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Author Topic: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race  (Read 43750 times)

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #570 on: 28 July 2018, 17:31:14 »
Update: I'm not even close to finished. This turn is low on combat, so it'll be faster, and if all goes well it may be up tomorrow. I'll give an update (or the full turn) tomorrow evening.

Also, I still need answers re: jointly-owned worlds from the FS, DC, and CC. If I don't hear from you, I'll assume the Navy is indifferent and the NPCs will make their decision without you swaying it meaningfully.

truetanker

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #571 on: 28 July 2018, 17:43:13 »
What about me? I kinda own but still contested world.

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
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Smegish

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #572 on: 28 July 2018, 17:45:22 »
The DCA is in favour of such a agreement, the Terrans will pay to develop those worlds we can take from them later, and also we gain access to the technology involved.

Jester Motley

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #573 on: 29 July 2018, 12:15:21 »
As this has been a decade of turmoil, chaos, and change, the prospect of additional change has been met with very mixed reactions amongst the CC Navy.  In the end, the decision to advocate for getting in bed with the Terrans came down to the fact that the funding was desperately needed and the fear that should our enemies widen the already huge gulf in funding still more, there would be no way we could survive.  Either we use the funding to span the gap and gain more parity, or we keep them from gaining that advantage.

(CC Naval Department is in favor of split worlds.)

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #574 on: 29 July 2018, 22:27:49 »
Update: This weekend was stupid busy, and I'm still not close to done. My goal is to get it posted by Thursday, because I'm leaving for vacation on Friday(returning the weekend following, so it shouldn't roadblock things too badly...). Sorry about the delays.

On the good news side, I'm getting research done for future turns, and I've made a few changes that should help me expedite things a bit. Hopefully that'll speed things up. I'll be keeping it fairly close to canon until the Age of War kicks off, but after that I expect butterflies to start flapping in more noticeable ways. I'll also try to keep the write-up of the less important fights shorter, so that they're quicker to write. I just need to have enough time to do that writing.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #575 on: 29 July 2018, 22:44:37 »
Thank you for the update!

truetanker

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #576 on: 31 July 2018, 14:09:17 »
I'll be attending the local Gencon Convention, so best guess is Monday or Tuesday to check in, I'll try soonest at best. Might be able to post a comment or two, but one never knows!  xp

TT
Khan,Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse

That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #577 on: 03 August 2018, 10:59:22 »
I've got the turn mostly written, and should have it up this afternoon. Some of the fluff event write-ups will be on the short side, because of time pressure, but it'll get out the door on time.

Only one real fight, but it's a doozy.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #578 on: 03 August 2018, 11:13:20 »
I've got the turn mostly written, and should have it up this afternoon. Some of the fluff event write-ups will be on the short side, because of time pressure, but it'll get out the door on time.

Only one real fight, but it's a doozy.

Excellent.  Im willing to trade some length for some speed, especially with the fluff events.  And I'm awful curious about the 'doozy' fight - my 'research the Battletech Universe Crystal Ball' isnt giving up its secrets to me very well. :)

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #579 on: 03 August 2018, 11:26:56 »
Let's just say that my original impression of "Splendid Isolation" was somewhat over-stated. Digging through the histories, I came across a non-specific mention of a dispute, and so I rolled some dice to see if it was just diplomatic wrangling or whether it went military. And it seems that everyone was feeling unfortunately hot-headed that day.  :ticked:

I think the fallout from this will constitute the first of the really major butterflies, though that won't happen until next turn.

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #580 on: 03 August 2018, 13:09:51 »
Turn 4: 2380-2389

Previous turn: 2370-2379

Player Turns:
Lyran Commonwealth: Budget $93B.
Free Worlds League: Budget $104B.
Draconis Combine: Budget $111B.
Federated Suns: Budget $98B.
Capellan Confederation: Budget $89B.
Marian Hegemony: Budget $12B.

NPC Turns:
Terran Hegemony: Budget $765B.
United Hindu Collective: Budget $23B.
Rim Worlds Republic: Budget $24B.
Taurian Concordat: Budget $12B.

2380:
The Terran Hegemony's proposal for jointly-owned worlds has been debated at some length by the councils of the great lords of the outer realms, and their overall reception has generally been positive.

In the Draconis Combine, Nihongi Kurita's response to the proposal was as abrupt as his response to any other form of business that his courtiers raise to his attention - "Sure, that sounds fine. Find them a few good planets, and make sure to reserve some nice fields for the Coordinator's stables."

In the Federated Suns, Paul Davion immediately vetoed the idea. "The Terrans already have far more economic muscle than we do, and now they want us to give them even more, and to pay for the privilege? Not a chance! Oh my, you'd better send for my doctor - I feel faint."

In the Capellan Confederation, Franco Liao was initially uncertain of the idea. However, after consultation with his ministers, especially the head of the navy, the decision was eventually made to proceed with the proposal. "I hope this doesn't create a situation that my heirs will regret, but we live between Scylla and Charybdis. We cannot afford to wait for them to devour us - we must take our chances and build for the future."

