Register Register

Author Topic: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?  (Read 6073 times)

Boomer8

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 48
  • Caballeros Forever!
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #150 on: 05 February 2019, 16:06:37 »
I did not!

Almost does count with nuclear weapons!

Don't forget the horseshoes and hand grenades....
Victor W. Milan (1954-2018) Taken before he finished.

RoundTop

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1169
  • In Takashi We Trust
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #151 on: 05 February 2019, 16:48:19 »
Don't forget the horseshoes and hand grenades....

If weapons had addresses:

Bullets: Dear Mr. Target
Grenades: Dear Mr. Resident & Family
Mortars: To whom it may concern
Artillery: Dear grid coordinates
Nukes: To the residents of Townsville
No-Dachi has a counter-argument. Nothing further? Ok.
Demo team agent #772

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 31820
  • Divided States of SMASH
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #152 on: 05 February 2019, 16:50:10 »
Mass Drivers: All Y'all
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

massey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1898
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #153 on: 05 February 2019, 17:08:50 »
Mass Drivers: All Y'all

Only if the mass driver is from the South.  If they're from the Northeast, they're addressed as "All youse guys".

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14240
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #154 on: 05 February 2019, 17:45:49 »
Only if the mass driver is from the South.  If they're from the Northeast, they're addressed as "All youse guys".

And if it was fired from a cave in a asteroid it would be 'HEY YOU GUYS!'
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.

kaliban

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #155 on: 06 February 2019, 11:15:33 »
I am playing the scenarios of 3052 sourcebook and I am playing the underdogs (IS).

We are balancing the scenarios at BV points and I have been trying to keep a 1-1 ratio on mechs and complete the BVs with support vehicles and conventional infantry. I prefer fast vehicles with big guns (Saladins, for example) and use them soften the enemy bigger mechs - with lucky you get a rear torso hit that changes the balance of the game. Casualties are very high but it is working well specially when the Clan mechs engage in duels against the IS mechs and don't take the vehicles first. I assume that suicidal tactics make sense for IS under this scenario as long they are facing a far superior enemy. Against Battle armor I normally use LRMs and PPCs at medium/long ranges but they are much harder to hit than I imagined earlier.

For reference, you normally play with two times more units than the Clan player

truetanker

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5997
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #156 on: 10 February 2019, 18:02:02 »
May I suggest LPLs and Streaks for the BA / PBI and the lovely ML Spam that is the Hunchback-4P?

Not only do these work, but it's cheaper to use, but if you really want to humor... 2x Condor Davion supporting a pair of Condor Liao. 2x2 in the lance... 2 AC/5, 6 ML and 2 MGs per pair.

Only 2 tons of AC ammo and, I don't know if you do this but we do, remove most of the MG ammo to a few shots.... both to lose it in an ammo explosion but more for the : why again do I have to take the full amount when I didn't get in range to only see it explode?.

TT
Khan,Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse

That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

grimlock1

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1018
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #157 on: 11 February 2019, 12:48:19 »
May I suggest LPLs and Streaks for the BA / PBI and the lovely ML Spam that is the Hunchback-4P?

Not only do these work, but it's cheaper to use, but if you really want to humor... 2x Condor Davion supporting a pair of Condor Liao. 2x2 in the lance... 2 AC/5, 6 ML and 2 MGs per pair.

Only 2 tons of AC ammo and, I don't know if you do this but we do, remove most of the MG ammo to a few shots.... both to lose it in an ammo explosion but more for the : why again do I have to take the full amount when I didn't get in range to only see it explode?.

TT

Fighting Elementals in the 3050's can be a tough proposition. That 10+1 armor means you need Gauss or AC/20 hits to reliably stop single troopers. Depending on how much the dice hate you, you might need 6 is Lplas hits to kill one Toad.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Apocal

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 112
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #158 on: 11 February 2019, 13:01:15 »
Fighting Elementals in the 3050's can be a tough proposition. That 10+1 armor means you need Gauss or AC/20 hits to reliably stop single troopers. Depending on how much the dice hate you, you might need 6 is Lplas hits to kill one Toad.

Infernos are a better bet, easier to fit and only lose out one hex of range over IS LPLas, IIRC.

