Author Topic: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn  (Read 140607 times)

Stormlion1

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #390 on: 08 February 2021, 15:25:01 »
They just need a guiding hand. Bar none, they just need to take some notes from the Ghost Bears, Wolves and Nova Cats.

 Even after the Burrock fiasco, the Spirits had roughly 5 Galaxies left, combined with the Ravens limited ground forces, easily 10 Galaxies of ground troops.

Going by the amount of damage the Spirits did during the Burrock Absorbtion and the WoR the Blood Spirits were pretty nasty in the field. Enough that I would have put them up against any other Clan one on one.
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Wolf72

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #391 on: 08 February 2021, 19:23:39 »
One of their biggest Achilles heal moments (according to Crusader Clans or WoR, can't remember which) was the loss of many more senior/independent minded officers, those that would adapt to a changing situation.

'Course we all know that we would not suffer those drawbacks!

someone mentioned many lower caste were washed out of the warrior program ... If in the IS they would totally be ready to pick up salvage and get back in the game.
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Terminax

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #392 on: 09 February 2021, 09:04:48 »
I fell down a deep rabbit hole (research/citing needs) in making sure I could back my arguments, and my to-be post has grown into a small document. I'm going to end up breaking it down into a couple or trio of posts at this rate. Anyways, I haven't forgotten about it - I just got derailed by getting some much needed work after being locked down since Christmas over the plague. So Wednesday, I should be free again. Maybe a post tonight, if everything wraps up quick.

Warship

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #393 on: 11 February 2021, 12:30:14 »
Lots of great ideas out there.

If the Spirits took the Cats' slot as a reserve Clan, here is what I see:

1. The Spirits with their 'hidden' Galaxies, besides turning heads in the Homeworlds, behave differently than the Jaguars on the planets assigned.  Resource poor, they work with the former Combine population to increase production across the board.  Done correctly, they might be able to win over the non-Japanese population who had resented the Combine.

2.  The Spirits bring in their two known allies, the Mandrills and Cobras.  Based on the Wolves bringing in the Horses, I see each Clan receiving two systems with, of course, a small Spirit force taking notes.  The Cobras, given their religious beliefs, are more tolerant towards their conquered planets populations, as long as they behave.  Assuming this is successful, the Spirits and Mandrills follow suit.  At this point, the Jaguars notice and maybe follow suit as well.

3.  With their small fleet, the Spirits must figure out something and contract with both the Sharks and Ravens for transport and maintenance creating a potential situation where each Clan receives a part or its own system to govern reducing Spirit garrisoning costs freeing up troops for the frontlines.

4.  The Jaguars are ticked, but realize the Spirits have hit upon something sending out feelers to the rest of the Homeworld Clans. The rest of the Homeworld Clans, seeing what has happened between the Spirits, Mandrills, Cobras, Sharks, and Ravens, agitate in the Council and begin approaching the rest of the Invading Clans.  Deals are hammered out (mostly out fear of being left behind or vulnerable) and suddenly every Clan has a presence in the IZ.  The IZ now looks like a map of Germany from the Middle Ages.

5.  That said, the Bears and maybe the Wolves do not bite as deep.  Their holdings stay mostly in one piece forcing the other Clan IZ's to take the heat.  At Luthien, the IS forces take hideous losses and maybe Luthien falls.  Even with Wolf's Dragoons, I think the combined forces from the Jaguars, Spirits, with elements of the Cobras, Mandrills, Sharks, and Ravens would prove overwhelming unless Hanse commits more to the table.

6.  Tukayid turns into a crapshoot at this stage.  If Luthien had fallen, the lessons learned by the Clans there would be discerned by the rest of the Clans.  End result, I doubt the offer from Comstar for a proxy battle at Tukayid would be made.  Instead, Comstar redoubles its efforts to boost warship production throughout the IS and at Terra.  Planetary bombardments of troops become regular, along with Jumpship  and shipyard destruction. 

7.  Eventually, the IS sends out a last chance task force which makes its way to the Clan Homeworlds and begins nuking each one in turn until the task force is destroyed.  At word of this, Clan Warships in the IS begin the indiscriminate bombarding of major population centers everywhere they can, even hitting FWL, CC, and FS planets.

8.  Billions are now dead.  Countless economies are ruined.  Knowledge across the board is lost.  Welcome back to the early days when a small Jumpship with only a Union-class Dropship could conquer a planet.

