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Author Topic: Physical attacks and you...  (Read 3480 times)

JadeHellbringer

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #30 on: 10 September 2018, 10:19:48 »
One of my favorite 'updates' to the way of the world in the Dark Age is that at least some Clan warriors aren't feeling so squeamish about physical attacks anymore. The Eyrie and Jade Hawk are excellent examples showing that the Jade Falcons, at least, are pretty cool with beating the stupid out of their opponent- and I dig that.

The Solaris diorama at Gencon several years ago featured a Thor with a ForestryMech's chainsaw in its arm, and I'd love to see more omni configs with that kind of gear. (Show of hands, who would love to see an Executioner with a giant freaking axe in its hand? Yeah, it's not the most useful weapon in-game, but in terms of looks?)
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Drewbacca

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #31 on: 10 September 2018, 10:43:28 »
(Show of hands, who would love to see an Executioner with a giant freaking axe in its hand? Yeah, it's not the most useful weapon in-game, but in terms of looks?)

Hell yeah.

Demon55

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #32 on: 10 September 2018, 11:46:58 »
It always feels silly to me to resort to melee in a fusion powered 'mech armed with PPCs and pulse lasers. The battlefield of 31st century is no place for rock'em sock'em robots! But if I'm forced to resort to such barbaric tactics, I want a Hatchet and jumpjets so I can do it with style!

Yes.  I use them when needed but the tonnage for melee weapons is better spent.  Physical attacks give you another chance to do damage and can be worth it.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #33 on: 10 September 2018, 12:41:37 »
Kicks get a -2 on the attack modifier, not -1.  Also, the PSR to avoid falling after missing with a kick is at a 0 modifier.  In my experience it's really unusual to actually fall over after missing with a kick unless you've got a really bad modified piloting check (say, due to leg or gyro damage) and at that point it's not usually worth it.

And, of course, you can only make a melee attack if you didn't fire any weapons in that limb and since most mechs have arm-mounted weaponry that means kicking is almost always going to result in greater total damage vs punching and having to avoid using a few guns.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #34 on: 10 September 2018, 13:35:08 »
Kicks get a -2 on the attack modifier, not -1.  Also, the PSR to avoid falling after missing with a kick is at a 0 modifier.  In my experience it's really unusual to actually fall over after missing with a kick unless you've got a really bad modified piloting check (say, due to leg or gyro damage) and at that point it's not usually worth it.

And, of course, you can only make a melee attack if you didn't fire any weapons in that limb and since most mechs have arm-mounted weaponry that means kicking is almost always going to result in greater total damage vs punching and having to avoid using a few guns.

HI THERE! I'll have to cordially disagree, because falling on my ass after missing a kick is one of my superpowers. No idea what it is about it- I mean usually I'll hit on a kick, because that -2 is pretty handy, but if I need a 5 and roll a 3, it's almost guaranteed I'll be on my ass to start the next turn. Just kind of how it is- it SHOULDN'T mathematically work out that way often, and yet...
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guardiandashi

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #35 on: 10 September 2018, 13:54:22 »
HI THERE! I'll have to cordially disagree, because falling on my ass after missing a kick is one of my superpowers. No idea what it is about it- I mean usually I'll hit on a kick, because that -2 is pretty handy, but if I need a 5 and roll a 3, it's almost guaranteed I'll be on my ass to start the next turn. Just kind of how it is- it SHOULDN'T mathematically work out that way often, and yet...
hellbie it could always be worse.
my friend was telling about this person in his star wars group (they are playing WEG d6 star wars) and apparently he swaps out his dice regularly, but his luck is so bad that he was shooting someone with a blaster using 12D blaster skill, plus a scope, (for an extra 1D) so 13D6 for the check, he only needed a 15 or 16 to hit, ... he missed.
rolling 7d6 he got a 9 total.
rolling a D&D 3d6 x6(str, dex, con, int, wis, and cha) array of stats his highest stat was a 7

sadlerbw

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #36 on: 10 September 2018, 14:17:21 »
I play the Pathfinder adventure card game on my iPad quite a bit (played it IRL with my gaming group as well.) The app will show you your percentage chance for success, but in my experience, anything less than 90% means I'm going to miss  xp My real life experience has largely mirrored this.

Anyway, I will admit that melee weapons are not an optimal, or even particularly effective, use of tonnage...but I still like them. In fact, one of the things that really bugs me are mechs with 'claws' in the art that don't actually mount claws! I mean, claws were a thing when the Kodiak II and the Cave Lion came out, but do them actually mount them? Nope. Just the 'battle fists' quirk. Grrrr! I probably kick more than anything else, but once you get up to around 60 tons with TSM, I become a bigger fan of punching. Being able to knock a mech's head clean off, even if it isn't super likely, it just good, wholesome fun! TSM kicks can be hideous as well. If your mech is big enough, you can force the PSR for being kicked AND a PSR for doing 20+ damage in a turn, all in one hit.

