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Author Topic: Physical attacks and you...  (Read 3562 times)

Drewbacca

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Physical attacks and you...
« on: 08 September 2018, 07:27:53 »
I have to admit one of the reasons I still play mechs instead of infantry or vehicles ( other than my group keeps telling me I can't play mechs or vehicles) is I LOVE physicsm attacks. Either with a weapon or just a kick I love getting close and pummeling an enemy. It mademe wonder....


How many people out there are big users of physical attacks?

Sir Chaos

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #1 on: 08 September 2018, 07:36:31 »
*raises hand*

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Ruger

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #2 on: 08 September 2018, 08:21:13 »
Don't know that I really love physical attacks but they seem to love me...whether it be the time both I and my opponent tried kicks, both missed and then both of us failed our piloting checks to fall down ("I won't say a thing if you won't!"), or the time I got literally punched out of my cockpit by a double tap punch combo from a Banshee (GM ruled I needed boxcars to eject in time...and I rolled exactly what was needed)...

Of course there was another campaign where my Spider got behind a pristine Wolverine-6M...at the end of the round, thanks to a medium laser and two punches to the head, it was down...

And then in another game, I left an Axeman I had painted in dark green and black cameo hidden in some trees in 3D terrain, where my opponent lost track of it. He then proceeded to park an Emperor next to it and fired on another 'Mech...the physical portion of the round comes up and I call an attack...he asks with what? To which I respond (with a smile on my face as I remember), "The Axeman next to your Emperor." He looks more closely at the board and grimaces as he sees what I'm talking about...

 ;D

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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #3 on: 08 September 2018, 09:06:06 »
Let's just say I got a Berserker and have used it a couple times instead of my usual Assault the Awesome in my Inner Sphere style games..... oh and the TSM version too!

Haven't gotten to pair it with my Hachetman or Nightsky yet which makes me sad but that's the availability of games where I am.

DarkSpade

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #4 on: 08 September 2018, 09:37:08 »
I have a hatchetman I was fond of using for awhile.  I don't think I ever got in an attack with the hatchet. It's some great area denial since no one ever wants to get near it.  I finally pointed out that its damage was no better than a medium laser, but they kept on running away.  Was like watching a pack for German shepherds running away from a kitten.
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Fear Factory

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #5 on: 08 September 2018, 12:05:15 »
The character I prefer is a skill 1 pilot, but he has average 4 gunnery. He pilots an ASN-21.

Prepare to be charged, kicked, and punched. It hurts.

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #6 on: 08 September 2018, 12:08:32 »
I rather love the idea of importing the HBS BattleTech game rule of 'Mechs' physical attacks do double damage to vehicles' as a house rule.  It feels so right.

Fear Factory

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #7 on: 08 September 2018, 12:13:26 »
I rather love the idea of importing the HBS BattleTech game rule of 'Mechs' physical attacks do double damage to vehicles' as a house rule.  It feels so right.

Yes, we've yet to do it, but plan on it. Tired of vehicles being, in some cases, better than 'Mechs.

garhkal

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #8 on: 08 September 2018, 13:06:36 »
I love physical attacks, but feel the PS skill difference between target and attacker, should apply to more than the ones it does..  I also feel the quad's PSR bonus for having all legs, should also kick in on physicals...
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sadlerbw

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #9 on: 08 September 2018, 13:11:01 »
Give me a Charger 1A1 and I'll be like...



Heck, half the reason I liked the FRR so much was the fluff saying they liked physical attacks. Also, the most teeth-grindingly difficult part, for me, about playing clan forces with zell is being unable to physically pummel your opponents. It drives me nuts! Even though Axes are ovjectively not that great, I still love them. Heck, I like melee enough that I still take mechs with axes, even when they are tiny little ones like the Scarabus! I'm not crazy enough to use (EDIT: Flails!, I meant flails!) though. The risk of an own-goal headshot is too much, even for me.
« Last Edit: 08 September 2018, 16:57:37 by sadlerbw »

Scotty

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #10 on: 08 September 2018, 13:15:20 »
The risk of an own-goal headshot is too much, even for me.

What are you talking about?
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Caedis Animus

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #11 on: 08 September 2018, 13:16:55 »
What are you talking about?
I think he may have confused the Mace with the Flail?

Speaking of the Flail. I was always irritated that having TSM doesn't affect it; I mean, I'd imagine swinging a heavy metal object EVEN FASTER to the degree of doing more damage with it would be possible with something that makes the fists of an Atlas more akin to AC/20s than fists. Hell, even making it more accurate would work for me.

Edit; According to Sarna, even the freaking backhoe is affected by TSM, while the Wrecking ball and Mace are not. That's just sad.
« Last Edit: 08 September 2018, 13:23:44 by Caedis Animus »
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Sartris

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #12 on: 08 September 2018, 13:28:36 »
I rather love the idea of importing the HBS BattleTech game rule of 'Mechs' physical attacks do double damage to vehicles' as a house rule.  It feels so right.

Wait what now?

