lyran Commonwealth into a single, vast super-state, plus the conquest ofnearly half the Capellan Confederation, tipped Thomas Calderon's fear of the Federated Suns into outright paranoia. Convinced that the Davions intended to invade the Concordat, Thomas kept the Taurian Defense Force in a state of alert and continued to pour money into military coffers." It then talks about money going into the upgrading the TDF's aerospace forces and bringing in instructors from the Outworlds Alliance, leading to resentment about paying foreigners when no invasion appeared, as did escalating pirate raids on the Concordat's border worlds.

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Colt Ward

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Re: FS-TC border during 4SW
« Reply #6 on: 07 June 2018, 17:26:43 »
Hm . . . did their ASF buff get better?  And pirate raids could easily be minor nobles going a-viking.
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Frabby

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Re: FS-TC border during 4SW
« Reply #7 on: 07 June 2018, 17:30:33 »
Archangel already mentioned the strained logistics. JumpShips were the weak link in the chain/the bottleneck that defined the upper cap. To highlight this from another angle, remember that Davion absolutely used every single last one JumpShip he could get to ferry his RCTs into the CapCon. Not only military vessels but any and all. The Vagabond School JumpShips were pressed into military service as were as many trader vessels as possible, to the point of choking the FedSuns economy to death for years to come.

Even if the troops were there, there simply wasn't any transport capacity. Davion's strategy was to overwhelm the CC by throwing everything and the kitchen sink at them. Why waste a single ship on the Taurians when you're stretched thin already?
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Archangel

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Re: FS-TC border during 4SW
« Reply #8 on: 07 June 2018, 17:47:25 »
The last bit sounds familiar . . . I just wonder if there was any raiding to keep the TC distracted.  Hmm, might have been a good use of some Michael-loyal units for before/during the Invasion.  Thanks, I do not have 4SW Atlas books.

More likely the AFFS High Command would simply have ordered units in the area to keep an eye on the TDF and be ready to respond in case they tried to take advantage of the AFFS' distraction as it isn't likely the Hanse or the AFFS High Command regarded the TDF as a serious threat.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: FS-TC border during 4SW
« Reply #9 on: 08 June 2018, 13:49:50 »
More likely the AFFS High Command would simply have ordered units in the area to keep an eye on the TDF and be ready to respond in case they tried to take advantage of the AFFS' distraction as it isn't likely the Hanse or the AFFS High Command regarded the TDF as a serious threat.
which, given how such things worked during the late succession wars, probably would mean the regional command authorizing small harrassment raids into TC space..

Frabby

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Re: FS-TC border during 4SW
« Reply #10 on: 08 June 2018, 16:49:22 »
which, given how such things worked during the late succession wars, probably would mean the regional command authorizing small harrassment raids into TC space..
Again, what JumpShips would they use for those small raids? All JumpShips had been ordered into the CC. Industries were dying, planetary economies were devastated, people were starving, all for a lack of JumpShips. If any JumpShips remained then it was because they were some planet's lifeline, and couldn't be diverted for frivolous actions against the Taurians. (Or if they could, then they would be more useful for Operation Rat, and would have been sent to the Capellan front instead - it's a catch-22 situation.)
And even if the ComStar JumpShip bus lines extended across the FedSuns/Taurian border, which I doubt, AFFS raiders would probably still not use them as Hanse Davion mistrusted ComStar.
« Last Edit: 08 June 2018, 16:55:33 by Frabby »
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JadedFalcon

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Re: FS-TC border during 4SW
« Reply #11 on: 08 June 2018, 21:30:50 »
It would make more sense to pay pirates to raid the TC than use FedSuns assets. Might also keep the pirates from raiding your own worlds if they're busy getting their loot elsewhere.