In the Free Worlds League, the Parliament met to discuss the issue at great length. The Minister of Foreign Affairs took no official stance on the issue, and MPs debated several proposed amendments for a potential counter-offer to the Hegemony. However, when it became clear that the Hegemony was not interested in negotiations, a rather tentative compromise plan of giving them a small number of of worlds near the border was debated. The vote looked to be very slightly in favour, though a speech in support of the plan from the Minister of Defense was enough to guarantee its success.

In the Lyran Commonwealth, Robert Marsden's original response was quite tentative. While he was not generally a man who waffled on important decisions, he spent many days mulling over the decision. Eventually, he resorted to calling an aged Jaqueline Angler out of retirement for a discussion. Echoing their earlier discussion of "making the Archons see reason", Angler again discussed her materialistic theory of naval warfare, and made a strong case for acceptance of the treaty. In the end, a chance comment that led to a discussion of making them true "Commonwealth worlds" was what tipped the scales - unhappy with the factional warfare of the past few years, Marsden agreed to establishing several jointly-owned worlds, but only those within a single jump of at least two of the old pre-Lyran realms, to encourage a more diverse pool of settlers.

2381
Continued aid from the Marian Hegemony to conquered Lothian worlds was resulting in the Lothian populace continuing to slowly warm up to the Marian government. While the rural miners remained irascible, the youth had never known any other government, and the bulk of society was starting to accept O'Reilly rule. The decision in 2381 to give the formerly Lotharian planets full representation in the Marian Senate was a strong signal of goodwill that the Lothian populace responded well to. Malicious compliance effectively stopped, and a new Army regiment was successfully raised entirely from Lothian volunteers.

2382
Margaret Cameron had been diagnosed with cancer in 2380, and by 2382 it had become very serious. While she was expected to survive for a while longer, her energy levels and ability to cope with the stresses of office had fallen too low for her to continue as Director-General in good conscience. As such, she resigned and nominated her eldest son Raymond as her successor, to which the Terran High Council readily agreed.

2383:
Raymond Cameron's foreign policy proved much more aggressive than his mother's. A minor trade dispute that had been brewing with the Federated Suns, combined with them being the only nation to refuse participation in the Terran terraforming projects, turned to saber-rattling in 2383. After a Federated Suns customs inspector refused to allow a Terran DropShip to land at Kentares, the Terrans dispatched the Eighth Fleet under Admiral Avasarala to escort a Kentares-bound convoy and guarantee that it could land without interference.

Eighth Fleet consisted of 2 Dreadnoughts, 8 Black Lions, 4 Essexes, and 4 Bonaventures, and was intended to be somewhat less threatening than the massive Second Fleet out of Terra Firma. However, the 52 WarShips of Second Fleet were sent on a "scheduled logistics exercise" to Tigress, to allow them to provide support if needed without being too obviously imposing. Word of the Terran fleet preceded them somewhat, and when Paul Davion heard of the Terran move, he was outraged by Raymond Cameron's belligerence. While he knew as well as any the dangers of tangling with a nation as gigantic as the Terran Hegemony, he was not willing to allow them to simply send a fleet into his space unopposed. Word went out to the fleet commanders across the Suns - a fight might be brewing in Kentares, and they needed to bring all possible strength to the front immediately. While true command circuit routes had not been set up across the whole nation, the reserve fleet at Delevan set out immediately, and the covering forces on the Terran border had already begun concentration in anticipation of a conflict. Fortunately, the fleet facing the Capellan front was based far enough north to reach the battle in time, though most of the units on the Draconis front would take nearly three months to arrive from Fairfax. Additional reinforcements of fighters and DropShips were brought by civilian transport as well, substantially increasing the Davion fighter force.

The confrontation started out small, as these things go. The Terrans arrived in-system and began burning towards Kentares IV, deployed in a shell surrounding the civilian craft. When challenged by the commander of the local recharge station, Admiral Avasarala informed him that the Terran ships would be permitted to land and trade freely, as was the right of all nations, though she agreed to take the Davion protest "under advisement". Additional challenges were regularly issued daily, and were just as regularly dismissed or ignored. When the fleet was a day from the planet, civilian leadership stopped issuing the challenges, and an aged Admiral Hasek started issuing them instead. While this caused some consternation among the Terrans, as they had seen no sign of military presence in system, they ignored it just as routinely. However, to cover their bases, they sent one Bonaventure ahead, accelerating instead of decelerating, to gather intelligence on what might be lurking in planetary orbit.