Oh, and the TSM Berserker? Oh...oh my sweet baby, how I love thee! People talk about the AC/20 on the Hunchback being an area denial weapon. A TSM Berserker turns that up to 11. Even the bot in MegaMek knows to stay the hell away from one of these.

guardiandashi

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #37 on: 10 September 2018, 14:54:34 »
the most evil melee monster I ever built, was in the tactical handbook era, it was a 100 tonner with TSM, a claw melee weapon on 1 arm, and a MACE on the other, the tactic was to run up and claw and grapple with the claw, if successful the next turn it bashed them with the mace.  I don't care what you are piloting a 60 point mace hit is pretty much guaranteed to remove at least 1 location.
I want to say the worst hit was on an assault mech that had lost some armor previously, and the mace hit took out the arm, the side torso, and damaged the center torso, in 1 solid hit.

garhkal

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #38 on: 10 September 2018, 16:39:15 »
Remember that you get 2 punches, but only one kick.  The -1 ease of attacking is offset by the risk of falling if you miss.  Yes, you can pick a leg, but it takes a lot more damage to take off a leg than to breach the head armor.  The punch still allows you to target back locations from behind the target, particularly after you've created holes in the weapons phase, where the kicker still has to go after a leg.  I find kicks MARGINALLY more effective than punches, but if the to-hit modifiers were the same, I'd lean toward punching in most situations.

But if a kick's doing double the damage of a punch, the 'legs are more armored' aspect is a wash.  Especially when you take "if you kick the target IT needs a PSR" into account.  So i also agree, kicks are a lot more used than punches..

Quote
And, of course, you can only make a melee attack if you didn't fire any weapons in that limb and since most mechs have arm-mounted weaponry that means kicking is almost always going to result in greater total damage vs punching and having to avoid using a few guns.

That's why if you are Making the mech, don't build it with weapons in that arm!
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Crimson Dawn

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #39 on: 10 September 2018, 16:52:45 »
Hmm I assumed that kicks were used more often because legs tend to have weapons relatively rarely but they are very common on the arms and since you cannot fire them if you punch you lose out on those weapons when punching but that is rarely a problem with a kick.  I would think that mechs that had their long range weapons in the arms and close range in the torsos would be better able to take advantage of the punches especially if it is a mech with battlefists.

Elmoth

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #40 on: 10 September 2018, 16:55:40 »
I am waiting for a jumpjet armed mech with a double handed warhammer with srm on the head that fire on impact before I go after physical attacks.

sadlerbw

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #41 on: 10 September 2018, 18:07:29 »
Anyone ever use the Chain Whip? I know they are fairly new and rare, and I've never had the occasion to use one myself. Oddly, I haven't really used many of the 'new' melee weapons all that much. Stuff like Lances and Talons and Chain Whips, I've barely used, if at all. What I have used has been in Alpha Strike games, where it all just turns into the MEL special, so I've got no idea how good or bad some of this stuff is in TW land.

Daryk

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #42 on: 10 September 2018, 18:28:32 »
Kovax has the right of it in at least one aspect: if kicks and punches had the same to-hit modifier, I'd punch far more often than I kick.  Kicks would be reserved for damaged enemy legs that I'd be likely to remove.  Jade's experience is too close to mine for comfort, but I haven't had quite that bad luck, so I'm still willing to risk kicking with the relative bonus.

Scotty

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #43 on: 10 September 2018, 20:47:32 »
Anyone ever use the Chain Whip? I know they are fairly new and rare, and I've never had the occasion to use one myself. Oddly, I haven't really used many of the 'new' melee weapons all that much. Stuff like Lances and Talons and Chain Whips, I've barely used, if at all. What I have used has been in Alpha Strike games, where it all just turns into the MEL special, so I've got no idea how good or bad some of this stuff is in TW land.

Chain Whips are really great for big bruisers with lots of short range weapons that can maneuver into a one-on-one fight.  If you hit a leg, you can force a PSR, if you hit an arm you can attempt to grapple.  If you grapple you have to not move next turn or the grapple ends.  The Chain Whip does three damage to the location it hits.  It weighs 3 tons and takes two crits.

Chain Whips are practically useless in every other circumstance.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #44 on: 10 September 2018, 21:33:49 »
And IIRC, the only canon design that packs a Chain Whip is the Dasher II 4.
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SteelRaven

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #45 on: 10 September 2018, 21:40:19 »
And IIRC, the only canon design that packs a Chain Whip is the Dasher II 4.

The Trebuchet TBT-XK7/TBT-K7R and Templar III B also carry Chain Whips
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StoneRhino

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #46 on: 11 September 2018, 02:33:01 »
I like a good kick into the opposing side, but unless they screwed up and advanced to hard I consider using physical attacks to be a sign that I failed. Unless the unit has a hatchet, if I am using physical attacks then I messed up somewhere and either pushed to hard or allowed the other side to advance unchecked. Yes, there are times where its a sign that I am doing better then expected, but thats typically when I'm kicking a sniper style unit while his friends are stuck fighting with my other units and cannot fall back and support him without being steamrolled.