Wolf72

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #394 on: 11 February 2021, 18:00:44 »
Nice list! ... it went to hell in a hand-basket quick, but "them's the apples"
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truetanker

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #395 on: 11 February 2021, 20:26:26 »
And the Marians conquer the sphere...

Until those Niopians show up and ruin a good day!  xp

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Stormlion1

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #396 on: 12 February 2021, 10:12:14 »
Something I do see is the Spirits treating the populations far differently than the Jaguars did. The Jaguars were far more heavy handed in there treatment. In many ways the stratified Combine society would easily adapt to the Clan caste system. In many regards the Combine citizenry would be treated better under the Blood Spirits than they were under the Combine.
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CJC070

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #397 on: 12 February 2021, 18:29:24 »
In many regards the Battle of Luthien may have triggered the Blood Spirits abandoning the clans.  The warriors would have seen civilians putting themselves in harms way to stop them similar how their own population is trained.  They would have also seen the Edo massacre first hand and thought that the Clans have truly fallen from the pedestal they stood on. 

Oddly if that occurred the way I envisioned they would have been more stronger than the Nova Cats post Adjuration.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #398 on: 13 February 2021, 16:10:26 »
Something I do see is the Spirits treating the populations far differently than the Jaguars did. The Jaguars were far more heavy handed in there treatment. In many ways the stratified Combine society would easily adapt to the Clan caste system. In many regards the Combine citizenry would be treated better under the Blood Spirits than they were under the Combine.

I do see the potential for this to happen if a savvy officer or khan was handling this as the close knit spirit society is I believe pretty harmonious. However as they have not ever had to manage large territory or populations before I could also see them fall into the jags “ shut up and work harder” mode

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #399 on: 13 February 2021, 16:12:32 »
 
...
Oddly if that occurred the way I envisioned they would have been more stronger than the Nova Cats post Adjuration.

If they did anything other than choose to get wiped out on Tukayyid they would be in a better position.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #400 on: 13 February 2021, 16:13:05 »
In many regards the Battle of Luthien may have triggered the Blood Spirits abandoning the clans.  The warriors would have seen civilians putting themselves in harms way to stop them similar how their own population is trained.  They would have also seen the Edo massacre first hand and thought that the Clans have truly fallen from the pedestal they stood on. 

Oddly if that occurred the way I envisioned they would have been more stronger than the Nova Cats post Adjuration.

Re: luthien do you think the spirits would have demanded to revise the bid once the combined brought in the Mercs?

Stormlion1

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #401 on: 13 February 2021, 19:10:18 »
Honestly I dont see the Spirits joining the Jaguars in invading Luthien. They would see it as a waste of rescources and would take advantage of the Jaguars invading that world to strike at worlds they could use. Especially as they would know the Jaguars might stab them in the back after that world fell.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #402 on: 13 February 2021, 19:55:47 »
Honestly I dont see the Spirits joining the Jaguars in invading Luthien. They would see it as a waste of rescources and would take advantage of the Jaguars invading that world to strike at worlds they could use. Especially as they would know the Jaguars might stab them in the back after that world fell.

But at that time especially the invasion has devolved into an ever escalating flex off. The jags and nova cats went after a bigger capital world because the wolfs had already netted one right?

Warship

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #403 on: 13 February 2021, 21:46:49 »
Ulric new how to provoke the Jags.  With the fall of Tamar, Alshain, and Rasalhague, the Jags had something to prove.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #404 on: 14 February 2021, 08:20:20 »
Ulric new how to provoke the Jags.  With the fall of Tamar, Alshain, and Rasalhague, the Jags had somep

Haw and what they proved is they could be baited!

Wolf72

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #405 on: 14 February 2021, 08:38:03 »
Haw and what they proved is they could be baited!

Over and over again, at that.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #406 on: 14 February 2021, 09:20:00 »
Over and over again, at that.

Honestly it is why I kind of like them and the mandrills now they are very reliably cartoony!