When the Bonaventure neared the planet, ten hours later, it became obvious that the Federated Suns had been busy. A majority of the fleet was in orbit - one Crucis, two Galahads, two Robinsons, and six Albions were assembled to face the eighteen Terran units. On paper, this arrangement appeared to favour the Terrans. Their fleet out-massed the Davions by over half, and had substantially more damage potential. However, the Suns ships were far more heavily armoured, all save the Crucis were more mobile than their Terran foes, and because of a quirk of the Terran fleet composition, their support craft strength was grossly inferior to their enemies. The Terran fleet did not have even a single DropShip(aside from the civilian craft they were escorting), and only possessed four squadrons of fighters, one of which was engaged in a high-speed flyby of the planet. The Federated Suns were known to have emphasized smaller craft, conversely, and were estimated to carry twenty squadrons of fighters in their ships alone, plus over two dozen DropShips. While the Bonaventure could not tell what sort of DropShips were in use, or what defences might be based on the planet, it was clear that this was a substantial force.

However, the Terrans were committed to seeing their mission through. Admiral Avasarala was not one to fall apart under pressure, and she intended to carry out her mission regardless of opposition. Her fleet was probably superior to the opposition overall, and intelligence analysis had estimated that the Suns were more likely to bluster than to actually risk war with the Hegemony. However, their intelligence was in error - Hasek was as much of a fighter as she, and Paul Davion's orders had been clear. He was only to let them land if he was certain that fighting them successfully was impossible. And so, when six hundred fighters entered space laden with missiles, and forty DropShips spread out in advance of the fleet as a screen, the move was no bluff. A final challenge was issued, ignored as the previous twelve had been, and the fight began.

Analyst's reports had told the Terran fleet what a modern missile salvo looked like, but the reaction on seventeen bridges when over a thousand missiles were launched at the Terran fleet was still shock. Terran ECM proved effective and drew some of the missiles away, and the massed dual-purpose point defence cannons of the Black Lions killed scores more. But while Hasek's previous fights had been against nations with massive point defence installations, the Terran point defence was intended to be a final layer after the screening DropShips and fighters had cleared most of the missiles away, and their fleet had no such screen. Over eight hundred missiles successfully completed their attack run, and the result was instant carnage. The missiles had been targeted at four of the Black Lions, and the lack of defence meant that this was far too tight a targeting spread - the ships were so thoroughly blown apart that over three hundred of the missiles wound up attacking no more than expanding clouds of debris. To add insult to injury, a turret from the THS Gargoyle was blown clear and flew straight into the Bonaventure-class THS Cochran, causing tremendous damage to the light ship and blinding its primary sensor array.

However, despite their shocking losses, the Terrans fought on, and they fought well. They were as agile as their opponents when operating as a fleet, and their weapons had a generally longer range, so they attempted to hold the range open slightly to take advantage of their superiority at range. Naval lasers attacked Davion fighters, and the missile tubes of the remaining Black Lions started attempting to pick apart the DropShip screen by sending barrages far too large for any DropShip's point defence to withstand against any of the small ships which dared to close the range. Meanwhile, over a hundred gigantic cannons opened up against the Galahad-class FSN Percival. The Galahad class was one of the most heavily armoured ships in the known universe - second only to the Crucis beside her - but no armour made by humans could withstand that battering for long. Within two minutes, over a dozen compartments were open to space and three of her heavy turrets had been taken out of the fight. As the gaping wound in her side grew, the Percival's enemies focused their fire at it, and despite the best efforts of her crew to evade the incoming fire, one shell struck true. The ship's primary missile magazine detonated, and while the Percival had fired herself mostly dry, there was still more than enough explosive power there to shatter the ship and kill most of her crew.

But the Percival did not die alone. As she was being reduced, the FSN had been busy. The handful of Cameron fighters had been swatted from the sky contemptuously by the massed fire from Barracuda tubes, and Admiral Hasek was focused destroying the heavy Terran ships, with their massed anti-fighter defences, as quickly as possible. And much as not even the Percival could survive a whole fleet's firepower focused upon her, the Black Lions and Dreadnoughts, with less than half the armour, were doomed as soon as they fell beneath an enemy's guns. The Simurgh had died and the Medusa was a limping wreck by the time the Percival exploded, and fire was shifting to the Dreadnought. Meanwhile, the fighters were focusing their fire on the lightly armoured Bonaventures, where their small cannons could still have a chance to breach a WarShip's armour, and the damaged Cochran was also dispatched rapidly by the swarm of light units.

As the Dreadnought fell under the Davion guns, the cohesion of the Terran fleet began to falter. Admiral Avasarala was flying her flag on Dreadnought, and the ship's communication systems suffered especially badly under the fire. Instead of the brutally effective focused fire of the early engagement, the battle turned into an ugly dogfight on the Terran side, as each ship began engaging their own targets. This was something of a mixed blessing - the division of incoming fire meant more FSN ships needed to move evasively, which made their fire somewhat less effective. The Essex-class Wasp also landed a devastating hit on the Robinson through a fighter bay that had carelessly been left open, which ruined her flight deck and caused terrible secondary explosions of fighter fuel and cannon ammunition. However, the damage was not accumulating quickly enough to take any substantial number of guns out of the action, and the Davion fleet remained as focused as ever. And as the coordination of the Terran fleet faltered, so too did her tenuous web of anti-fighter and anti-missile defences.