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 31820
  • Divided States of SMASH
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #159 on: 11 February 2019, 13:02:58 »
To me, a good way to deal with BA is to first hit them with a volley of small hits, such as from an LB-X or some SRMs. Put 1-3 damage into each suit, and suddenly LPLs and PPCs will kill them on a single hit, making them much easier to deal with. With some suits, this approach even makes them vulnerable to much smaller guns as well.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
There's no shame in designing customs, so long as you keep them private and wash your hands afterwards.

Sartris

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6681
  • Here for the Jokes
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #160 on: 11 February 2019, 13:05:35 »
Infernos are a better bet, easier to fit and only lose out one hex of range over IS LPLas, IIRC.

the -2 LPL bonus isn't as vital to hit toads, but you do lose out on that. on the other hand, an IS LPL can't one-shot elementals.

LPL: 1-3 hexes -2, 4-7 +0, 8-10 +2
SRM: 1-3 hexes +0, 3-6 +2, 7-9 +4

the SRM-6 is the most reliable for toad burning as 4+ gets you the three infernos to kill a battle armor. SRM-4 gets you a kill at 7+

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14240
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #161 on: 11 February 2019, 13:56:36 »
And if your SRM toters get a free shot at Elementals, the Clan commander has done something wrong.  Much as I love infernos and want to pack them at every chance, in universe/RP its supposed to be rare for them to be carried b/c of the volatile nature so that you should not see them in most battles.  AFAIK, that has not changed from the introduction of the Elemental to the IS up to the Compact war since we get that attitude in fiction.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.

Kit deSummersville

  • Precentor of Lies
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8870
  • The epicness continues!
    • Insights and Complaints on Twitter
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #162 on: 11 February 2019, 14:22:16 »
Depending on how much the dice hate you, you might need 6 is Lplas hits to kill one Toad.

Bane's Law: If it requires Hellbie rolls it isn't that bad in reality.
Looking for an official answer? Check the Catalyst Interaction Forums.

Freelancer for hire, not an official CGL or IMR representative.

Everyone else's job is easy, so tell them how to do it, everyone loves that!

Millard Fillmore's favorite BattleTech writer.

massey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1898
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #163 on: 11 February 2019, 14:41:13 »
LRMs are a decent option against toads.  You hit from well out of their range and the smaller clusters (2, 3, 4 points) may be just what you need to finish one off.  Kill two or three of them and by the time they get close enough to strike back, they are a lot less effective. Plus they’ll have some scattered damage, so larges and mediums can finish the job.

Sartris

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6681
  • Here for the Jokes
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #164 on: 11 February 2019, 15:04:13 »
the only problem with chipping away is that the clan mechs are chipping away with 10-15 point chunkers as they run in to gut you with ER mediums

the 10th point of armor is a good sign whoever designed them is a genuine jerkface

marcussmythe

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 765
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #165 on: 11 February 2019, 18:11:38 »
the only problem with chipping away is that the clan mechs are chipping away with 10-15 point chunkers as they run in to gut you with ER mediums

the 10th point of armor is a good sign whoever designed them is a genuine jerkface

Well, the 10th point of armor is a bit of a ‘tell’ for the overall design philosphy.  Much like ‘later released Army Books’ in Warhampster or ‘later world books’ in Rifts or later races in SFB, the clans show a lot of ‘okay, thats whats in the game already, how do i walk all over it/exploit the system to walk all over it without a challenge’

Consider the reaction of a playe group if someone showed up at their game groups table with a cool backstory for their custom faction that had the same relationship to the existing game that the clans did to the inner sphere.  And remember, BV does not exist.

Sabelkatten

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4893
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #166 on: 12 February 2019, 06:00:52 »
Note that the 10th point of armor was introduced after TRO3050... Originally, 10 points killed an elemental. (OK, technically it always had 10 points of armor. Originally destroying the armor put the BA out of action.)

Of course that still didn't help the IS LPL much. ::)

Anyway, when I've played against BA I've usually tried to stay away from them and shoot at the mechs for as long as possible, and then tried to take them out as quickly as possible with massed short-range firepower.