Stormlion1

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #407 on: 14 February 2021, 10:59:56 »
Ulrich disliked the Jaguars intensely. I could have seen Ulric though rather than manipulating the Spirits like he did the Jaguars trying to use them to counter Jaguar ambitions. He would know there strength wasnt up to really invading the Sphere but would have used them as garrison troops for the Jaguars. The Jsguars bleed while the Spirits rolled up smaller worlds and garrisoned important worlds.
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Kit deSummersville

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #408 on: 17 February 2021, 12:39:42 »
2.  The Spirits bring in their two known allies, the Mandrills and Cobras.  Based on the Wolves bringing in the Horses, I see each Clan receiving two systems with, of course, a small Spirit force taking notes.  The Cobras, given their religious beliefs, are more tolerant towards their conquered planets populations, as long as they behave.  Assuming this is successful, the Spirits and Mandrills follow suit.  At this point, the Jaguars notice and maybe follow suit as well.


This is going to get the Spirits Absorbed or Annihilated, thumbing their nose at the Clan Council who created the trials to determine which clans could participate in the invasion.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #409 on: 17 February 2021, 15:38:03 »
This is going to get the Spirits Absorbed or Annihilated, thumbing their nose at the Clan Council who created the trials to determine which clans could participate in the invasion.

Was it only the ilkhan who could activate reserve clans?

2ndAcr

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #410 on: 17 February 2021, 15:47:21 »
 I say sort of a grey area. Jade Falcons had Raven warships, probably with crews.

 Wolves made a deal with Hells Horses, but later on. Not sure how bringing in Mandrill and Cobra's would go over.

Stormlion1

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #411 on: 17 February 2021, 16:26:57 »
Was it only the ilkhan who could activate reserve clans?

Pretty sure during the actual Invasion it was only him who could do so. Though like the Jade Falcons I can see ways around it like they did with the extra warships. The Snow Ravens never actually held any worlds but took a support role. Could the other Clans have done so? Possibly. Could the Blood Spirits gone to Ulric and petitioned to bring in other Clans to support them? oh yes. And Ulric probably would have OK'd it.
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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #412 on: 17 February 2021, 22:19:47 »
Just off the top of my head, the whole Reserve Clan activation issue could be sidestepped if the Spirits treated it as a contract bid, like with the Cobras and Burrocks/Adders and the Tanite worlds.
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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #413 on: 18 February 2021, 16:08:30 »
Was it only the ilkhan who could activate reserve clans?

The reserve clans were the Steel Vipers, Nova Cats, and Diamond Sharks were the reserve clans, or the Steel Vipers, Blood Spirits and Diamond Sharks in this version. The IlKhan was the one to activate the reserve clans, which was a slight to the clans they were 'relieving'.
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Wolf72

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #414 on: 18 February 2021, 19:49:23 »
I'm sure before we invited guests there would be a trial for it.  Depending on the Ilkhan's disposition those trials be nigh impossible to a fair fight.  Or the results of the trial would determine what level of involvement an invited clan would get.  I could see Ulric liking this possibility, it would tick off the Falcons to no end (who would go after the Wolves), Jaguars would be equally angry but react completely differently (target the Spirits, and Kerensky willing, find more than their match).

The whole process may destabilize the invasion, actually save the Jaguars, prevent a counter invasion to the home worlds (Still would expect some sort of Clan Civil War), and give the IS a wider target selection thereby ensuring they fight amongst themselves as much as they fight with the Clans.

It is all fanboy talk, but fun to think about.
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Stormlion1

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #415 on: 18 February 2021, 20:24:43 »
The one thing it would change is that the Second Star League wouldnt find a ally among the Blood Spirits like they did the Nova Cats. Would have made the Jaguar Annihilation a far different story.
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Wolf72

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #416 on: 18 February 2021, 22:48:25 »
I bet we would have forced them to follow some basic clan protocols though. (Was an early Jaguar fan, before the fiction turned them into some sort of rabid attack cats ... or before I at least knew about them being rabid attack cats).
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Guardian11

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #417 on: 22 February 2021, 18:08:14 »
One thing to note about the Ravens is that they were specifically barred from participating in the Revival Trials, because their touman was deemed too small to effectively fight in the Inner Sphere and protect their Homeworld holdings. So, it could very well be that, because they were never defeated in the Revival Trials the Clans deemed it acceptable for the Ravens to volunteer some of their Warships to supplement the fleets of the Invading Clans.

Though, the Blood Spirits as a reserve Clan does open up the interesting prospect of the Ravens as traditional allies of the Spirits and the fact that the Ravens became increasingly dissatisfied with their arrangement with the Falcons might very well have shifted their Warships from helping the Falcons to aiding the Blood Spirits, after the Spiritis activation, who may have given the Ravens more independence in their operations than the Falcons likely gave them, and given them a better resource sharing deal than the Falcons.