The hull of the Dreadnought was as old as any ship in space, but those years had not weakened it. The ship was rightfully a legend - the first true WarShip, the flagship of Admiral McKenna's fleet which had created the Hegemony, and still a powerful and effective battleship. Her hull proved as strong as her name, withstanding cannon shells and missile barrages as well as any ship that had ever taken fire. But this legend could die just like any other ship. And slowly, but surely, she began to falter. Her turrets were smashed, her jump sail ruined, her fuel bays vented to space, and her sick bay took an especially cruel hit from an armor-piercing missile that killed dozens of wounded crew members. After endless minutes of pounding, she could fight no more. Her fusion engine was losing containment, and her crew rushed to the lifeboats. Most made it, but Admiral Avasarala refused to go until her whole crew was evacuated, and the ship did not have nearly that much time. In a brilliant flash, the reactor finally let go. And in that moment, two legends died.

Without their fearless admiral, and without many of their strongest ships, the Terran fleet did not feel able to continue the fight. Rear Admiral Forbes, in command of the Essex division, was the first to surrender, but within mere moments the rest of the fleet had followed. Negotiations over the fallout from the battle continued for months - the Terrans shocked by their horrible defeat but determined to maintain their trading rights, and the Suns elated by their victory but terrified of what would happen if the whole Terran fleet were to descend upon them.

In the end a compromise was reached, and one which might have satisfied both sides even before the twisted wreckage of Kentares taught them the risks of gunboat diplomacy. The Suns returned the ships and crews intact(save the crippled Medusa, whose damage was so severe that it was impractical to repair) and opened their nation to more commerce from foreign nations, while the Hegemony acknowledged the sovereignty of Federated Suns systems and disclaimed any right to reparations from the battle. Both sides issued statements regretting the excesses of their respective admirals(though neither was happy to be pinning the blame on their best-respected fleet commanders), and both promised to go forward in a spirit of peace and brotherhood. And, within three or four years, most of the respective fleets had even moved back from the shared border to their pre-Kentares dispositions.

Losses:
Terran Hegemony: 6x Black Lion, 1x Dreadnought, 1x Bonaventure, 18x fighter, moderate damage to fleet totalling $4B.
Federated Suns: 1x Galahad, 6x DropShip, 131x fighter, serious damage to fleet totalling $12B.

2384
A decade after the Skye declaration of independence, the wounds in the Lyran Commonwealth were slowly starting to heal. The healing was uneven - Marsden's native Donegal region and the urban middle classes were fairly fond of his regime, as it had resulted in an explosion of trade within the realm and brought them substantial prosperity. Conversely, the old Tamar regions were still bitter about several key planets being starved into submission, along with what was seen as mistreatment of Margaret Tamar. Despite their sullen resentment towards Marsden's rule, however, they were at least enjoying their profits from the newly improved trade situation.

2385
Raymond Cameron, Director-General of the Terran Hegemony, received the happy news that his new wife, Katherine McQuiston, was pregnant in late 2385. Unfortunately, Raymond Cameron was sterile. A nasty fight ensued in the Director-General's residence, which got even nastier when he realized that the father was none other than his own brother Brian. Despite the best efforts of his advisors to calm him down, he eventually arrested his own brother, and was talking of demanding a trial on charges of treason. Meeting with the High Council, he was apoplectic and refused any potential compromises or clemency, and worked himself into an outrageous fury. He eventually stalked off to a side room during this debate, but never returned - he was found dead, apparently of a heart attack brought on by his tremendous rage and frustration, and the government of the Hegemony paused to reflect on this extraordinary chain of coincidences.

Raymond left no obvious successor. The principle of dynastic descent was taken as the norm by this point, and his only close relative was in jail expecting treason charges. The President of the Terran Congress managed to name her son, Mitchell Dukirl, as Director-General Pro Tempore, but it was not to last. While Brian Cameron's lack of respect for marriage was no virtue, he was a known quantity, generally respected, and commanded the Cameron name(and, of course, he had already proven his ability to sire an heir). Within two months, Brian was installed as the new Director-General. Disinclined to continue his brother's aggressive policies, he worked instead to strengthen Terran defences and maintain his nation's economic power.

2386
The Draconis Combine had mostly digested the Rasalhaguers by the mid-2380s, and they began looking outward once again. The situation in Tamar seemed especially appealing to the Draconis generals. They expected that the Lyran Army would resist, but they also expected to have some support among the populace if they came to remove Marsden's crushing control of their worlds. In order to test the waters, a probing attack was planned targeting the world of Utrecht, which had been one of the worlds Marsden had starved into submission, and which was experiencing substantial anti-Lyran terrorist activity. Officially acting to assist "the rightful government of the planet", three Draconis regiments landed on the world, and scored major initial successes against the garrison. One battalion surrendered without even firing a shot when they found themselves surrounded by a reinforced regiment.