Azakael

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #47 on: 11 September 2018, 15:54:15 »
I love physical attacks. The other guy I play with and I tend to get up close and personal quickly and often. So kicks are the name of the game.
Except when something as glorious as our last campaign session. The mission was Wave of Confusion. There was quite a bit of rushing water... My friend happened to have stacked several of his mechs in this beautiful, nearly perfect conga line. One push. Several mechs fall... one into the river.

Akira213

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #48 on: 12 September 2018, 14:04:57 »
One of the first things I tell my padawans is: Don't cuddle with an enemy assault mech when you're not sitting in one yourself !
They normally get pretty fast why ;)
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Dapper Apples

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #49 on: 13 September 2018, 14:40:32 »
I learned about BT from the mechwarrior games, where physical attacks don't really exist, so I always found them a bit curious.

Part of me wants to make a custom 20 tonner with TSM and an axe and just have a lance or two of them swarm something and hack it down.  Probably wouldn't work out well, but it'd be fun to watch.  :D

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #50 on: 13 September 2018, 14:55:36 »
I learned about BT from the mechwarrior games, where physical attacks don't really exist, so I always found them a bit curious.

Part of me wants to make a custom 20 tonner with TSM and an axe and just have a lance or two of them swarm something and hack it down.  Probably wouldn't work out well, but it'd be fun to watch.  :D

Call that lance "The Four Dwarves" - Slashey, Smashey, Slicey and Dicey. :D
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garhkal

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #51 on: 13 September 2018, 14:58:07 »
30 tons is the lightest i go for hatchet wielders..  Usually i stay around 45 or 60 tons.
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Elmoth

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #52 on: 13 September 2018, 16:03:30 »
I can see hatchet LAM mechs.... hmm.... Aerial kicks with blades in the heels?

Sartris

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #53 on: 13 September 2018, 16:30:26 »
I learned about BT from the mechwarrior games, where physical attacks don't really exist, so I always found them a bit curious.

Part of me wants to make a custom 20 tonner with TSM and an axe and just have a lance or two of them swarm something and hack it down.  Probably wouldn't work out well, but it'd be fun to watch.  :D

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jklantern

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #54 on: 13 September 2018, 17:03:32 »
One of my favorite 'updates' to the way of the world in the Dark Age is that at least some Clan warriors aren't feeling so squeamish about physical attacks anymore. The Eyrie and Jade Hawk are excellent examples showing that the Jade Falcons, at least, are pretty cool with beating the stupid out of their opponent- and I dig that.

The Solaris diorama at Gencon several years ago featured a Thor with a ForestryMech's chainsaw in its arm, and I'd love to see more omni configs with that kind of gear. (Show of hands, who would love to see an Executioner with a giant freaking axe in its hand? Yeah, it's not the most useful weapon in-game, but in terms of looks?)


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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #55 on: 13 September 2018, 17:45:59 »
You know the Ghost Bears have been doing that for decades before the Falcons started.  They've even got an entire Galaxy who's unit ability is "you may customize your omnimech to mount a melee weapon, obeying the normal design rules."
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Diamondshark

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #56 on: 13 September 2018, 19:06:41 »
And then in another game, I left an Axeman I had painted in dark green and black cameo hidden in some trees in 3D terrain, where my opponent lost track of it. He then proceeded to park an Emperor next to it and fired on another 'Mech...the physical portion of the round comes up and I call an attack...he asks with what? To which I respond (with a smile on my face as I remember), "The Axeman next to your Emperor." He looks more closely at the board and grimaces as he sees what I'm talking about...

That may be the most beautiful thing I've ever read on here.  :clap:

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The Charger is easily one of my favorite SW mechs; treat it like a kick-delivery system and ignore any damage that doesn't prevent said kicking and it will do wonders. I was in a battle once where my Charger with almost none of its armor left and missing an arm; it proceeded to spot, cross the map to engage, and kick to death a pristine Annihilator. Come to think of it, no matter how psycho I get with Chargers, I've only ever lost one, and that was when two whole lances targeted it at once.
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garhkal

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #57 on: 14 September 2018, 01:22:20 »
One question i had a new player ask was, why you can't do a DFA like jumping Punch maneuver, similar to MMA's Superman punches..
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #58 on: 14 September 2018, 01:51:32 »
If you use jumping movement and make a punch attack, you can say that you are doing that, but adding a whole new combat maneuver wouldn't make much sense: mechs are not that fast or flexible, this isn't a Super Robot anime where the mechs can bounce around changing directions and twisting and turning like they each weigh no more than 100 lbs.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Physical attacks and you...
« Reply #59 on: 14 September 2018, 03:02:12 »
Think "tanks with legs" for the Battletech aesthetic.  Abrams tanks that stand up on their arse ends and slapfight at each other when they get too close is a much better visual.