Intriguing

Frabby

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #13 on: 08 September 2018, 15:32:09 »
I used to be a standoff fighter - my personal 'Mech was an Archer. But in recent years, playing mostly pickup games on standard mapsheets (as opposed to custom terrain) I've switched to aggressive in-your-face tactics with typically medium 'Mechs, and do physical attacks a lot, mostly kicks. Most BT maps just aren't good for long range sniping.
However, I have a strong dislike for physical weapons like hatchets. I can't quite put a finger on it, they somehow feel silly whereas tree trunks and T-beams are fine.
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Colonial13

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #14 on: 08 September 2018, 15:36:58 »
I love them.  Best physical attack I’ve ever seen was a Grasshopper punching a Hunchback that already had an engine hit.  Grasshopper’s punch goes through the center torso armor, double crits, both roll up as engine hits.  It was the Battletech equivalent of the beating heart out of the chest scene from Temple of Doom.
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guardiandashi

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #15 on: 08 September 2018, 16:48:30 »
actually was playing with my friends the other day, and we were in 3025ish, on solaris IV (reaches) and it was a somewhat odd fight.

the "friendly" team was marauder MAD-3R (NPC), Wasp (stock with srm 2) one of my friends,4p/4g(natural aptitude gunnery) I had a shadowhawk, 4p/4g and natural aptitude piloting,  and my other friend had a panther 2p 3g, and essentially a scrounging skill.

we were up against an atlas, and good news for us, the atlas pilot suffered from poor tactics and got fixated on trying to take out the marauder to the point that he more or less ignored the rest of us, I got in behind the atlas and punched it repeatedly , and got 2 head hits with punches of course in the process... we stripped the center torso rear armor, and caused critical damage to a medium laser, and the engine and gyro I think.

sadlerbw

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #16 on: 08 September 2018, 17:07:14 »
I think he may have confused the Mace with the Flail?

Yes, said the wrong thing. Went back and edited my post. I can’t brain today!

Anyway, I tend to charge and DFA a lot more in Alpha Strike than I ever did in TW. I think it’s because your Opponent doesn’t get a chance to blow you up before the hit has a chance to land. In AS, since physical and weapon attacks all happen at the same time, my firey wreckage still has a chance to slam in to you, even if you blow my mech up!

Firesprocket

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #17 on: 09 September 2018, 00:45:58 »
Let's just say I got a Berserker and have used it a couple times instead of my usual Assault the Awesome
I did this recently.  I was all jacked and decided to go all in.  I hit MASC, rolled a 3 to avoid lock up, turned on pavement, rolled a 2 for a skid check, and then rolled a 2 again to stay standing and hit the ground.   Rolled a head shot on the fall.  I stayed conscious after my two hex skid successfully behind a building with nothing look back at me.  Had I made that skid check I'd have found myself smack dab next to an SRM carrier hidden in the wood next to hex where I planned to move.

Say 6 months ago I decided to run an Ostol 8M.  Nice little machine if you plan heat accordingly.  Finally got it set up where I could run in and get a double punch off on someone.  Sadly, despite a +4 modifier running into melee got gunned down before I could get off punches.

Melee is can be down right nice if you can time it right and you get solid satisfaction if you do something awesome like DFA someone or set up a minefield behind someone and then push them into it.  On the whole though I don't plan often on melee as a offense first option.  It's high risk with a high reward for me that very rarely pays off.

That said I have this dumb plan to take a Kuma 3 one of these days with a pilot skill 0 just so I can run around the board trying to DFA people as something other than desperation.

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #18 on: 09 September 2018, 01:54:59 »
I love em.

Especially physical weapons. Nobody wants to be on the receiving end, and it allows you to drive mechs where you want them
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Jellico

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #19 on: 09 September 2018, 05:59:06 »
I have never once used a physical attack at a table. Though I have thought about throwing my dice at another player.

Cyc

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #20 on: 09 September 2018, 06:47:22 »
It's weird. You use a TSM equipped Atlas to kick off somebody's pristine leg just once and people refuse to close with me whenever I play Atlases.

I rather love the idea of importing the HBS BattleTech game rule of 'Mechs' physical attacks do double damage to vehicles' as a house rule.  It feels so right.

So much about the physical attacks in the game to love, but the simple pleasure of easily pancaking vehicles is hard to trump.

Drewbacca

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #21 on: 09 September 2018, 09:59:39 »
I love them.  Best physical attack I’ve ever seen was a Grasshopper punching a Hunchback that already had an engine hit.  Grasshopper’s punch goes through the center torso armor, double crits, both roll up as engine hits.  It was the Battletech equivalent of the beating heart out of the chest scene from Temple of Doom.

My luckiest physical attack to date was a kick from a level 1 hill against a level 0 opponent that did not get through the CT armor but got a TAC that did three crits, all engines.

Pushing a unit off a hill, or better off a mapnä edge is always fun.