Unfortunately, the operation turned sour as soon as the orders to coordinate with the locals took hold - no less than four different groups were known to be operating on the planet, and most of them hated each other. One had even made a point of raiding the other three for weapons, as they were less capable of self-defence than the official Lyran armories. An initial Cabinet was set up, with heavy Draconis pressure on all involved to behave properly and work together, but within two days there had been three angry resignations and two assassination attempts on Cabinet ministers. And naturally, all four of the groups were all trying to position themselves as the victims of the others' betrayal. A week later, it was revealed that one of the assassination attempts had been a fake organized by the "victim", who was promptly arrested, and the Lyran relief force arrived. Spontaneous public demonstrations erupted against the fiasco that the new government had devolved into, and when a mob broke into the legislative building during a Cabinet meeting, the President's security forces were convinced it was yet another ploy and wound up shooting the Vice-President for being the supposed ringleader. A bloody fight ensued, and four ministers and thirteen guards died in the fighting. By the time the panicked ministers met the angry mob, it was clear that the "provisional government" could never function properly, and the Draconis forces organized an ignominious retreat, taking a few of the leaders off-world to protect them from "Lyran reprisals" but otherwise abandoning their broken tools to their fates.

2387
Richard Calderon was, by this point, far and away the longest-lived serving ruler of any realm. In his fifty-two years of power, he had taken the Taurian Concordat from a forgotten kingdom that was literally off the maps and turned it into a realm which managed to stand up, however briefly, to one of the great houses. But he was an old man, and not in the best of health, and the stress of his office had taken its toll on him. Late one evening, he suffered a massive stroke while reviewing yet more naval reports, and slipped into a coma from which he would not wake. He died four days later, and was succeeded by his son Daniel. Daniel was to drop the emergency powers his father had held since the first clash with the Davions, though his dedication to his realm was as strong as Richard's and he worked hard to protect it against any outside aggression.

2388
The the grand Memorial to the Fallen of Andurien was unveiled in downtown Jojoken, capital of the planet of Andurien, in June of 2388. The Capellan Confederation had used its decade and a half of peace to re-build the military, but knitting the nation together and turning it from a desperate wartime alliance into a true nation was proving a harder challenge. The victory at Andurien had been the truest expression of the "Capellan Spirit" that Chancellor Liao was trying to build, and with some government support, monuments to the battle were common even in smaller towns throughout the Confederation. The realm was not truly united, and the wounds of its old internal battles still showed sometimes. The Capellan Commonality resented that their original influence in the realm was waning, the Duchy of Liao was proud of their old Duke's new role but regretted that he seemed to be overly influenced by the other realms, and the merchants of St. Ives wished that the borders were not so heavily barricaded and that they could be freer to trade abroad. However, the populace as a whole was beginning to think of themselves as members of a true nation, who shared a true objective.

As the morale and common spirit of the Capellan populace grew, the wounds were healing. Chancellor Liao only hoped that they would heal rapidly enough for the nation to face its next struggle.

2389
The inner sphere had seen a boom in terraforming projects with the latest Terran push for new worlds to be made useful, and on April 8, 2389, the first of these new "jointly owned" worlds, the planet of Dabih in the Draconis Combine, was deemed sufficiently terraformed to stop major work and allow substantial colonial efforts to take over the world. Many of the initial colonists were members of the terraforming workforce, especially Azamis from North Africa, who had become enamoured of the planet's new climate. Most of the rest of the terraformers moved on to a follow-up project which attempted to turn the planet's principal moon Shakhi into an agricultural settlement.

Research
DC: $1,568m
FS: $40m
CC: $100m

TH: $4,144m
UHC: $1,114m
RWR: $482m
TC: $58m

TOTAL: $7,506m

The winner is the Rim Worlds Republic, gaining SRMs. All nations can now use NPPCs.

Budgets
CC: $92B
DC: $114B
FS: $100B
FWL: $107B
LC: $99B
MH: $13B

TH: $775B
UHC: $24B
RWR: $26B
TC: $12B, though no longer as a result of emergency spending.
« Last Edit: 03 August 2018, 14:16:23 by Alsadius »

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #581 on: 03 August 2018, 14:02:16 »
Daayum.  You do deliver.  The death of Dreadnought was so sad.  And ~6~ Black Lions?  Good lord.

Also.. thanks for using Jackie.  I was planning on writing her retirement in the next turn or two, but this is as good a place as any, and better than me having her die at her desk - which I was considering.

Also, totaled up the running budgets of all houses (total income turns 1-5)  Budgets modified to reflect cost of getting to 'standard' starting yards (3x1, 3x3)

DC:     535
FWL:   521
FS:     454
LC:     437
CC:    322


« Last Edit: 03 August 2018, 17:43:23 by marcussmythe »

Maingunnery

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #582 on: 03 August 2018, 14:20:50 »

That is some good writing, worth the wait.
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

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marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #583 on: 03 August 2018, 18:12:51 »
Saving Bad Weapons:

I know you were planning on giving the NGauss a little something to make them worthwhile.

