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Author Topic: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?  (Read 849 times)

skiltao

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What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« on: 06 October 2018, 19:47:57 »
I'm trying to work out what all the Successor State shipbuilders were named for.

Stellar Trek = obvious.
Dharma Interstellar = ??? "Dharma" is a Hindu/Indian word that can sort of translate to 'cosmic order'
BBP Industries = ??? they made Triumphs, Excaliburs and Intruders.
Tomori Trans Industrial = "Tomori" means light, but who knows if they mean FTL or if they mean they're 'bright' in multiple industries
Hinsdale Elec = ??? they made Condors.
Matabushi Inc. = "the samurai inc."
Galileo Instruments = obvious.

Rashpur-Owens Inc. = ??? they made all Liao's jumpships.
Tengo AeroSpace = I'm inclined to read "Tengo" as a reference to the Teng system.

Nimakachi Fusion Products Ltd. = ??? They made Condors.

Ioto Galactic Enterprises = "Ioto" could be an alternate name for Iwo Jima, but... why do this?
Semier Data Tron = ??? They made Seekers, Excaliburs and Buccaneers for Steiner.
TAG = ??? They made Intruders, Mules and Behemoths for Steiner.

Universal Air = could be an airline reference, but 1988 seems just a hair early for merger jokes.
Challenge Systems = ??? is this a reference to the Shuttle Challenger?
Salvatore Inc. = ??? they made Seekers for the Suns.
Dynamico Ltd. = ??? they made Avengers and Buccaneers for the Suns.
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Takiro

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #1 on: 06 October 2018, 23:06:26 »
TAG = ??? They made Intruders, Mules and Behemoths for Steiner.

Tharkad Aerospace Group?

skiltao

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #2 on: 07 October 2018, 02:11:25 »
Or Thorin, Timbuktu, Trellshire, Tamar, Twycross... Triad, Terran, Tellurian...  :-\
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Takiro

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #3 on: 07 October 2018, 07:37:30 »
Tharkad Aerospace Group?

This is an old memory for me and something I could have well made up myself when Irose, myself, & Liam's Ghost were designing warships many moons ago.

Atarlost

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #4 on: 07 October 2018, 15:38:29 »
Or Thorin, Timbuktu, Trellshire, Tamar, Twycross... Triad, Terran, Tellurian...  :-\

The shipyard isn't over any of those places, though, and is over Tharkad.  Also, the wiki gives the same name as Takiro does so unless someone who shared his false memory wrote the article it's probably the actual name. 

skiltao

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #5 on: 07 October 2018, 18:45:26 »
The writer who originally named TAG didn't specify its location; per the wiki, it was a later generation of writers who put it over Tharkad some twenty years after the fact. Does that later source have any additional insight into why Tharkad was chosen?

This is an old memory for me and something I could have well made up myself when Irose, myself, & Liam's Ghost were designing warships many moons ago.

Thanks. Tharkad is the first option I think of as well, but I haven't found any corroborating evidence, so I suspect you guys did come up with it on your own.
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lrose

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #6 on: 09 October 2018, 16:59:16 »
Rashpur-Owens Inc. = ??? they made all Liao's jumpships.

Rashpur-Owens was the former Delhi Warships- I have a memory of seeing a reference that it was taken over the Rashpur and Owens families but I can't find the reference right now.

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Ioto Galactic Enterprises = "Ioto" could be an alternate name for Iwo Jima, but... why do this?

Ioto Galactic is the last surviving remnant of Di Tron Heavy Industries, which had it's HQ in Japan. So using an alternate name for Iwo Jima might work.


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TAG = ??? They made Intruders, Mules and Behemoths for Steiner.
Handbook House Steiner does use the name Tharkad Aerospace Group.


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Dynamico Ltd. = ??? they made Avengers and Buccaneers for the Suns.

Dynamico was formed from the merger of 2 dropship manufacturers during the SL Era- maybe the name is contraction of the 2 companies names?  Unfortunately we do not have the names of the 2 predecessor companies.

