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Author Topic: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?  (Read 3154 times)

Robroy

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Re: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?
« Reply #90 on: 12 October 2018, 05:41:33 »
IIRC, Infernos are supposed to be rare & only the most debased of units would use them.

Snip.

Not sure where you got that. This is a universe where flamers are a thing and a mech was built around them. Don't know why infernos would be an issue, other than the mech carrying them bursting into flames.

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Empyrus

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Re: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?
« Reply #91 on: 12 October 2018, 09:05:26 »
Pretty sure some sources do indeed describe infernos as rare in usage at least.

Looking at Sarna's article on infernos, which seems to be based on TM and TO, infantry supposedly use infernos often due to their effectiveness against 'Mechs, while 'Mechs rarely mount infernos because they're hazardous to MechWarriors (presumably due to their lower heat-induced ammo explosion point).

SteveRestless

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Re: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?
« Reply #92 on: 13 October 2018, 12:21:20 »
Under the old BMR Rules, the Gargoyle Prime was hell on combat vehicles. all those pellets, all those missile hits, they were great for shaking apart a vehicle by crits, without even needing to breach the vee.  TW era rules are less kind to it, but with the right optional rules, it has a niche again. the Called Shot rules work great with it, not aimed shot, called shot. This slightly increases the difficulty to hit, but lets you roll on the punch table (or leg table or a side table) giving you a 1 in 6 chance of doming them. a few turns sustained buckshot and missiles, and you can rack up enough cockpit hits, to put the other mechwarrior to bed without even breaching the head armor.

The Gargoyle's Quirks as provided by the BMM help too. Stabilized arms let you run around without spoiling your murder shot.

Works even better with some of the SPAs available. I suspect Ulric, with the bonuses that "Blood Stalker" gives you, may have ended the ghost bear khans in this fashion.
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Sharkapult

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Re: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?
« Reply #93 on: 16 October 2018, 05:53:35 »
I forgot about the old partial cover rules too, the +3 to hit is tough to get around (-2 after the pellet bonus) but the pellets each getting 1in 6 to hit the head would scramble a lot of pilots. With a 0 or 1 gunnery that might be a rare time where you move in such a way to put your opponent into partial cover lol.

Hellraiser

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Re: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?
« Reply #94 on: 21 October 2018, 02:14:07 »
Not sure where you got that. This is a universe where flamers are a thing and a mech was built around them. Don't know why infernos would be an issue, other than the mech carrying them bursting into flames.

Old 3025 novels fluff IIRC.

Maybe a mention in MW1 or BMR about inferno rules.

But pretty sure they were semi frowned upon & only broken out in the most dire of circumstances or by barbarians, etc etc.

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Colt Ward

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Re: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?
« Reply #95 on: 21 October 2018, 02:18:21 »
Its actually in 3050 novels too . . . one of the POV characters on Nashur who commands a light hovertank lance is horrified to learn one of his subordinates loaded infernoes.  He had been blaming Sunny's forces for bringing them to the fight and burning down the village.
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Elmoth

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Re: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?
« Reply #96 on: 21 October 2018, 05:17:05 »
So it seems that it is a problem with collateral damage, not with smashing the enemy.

Robroy

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Re: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?
« Reply #97 on: 21 October 2018, 09:58:51 »
So it seems that it is a problem with collateral damage, not with smashing the enemy.

Sorry, do not mean to derail the thread so this will be my last fire related post.

Fire is fire. Does not matter if it is started with a flamer or inferno. I was under the impression that the reason they were disliked was because, in universe they were more volatile than standard SRMs. In game this was reflected in the additional heat related avoid ammo explosion rolls inferno ammo needed.

Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Way (Tao) to survival or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed"-Sun Tzu

"Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence"-Sun Tzu

Sabelkatten

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Re: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?
« Reply #98 on: 21 October 2018, 11:53:11 »
IIRC there were initially two reasons for not using infernos:

-They were dedicated anti-mech weapons (no effect on anything else).
-They were very expensive.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?
« Reply #99 on: 21 October 2018, 12:12:49 »
They have always been murder on tanks.  There wasn't much point in using them on infantry because everything murdered infantry under the old rules.

The general prohibition against using infernos on tanks was always A) they're volatile and much more prone to exploding than standard SRMs ad B) they indiscriminately start fires everywhere- if you're not trying to destroy the area, it's counterproductive.

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massey

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Re: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?
« Reply #100 on: 21 October 2018, 13:36:04 »
I started reading some of the really old Battletech novels a little while ago, ones I’d never bothered to read before.  Decision at Thunder Rift mentions that infernos are a commonly used infantry weapon, if you’ve got somebody crazy enough to get close enough to use them (apparently they are supposed to have a shorter range than regular SRMs in that novel), but mechs don’t normally carry them because they are so volatile.

The_Caveman

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Re: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?
« Reply #101 on: 30 October 2018, 11:11:21 »
I always play with floating criticals.

When facing 3025 IS 'Mechs with torso bomb ammunition bins, the Gargoyle Prime can be quite scary to deal with. Combine that with a higher-than-average frequency of head hits and some infernos to turn the screws on opponents who already have marginal heat management, and it can hold its own as a niche unit. I've seen more than one overconfident Marauder go kerblooey when struck by a lucky LB5X salvo.
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abou

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Re: Weird question: is the Gargoyle Prime actually good?
« Reply #102 on: 13 February 2019, 23:41:05 »
Just wanted to say that I got to experience this first hand. In a recent game, my Mauler's pilot got knocked unconscious after four head hits from a Uller Prime. Armor was depleted, but no internal damage. In fact, the only location that took a real beating was the right leg; the rest of the locations were at over 50% armor.

So it is not just hypothesis.

 

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