Does the same apply to Mass Drivers, when they come around in 30 thrns or so?  :)

Vition2

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #584 on: 03 August 2018, 18:45:15 »
Dunno if it will work for you, but I've played around with the idea that NGauss are more accurate as ortillery than other weapons - they are for all intents and purposes "rods from god," comparatively aerodynamic and solid compared to other weapons.

My logic behind it is as follows for the other weapons:
For NPPCs and NLasers it comes to the change in medium - similar to how light refracts through water, and how every atmosphere is different, this causes a level of error in ortillery calculations.
For NACs it has more to do with the ammunition itself being less aerodynamic (obviously my own head-canon), causing it to be a more brute-force type of ortillery than NGauss.
Capital missiles are just fine for ortillery the issue comes down to amount of ammunition, NGauss are simply more efficient than capital missiles.

Just ideas, but do what you think works best for your game.

Smegish

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #585 on: 03 August 2018, 19:33:41 »
Fleet numbers (except for the TH as I don't know if the GM has already updated them for this turns casualties) have been updated on the Master Sheet.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #586 on: 03 August 2018, 20:16:45 »
Thank you!

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #587 on: 04 August 2018, 01:21:22 »
I try to use existing characters when I can do so reasonably - it makes it easier on my end, and it ties the plot together a bit. The nature of the game means they'll roll over quickly, but you've made Archer pretty compelling, so I wanted one more appearance from her.

Yes, the Cappies get the short end of the stick for sure. That'll shift somewhat over time, especially as the impact of initial yard distribution becomes less important, but they're the smallest and weakest overall even so. In canon they still do fine from that base, but it's definitely more of a challenge.

Re NGauss, my plan there was improved accuracy at long range. Keep the same brackets, but halve the penalties, in gameplay terms. I hadn't thought about mass drivers, but in some sense they're not really naval weapons - they go on ships, but they're WMDs. A NAC can blow up a building with one shot, but a mass driver will blow up a neighborhood.

I haven't changed the THN numbers to reflect their losses, so feel free to update that. Thanks again for your help.

Maingunnery

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #588 on: 04 August 2018, 05:25:09 »
Re NGauss, my plan there was improved accuracy at long range. Keep the same brackets, but halve the penalties, in gameplay terms. I hadn't thought about mass drivers, but in some sense they're not really naval weapons - they go on ships, but they're WMDs. A NAC can blow up a building with one shot, but a mass driver will blow up a neighborhood.
What about improved performance against bunkers during Orbital artillery?
Because I think that would likely have very focused damaged, thus good penetration.
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

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marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #589 on: 04 August 2018, 11:59:29 »
Id expect Mass Drivers to be quite the thing against Castles Brian.

Of course, the near 300 year delay, coupled with the whole ‘War Crime’ bit, are bith drawbacks.

My problem with Jaqueline Angler was I started her old.  Weve seen people not just fuctional as commanders, but piloting battlemechs, well into what we consider ‘geriatric’ ages IRL.  My next featured character will probably start out fresh outta flight school, and I’ll follow him for as long as fate allows.

Maybe a distaff branch of one of the major families in the Commonwealth?  An angry scion of a rebellious world?  Need to think on it.


Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #590 on: 04 August 2018, 16:35:45 »
I'd make Gauss weapons as effective as autocannons of the same damage. Autocannons aren't machine guns in this setting, they're big artillery shells like battleships IRL.

Also, it amuses me how the tactics of the setting resemble the middle Honor Harrington books, where missile pods dominate. I happen to be reading them now, so it's really jumping out at me. The Terrans did fairly well after the initial barrage(fewer kills, but similar total damage), but when the fleet starts out equally powerful and loses ~30% of its force in the first salvo, "fairly well" thereafter really isn't good enough.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #591 on: 04 August 2018, 17:15:48 »
I'd make Gauss weapons as effective as autocannons of the same damage. Autocannons aren't machine guns in this setting, they're big artillery shells like battleships IRL.

Also, it amuses me how the tactics of the setting resemble the middle Honor Harrington books, where missile pods dominate. I happen to be reading them now, so it's really jumping out at me. The Terrans did fairly well after the initial barrage(fewer kills, but similar total damage), but when the fleet starts out equally powerful and loses ~30% of its force in the first salvo, "fairly well" thereafter really isn't good enough.

Here, fighter-launched missiles serve the role of missile pods in HH, and to similar impact, though they lack the range advantage over other shipboard weaponry.   Small numbers of missile launchers with deep reloads will act like early HH missile combat.  I anticipate that a pure missile ship design could have much the same effect here as fighter swarms, with certain pros and cons.