BloodRose

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 76
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #167 on: 12 February 2019, 08:45:28 »
I have thankfully never had the chance to fight Toads, but they are one of things that irks. Well, to be more precise, just how tough they are is what irks me. I could see maybe 8+1 points of armour, but 10+1 gives them the ability to tank a hit from a AC10 or a PPC, weapons that in fluff are incredibly devastating and powerful. I could see a Toad taking a Medium Laser hit like it was nothing, certainly, and even surviving a LL hit albeit with a slagged suit and nonfuntional systems, but taking a PPC or 6" HEAP shell to the face and walking away just feels too good.

If I was to redo the Toads then I would probably drop the armour down to 8+1, and let them have some vulnerabilities to 1 hit kills from powerful weapons.
The Marauder MAD-3r. A mech of perfection and beauty, a walking duellist and a monster on the offensive.
Or at least it would be if someone would stick more heatsinks in!

Sabelkatten

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4893
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #168 on: 12 February 2019, 11:56:53 »
Heh. When I tried to figure out the Elementals' stats right after the first book came out (when all we knew was "needs 10 damage to kill, small laser+SRM2") I figured a weight of about 3 tons each... ::)

Sartris

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6681
  • Here for the Jokes
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #169 on: 12 February 2019, 11:58:41 »
Harjel, baby

Church14

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #170 on: 12 February 2019, 14:35:45 »
Well, per my last game it turns out that Stackpoling an enemy cataphract does wonders to kill my own nearby battle armor.

Sartris

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6681
  • Here for the Jokes
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #171 on: 12 February 2019, 14:40:14 »
this is a level of petty panache i can get behind

Atarlost

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 191
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #172 on: 12 February 2019, 17:06:20 »
The +1 is the problem.  It also puts the kill threshold for lights just out of reach of the ISMPL.  The extra HP might be a balance improvement for PAL since it moves it from a MG/SRM to a SL kill, but for BA it just makes the Clans cheesier and they already reek like an entire year of Limburg's dairy production. 

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14240
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #173 on: 12 February 2019, 17:12:58 »
So the Amazon is cheese too since it matches the protection level?
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.

Greatclub

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 335
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #174 on: 12 February 2019, 21:10:39 »
Amazon doesn't carry more firepower than some light mechs.

there's an article in the fan articles section on fighting elementals and other power armor. Cluster hits then 10-pointers is a standard tactic, although a reverse from what we're used to.

Sartris

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6681
  • Here for the Jokes
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #175 on: 12 February 2019, 22:04:47 »
Some light mechs need to hit the gym

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14240
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #176 on: 12 February 2019, 22:44:15 »
Amazon doesn't carry more firepower than some light mechs.

Really?  The Med Recoilless Rifle loses 1/3 of the range while the Support PPC 1 one point lower and 1 hex further than MRR.  Most of the weapons options for the Elementals have half the ranges of the Amazon's two options.  Which leaves the Elemental only having 8 SRMs difference in a similar sized unit.

I guess 'some light mechs' Fireballs, since their MG loses a point of damage to half the Elemental options.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.

Greatclub

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 335
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #177 on: 12 February 2019, 23:22:27 »
was talking about the entire point. The amazon is powerful, but overshadowed by a 2-shot SRM10 and 5 small lasers - let alone 5 AP gauss and the missles
« Last Edit: 12 February 2019, 23:25:35 by Greatclub »

BloodRose

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 76
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #178 on: 12 February 2019, 23:50:22 »
The major problem with Elementals really comes with when they are introduced - in 3049 the IS has only regular infantry, and no real BA hunters.
The Marauder MAD-3r. A mech of perfection and beauty, a walking duellist and a monster on the offensive.
Or at least it would be if someone would stick more heatsinks in!

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14240
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Strategy for IS fighting Clans?
« Reply #179 on: 13 February 2019, 00:35:18 »
was talking about the entire point. The amazon is powerful, but overshadowed by a 2-shot SRM10 and 5 small lasers - let alone 5 AP gauss and the missles

For a adequate comparison its a 2 shot SRM8- nothing prevents 5 suit squads except faction flavor.  The Amazon's weapon hits 7 hexes for the same damage as the AP Gauss at 9- a 4 suit point would basically be a slow light mech with 2 Med Lasers and the two shot SRM8.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.