DarkSpade

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #22 on: 09 September 2018, 10:42:04 »
I have a friend that almost never succeed his skid checks, but that never stopped him from trying.  When it came time to see how far off course he went, he'd always roll high and end up crashing into something.  His hover tank would end up in the woods, his mech with the unarmored leg would end up in the river, etc.  By far the most common result was him crashing straight into another mech with.  This would be a great tactic for getting a mech into melee, but there was one problem with this "plan".  He always ended up charging his own units.  Really effective otherwise.

Haven't played CBT with him in awhile.  I wonder if this is still happening to him.
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Minemech

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #23 on: 09 September 2018, 11:38:51 »
 Physical attacks are simply part of exploiting the whole battlefield, their use needs to be thought out, but the option can be quite the variable in the battle.

Fear Factory

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #24 on: 09 September 2018, 11:44:58 »
If I had to pick a problem with physical attacks, it would have to be how easy it is to perform a kick over a punch. Yes, I know if you miss a kick you can fall, but the amount of damage done with a single kick is pretty significant. I know the punch has a 1 in 6 chance of hitting the head, but the kick has a much better payoff because you can consistently hit a leg location. You can flank a target from the right or left to pick a leg.

This could probably be solved by making kicks, pushes, clubbing, and punches a -1 difficulty modifier across the board. To make kicks less risky a -1 for the PSR could help, but I think they would be fine. The payoff, as the game stands, is well worth it. A little more risk would keep the game from becoming a slugfest.

Also, maybe even expanding the difference in piloting skills between the attacker and defender to all physical attacks.

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #25 on: 09 September 2018, 12:01:40 »
It always feels silly to me to resort to melee in a fusion powered 'mech armed with PPCs and pulse lasers. The battlefield of 31st century is no place for rock'em sock'em robots! But if I'm forced to resort to such barbaric tactics, I want a Hatchet and jumpjets so I can do it with style!
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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #26 on: 09 September 2018, 16:16:31 »
I love physical attacks, make them every chance I get.

My favorite was one time I was running a BRZ-C3.  Just got it up to 9 heat, then smacked someone in the arm with my hatchet.  I ended up rolling two crits to the center torso and ripped out their gyro.
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Col Toda

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #27 on: 10 September 2018, 09:04:35 »
In most ERA most units rarely get a chance to do it . Custom jobs with Stealth armor or TSM and a Super Charger doing the 2 punch combo on someone's rear armor can ruin their whole day . Do not think it worth it . Having a fast melee medic and an immobile target by TSEMP shot revived the tactic somewhat

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #28 on: 10 September 2018, 09:20:03 »
The battlefield of 31st century is no place for rock'em sock'em robots!

Solaris VII begs to differ. So do I. The "punching out your opponent's engine" listed before is one of the most impressive parts of the game. And as for kicks being easier, than punching, well, I don't know what to say to that except maybe invent rules for blocking kicks? Reducing kick damage? But discuss them in Fan Rules so the mods don't get angry.

Kovax

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #29 on: 10 September 2018, 10:09:19 »
If I had to pick a problem with physical attacks, it would have to be how easy it is to perform a kick over a punch. Yes, I know if you miss a kick you can fall, but the amount of damage done with a single kick is pretty significant. I know the punch has a 1 in 6 chance of hitting the head, but the kick has a much better payoff because you can consistently hit a leg location. You can flank a target from the right or left to pick a leg.

Remember that you get 2 punches, but only one kick.  The -1 ease of attacking is offset by the risk of falling if you miss.  Yes, you can pick a leg, but it takes a lot more damage to take off a leg than to breach the head armor.  The punch still allows you to target back locations from behind the target, particularly after you've created holes in the weapons phase, where the kicker still has to go after a leg.  I find kicks MARGINALLY more effective than punches, but if the to-hit modifiers were the same, I'd lean toward punching in most situations.

I generally prefer low piloting skills over low gunnery on some lighter 'Mechs, because their actual firepower is limited, but they can kick to inflict piloting rolls as well as do some damage.  I recall taking out one Atlas with pilot injuries almost entirely from failed "seat belt checks" (with the aid of a 2 point MG hit to the head) inflicted by a Locust while the Atlas was preoccupied with shooting at more threatening targets.  Once the tonnage of the attacker gets higher, the effectiveness of punches to the head starts to take precedence.

Probably the most effective physical attack I ever landed, back in the dim and distant past, was a push: knocking a lightly damaged Assault 'Mech off a 2 level cliff into water.  Granted, the fall damage wasn't spectacular, but the head failed its breach test.  One drowned pilot.  Unfortunately, the simultaneous return kick ripped the leg and torso side off my poor Light 'Mech (It was either a Wasp or a Stinger) that dared to push the Assault.  I'll gladly make that trade again.

Then again, I've been in one game where a Clan assault failed its piloting roll to cross a small stream, fell face first, and breached the cockpit on the opening round of the game before anything was even in firing range.  Physical attacks, falls, or other non-weapon damage can play a big part in a game, and I often consider how to best utilize the terrain to exploit that (such as high cliffs, water, etc.), rather than heading for a nice patch of woods or partial cover to trade fire in a session of TurretTech(r).