Smegish

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #592 on: 06 August 2018, 04:36:53 »
So here we go:

Draconis Combine Turn 2390-2399


DCA Memorandum
2nd March 2390

1. Efforts continue to expand the yards above New Samarkand to the size needed for the Nagato Project. Design slightly altered to allow for new Particle Projector Cannon technology.
2. Sale of Kutais leave a gap in fleet capability, which shall be filled with the Tate-class, whose design has taken advantage of lessons learned by observation of fleet engagements across the Inner Sphere.
3. Atago still deemed equal to any ship of equal size or smaller, but inadvisable to engage a Crucis, Galahad or Monsoon single-handed.
4. Older Hegemony fleet vessels have demonstrated a grave weakness to fighters and missiles, an opening we can take advantage of just as the Federated Suns did. Unsure how newer Hegemony vessels would fare.

Sho-Sho Shinji Kurita

Tate-class Frigate

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Tate
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $4,733,908,000.00
Magazine Cost: $6,900,000.00
BV2: 26,605

Mass: 250,000
K-F Drive System: Compact
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
18 Capital Launcher Killer Whale
40 Naval Laser 35
120 AC 5
120 Machine Gun (IS)

Designed as the Kutai's replacement, the Tate (pronouced Tah-teh) or 'Shield' is designed to serve as the perfect escort for the larger Minekaze's or Atago's. Compared to the Kutai it is larger and a little slower, which was deemed acceptable as the 1.5Gs sustained thrust was quite sufficient to allow the vessel to keep pace with the fleet. It's capital-scale weapons consist of eighteen Killer Whale missile tubes, and forty Naval Lasers, though the lasers are the class-35s the DCA chose as their standard 40 years ago, and lack the range of the larger classes. These guns are primarily intended to deal with fighters, small craft and dropships, though it is also capable of finishing off a crippled enemy warship while it's sister vessels turn the guns onto more dangerous targets.

The Tate's standard scale guns are its real strength, with one hundred and twenty each of the DCA standard 5-class Autocannons and Machine guns liberally spread across the ship giving it excellent coverage from all angles. Any strike craft wandering into it's range is sure to regret that mistake for both seconds of its remaining life.

The long-term plan is to deploy one Tate with each Atago/Minekaze pair across Combine territory.

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Tate
Mass: 250,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 45,000
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 625
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact (7 Integrity) 113,125
Jump Sail: (4 Integrity) 43
Structural Integrity: 80 20,000
Total Heat Sinks: 2560 Single 2,215
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 10000 points 4,080
Fire Control Computers: 706
Armor: 208 pts Standard 400
Fore: 34
Fore-Left/Right: 36/36
Aft-Left/Right: 36/36
Aft: 30

Dropship Capacity: 0 0
Grav Decks:
Small: 2 100
Medium: 0
Large: 0
Escape Pods: 20 140
Life Boats: 20 140

Crew And Passengers:
34 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 340
61 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 427
104 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 728
132 Bay Personnel 924
0 1st Class Passengers 0
0 2nd Class Passengers 0
50 Steerage Marines 250

Bay #1: Fighters (36) - 6 Doors (Nose)
Bay #2: Small Craft (12) - 2 Doors (Aft)
Bay #3: Cargo (10,937 Tons) - 2 Doors
Small NCSS


Code: [Select]
# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
2 Killer Whale Nose 40 80 (8-C) Extreme-C 300
2 Naval Laser 35 Nose 104 70 (7-C) Long-C 1,400
20 AC 5 Nose 20 100 (10-C) Medium 160
20 Machine Gun (IS) Nose 40 (4-C) Short-PDS 10
4 Naval Laser 35 FR 208 140 (14-C) Long-C 2,800
20 AC 5 FR 20 100 (10-C) Medium 160
20 Machine Gun (IS) FR 40 (4-C) Short-PDS 10
4 Naval Laser 35 FL 208 140 (14-C) Long-C 2,800
20 AC 5 FL 20 100 (10-C) Medium 160
20 Machine Gun (IS) FL 40 (4-C) Short-PDS 10
8 Killer Whale LBS 160 320 (32-C) Extreme-C 1,200
10 Naval Laser 35 LBS 520 350 (35-C) Long-C 7,000
8 Killer Whale RBS 160 320 (32-C) Extreme-C 1,200
10 Naval Laser 35 RBS 520 350 (35-C) Long-C 7,000
4 Naval Laser 35 AR 208 140 (14-C) Long-C 2,800
20 AC 5 AR 20 100 (10-C) Medium 160
20 Machine Gun (IS) AR 40 (4-C) Short-PDS 10
4 Naval Laser 35 AL 208 140 (14-C) Long-C 2,800
20 AC 5 AL 20 100 (10-C) Medium 160
20 Machine Gun (IS) AL 40 (4-C) Short-PDS 10
2 Naval Laser 35 Aft 104 70 (7-C) Long-C 1,400
20 AC 5 Aft 20 100 (10-C) Medium 160
20 Machine Gun (IS) Aft 40 (4-C) Short-PDS 10

Ammo Rounds Mass
Killer Whale Ammo 180 9,000.00
AC 5 Ammo 12000 600.00
Machine Gun (IS) Ammo 120000 600.00

And the Budget:

Code: [Select]
Available Shipyards

Luthien 3/2/2/1
New Samarkand 4/1
Midway 1

Repairs

Maintanence 227125 12% 27255
Prototype Tate 1 4,734 4,732

Refits

Construction Unit Price
Shipyards New Sam 4>5 50,000 50,000
Stations Onsen 0 451 0
Warships Atago 0 9,339 0
Fubuki 0 7,241 0
Minekaze 0 6,102 0
Tate 6 4,734 28,404
Trojan 0 4,031 0
Jumpships 8 500 4000
Dropships 0 300 0
Fighters 724 5 3,620
Small Craft 246 10 2460
Research 1,529 1 1529
Loan
Total Spent 122000

Income Trojan Lease 2 1000 2000
Marian Loan 1 1000 1000
Kutai Sale 5000
Remaining 0


Future Income
Yard Loan 1000/Turn 3 Turns left
Kutai Sale 5000/Turn 3 Turns left

Code: [Select]
End Turn In Service
Warships Atago 9 84051
Fubuki 3 21723
Minekaze 9 54918
Tate 6 28404
Trojan 2 8062
Stations Onsen 20 9020
Jumpships 38 19000
Dropships Small 32 9600

Fighters 3820 19100
Small Craft 770 7700
Total 261578

Maintenance 12% 31389.36

Fleet Complement Fighters 1332
DropShips 24
Small Craft 360

Station Complement Fighters 720
Small Craft 240

Deployment

Steiner Front      Atago-class       – Atago, Chokai, Aoba
         Minekaze-class   - Minekaze, Yukikaze, Yayoi
         Tate-class      - Luthien, New Samarkand, Pesht
         Trojan-class      - Sinister

Davion Front      Atago-class      - Takao, Furutaka, Myoko
         Minekaze-class   - Hayate, Hakaze, Mikazuki
         Tate-class      - Benjamin, Galedon, Dieron
         Trojan-class      - Insidious

Cameron Front    Atago-class      - Kashima, Maya, Nachi
         Minekaze-class   - Shikinami, Satsuki, Okikaze
         Trojan-class      - Iga

Fleet Reserve      Fubuki-class      - Fubuki, Ibuki, Yudachi   

Fleet Reserve based at New Samarkand, guarding the newly constructed yards.

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #593 on: 07 August 2018, 01:43:32 »
A size 5 yard? Nice.

And the funny thing about the Terran fleet is that their newer ships are actually a lot worse against fighters - Dreadnought and Black Lion are their only designs with serious light weaponry. That may change this turn, however.

Smegish

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #594 on: 07 August 2018, 02:08:42 »
They do pack DS and fighters though, unlike many of the older ships

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #595 on: 07 August 2018, 09:44:07 »
Arrgh.   Want to do some more fluff, but cant find a voice that I like.  Also not sure if CNO/First Lord, again, or someone else. 

May invent a meaningless (on our scale) anti-pirate action, or send a fresh pilot to flight school, or something.  If I cant find anything, Ill do a turn without fluff

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #596 on: 07 August 2018, 12:02:37 »
 Oddly, they're building the Quixote in bulk because of corruption in their canonical government, but I think that's the best ship they have for this role. Six collars allows the missile defence to be carried to battle, a dozen fighters is at least not embarrassing, and they have both enough Barracuda launchers to defend themselves and enough WS/KW to swamp a target's missile defences, especially if they work in numbers. It's still a weak design, but it's better for this kind of fighting than even the Black Lion (which I was previously thinking of as their best ship until I realized the horrible weakness in support craft).

As for finding a voice, a navy head is natural, but having a low ranking sailor commenting on the new CNO's policy could be fun too.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #597 on: 07 August 2018, 12:42:11 »
Oddly, they're building the Quixote in bulk because of corruption in their canonical government, but I think that's the best ship they have for this role. Six collars allows the missile defence to be carried to battle, a dozen fighters is at least not embarrassing, and they have both enough Barracuda launchers to defend themselves and enough WS/KW to swamp a target's missile defences, especially if they work in numbers. It's still a weak design, but it's better for this kind of fighting than even the Black Lion (which I was previously thinking of as their best ship until I realized the horrible weakness in support craft).

As for finding a voice, a navy head is natural, but having a low ranking sailor commenting on the new CNO's policy could be fun too.

I'd want a LOT of Quixote's before I wanted to trade missiles and shoot down fighters in the face of the Fed Suns Fighter Doctrine - much less one like the DC, CC, or LC.

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #598 on: 07 August 2018, 17:16:42 »
I'd want a LOT of Quixote's before I wanted to trade missiles and shoot down fighters in the face of the Fed Suns Fighter Doctrine - much less one like the DC, CC, or LC.

Fortunately, the special national power for the Hegemony is "Build A Lot Of", so they could probably manage it.

And who says they'll only ever fight the Feddies?

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #599 on: 07 August 2018, 17:27:29 »
They could build unarmed ships and win by setting them on fire and ramming.

 

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