Stormlion1

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #418 on: 22 February 2021, 21:19:04 »
I like the idea of the Snow Ravens and the Blood Spirits working together as part of the invasion. Even in the Snow Ravens Ravens Exodus to the Inner Sphere they would have done well to invite the Blood Spirits to join them. Could you imagine the Snow Raven/Blood Spirit Fleet arriving in the Periphery together looking to settle a new home and finding the Outworlds Alliance? For one the two Clans working together would have reclaimed many of that state's abandoned worlds for there own.
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Trajan Helmer

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Re: Clan Blood Spirit: Get Off Our Lawn
« Reply #419 on: 15 March 2021, 11:19:26 »
I see something different. A mixed bag, if you will. One of the biggest problems I've always seen in fan theories is the certainty that while Event A (in this case, the Spirits invading instead of the Cats) may be different in this new timeline, that Events B (Luthien) & C (Tukayyid)will surely happen exactly as they did in the real canon. Maybe, maybe not.

We know the Spirits had excellent relations with their lower castemen, going so far as to arm them to protect the Clan itself. Given the massive overreactions of the Jaguars in canon, there is a strong probablity the former Combine citizens will realize the differences between the two Clans. Cooperation with the Spirits, upon seeing the way the strict but fair Spirits behave towards their own people, bodes better for them than the likes of rebellion and Edo, which would serve as a signal lesson. The already strict lives of the people under the Combine may be blase' to their new master's ways, even though their lives will change in the major sense as Clan government begins to descend around them. Wheedling may become common as the people adjust to the Clan meritocracy and look for advantage. The fact that it won't work will breed some resentment but it's still better than living under Jaguar rule. The people could end up policing themselves to avoid the worst of what Clantech weaponry can do when they try to become uppity.

Militarily, the Spirits are stronger technology wise than any IS House or merc force. Despite so much of their touman being of older tech, it is deadly effective in their expert hands. We see in the canon timeline Spirits destroying seven galaxies of Burrock/Adder troops to the loss of about five of their own. That's a hella showing considering both of those Clans were richer in resources and Clantech than the Spirits. They will stumble as they adjust to the Inner Sphere but will annihilate any irregular opposition just like the Falcons, Wolves, Vipers, etc., did. It's nigh impossible for pistols to beat rifles except in limited scenarios. Once the Spirit leadership has a problem figured out, I can see them doing well against any opposition.

The biggest problem will be the Spirits interClan relations which could threaten to bring everything down to a lower level of success. Once Jag/former Combine citizens see the Spirits treating their new citizens markedly different, the same agitations that have caused the Jaguars problems in the past with lower castemen will surely rise. I think the Spirits will receive support from the Wolves and Bears just to stymy the Jags but it'll cause waves in the water that will distract the BS leadership from more productive work. Of course, prior good relations with the Ravens, Mandrills, and Cobras could ameliorate this somewhat with contracts for resources to those Clans in exchange for logistical support. With the securing of several worlds, the Blood Spirits will have so many resources they won't be able to harness well them without help. As an Invader Clan (and having been the smallest Clan to this point) the Spirits will become very rich for their size and be able to upgrade their entire touman in size and capability within four generations while uplifting its allies as well. This would likely vault them into the top half or even third of the Clans in power rankings and influence. With a few more generations and savvy leaders, the entire Clan could move completely to the Inner Sphere more easily than the Bears did and become as powerful as any of the top Clans. Jealousy will always rise among rivals so this wouldn't be without cost. Anyone in the Homeworlds could attack the Spirits in a sense like Vipers did to the Falcons at the Wars of Reavings' start but the good money will always be on the Burrocks unless the Adders discover the same things they did in canon and Absorb them. But being in the Inner Sphere, I doubt the Spirits will worry too much with their newfound wealth and power. Heck, it may a sort of insouciance they treat the rest of the Homeworld Clans that provokes the Burrocks and/or Adders or Coyotes to attempt to divest them of thier Homeworld assets.

In the end, even with Clan events proceeding as they did in the canon timeline, the Spirits still stand a great chance of coming out on top, better than ever, than they were able to in the Kerensky Cluster.

amirite?
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