I'm going to guess that most of the other companies are either named after their owners/founders or cities/states where the are originally from.

glitterboy2098

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #7 on: 09 October 2018, 17:33:31 »
Tomori is also a name, so "Tomori Trans-industrial" could just be a corporation owned/founded by the Tomori family/clan which includes multiple types of industry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomori

more than likely it would be a type keiretsu, or bloc of companies with interlocking shareholdings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keiretsu


skiltao

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #8 on: 10 October 2018, 15:21:31 »
Family names are certainly possible, but the author still has to get those family names from somewhere, right?

Ioto Galactic is the last surviving remnant of Di Tron Heavy Industries, which had it's HQ in Japan. So using an alternate name for Iwo Jima might work.

Handbook House Steiner does use the name Tharkad Aerospace Group.

The Steiner Handbook is copyrighted 2004, so maybe you guys did get Tharkad from there. That book also switches Di Tron's successor to Semier Data Tron, which I think is the right move; the Star League Sourcebook says Ioto, but it also says the successor company builds DropShips, and Semier Data Tron has the better-matched name.

I wonder if the old Steiner book put yards at New Kyoto so they could move to Alarion and become the Ioto yards.

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Rashpur-Owens was the former Delhi Warships- I have a memory of seeing a reference that it was taken over the Rashpur and Owens families but I can't find the reference right now.

That's certainly possible, and it makes sense that many of the 3025 shipyards would date back to the Star League, even if they're under different names.

It's kind of interesting that none of the 3025 shipyards share names with shipyards in other states.
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lrose

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #9 on: 10 October 2018, 17:13:13 »
The Steiner Handbook is copyrighted 2004, so maybe you guys did get Tharkad from there. That book also switches Di Tron's successor to Semier Data Tron, which I think is the right move; the Star League Sourcebook says Ioto, but it also says the successor company builds DropShips, and Semier Data Tron has the better-matched name.

My copy of the House Steiner Handbook (p. 143) claims Ioto Galactic is the former Di Tron.  The Semier entry makes no mention of Di Tron.


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I wonder if the old Steiner book put yards at New Kyoto so they could move to Alarion and become the Ioto yards.

The New Kyoto Yards were Bolson Shipyards- they produced the Mako and commercial vessels. The Bolson Yards were destroyed by the FWL in 2787.  I was under the impression that the Ioto Yards were always located at Alarion and Gibbs.

skiltao

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #10 on: 10 October 2018, 21:49:29 »
Hah, man, this is just not my day. ;D I might not put a ton of stock in the new Handbook series but this is the first time I've remembered one wrong; and I even had the old book's Bolson yards sidebar open while writing! Thank you for the corrections.

Okay, so the authors probably chose New Kyoto for its location rather than for potential thematic links to "Ioto."

Linking Di Tron to Ioto instead of to Semier Data Tron (and mistaking Ioto's JumpShips for DropShips) is still weird, but if Technicron and TechniCorp can be different corporations then having two unrelated "Tron" corporations is completely fair too.

I was under the impression that the Ioto Yards were always located at Alarion and Gibbs.

It's unclear. The old Steiner book mentions yards being moved off the front at the beginning of the war, and the Alarion yards aren't mentioned until the end of the war. The Gibbs site is first mentioned in Objective Raids as a former repair facility.

Edit: There's also a question of whether the "Henderson JumpShips of Alarion Unlimited" taken over by N&D Shipyards in the 3020s are the same as the Ioto Galactic yards.
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lrose

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #11 on: 11 October 2018, 11:37:11 »
 

Okay, so the authors probably chose New Kyoto for its location rather than for potential thematic links to "Ioto."


Did the old house Steiner book give the location as New Kyoto?(I’m at the dmv and can’t check my books right now)

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It's unclear. The old Steiner book mentions yards being moved off the front at the beginning of the war, and the Alarion yards aren't mentioned until the end of the war. The Gibbs site is first mentioned in Objective Raids as a former repair facility.


I thought the reference to shipyards being relocated to Alarion were in reference to the Bowie facility which was originally located on Dell

skiltao

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #12 on: 11 October 2018, 13:01:47 »
Edit: Apologies if my pronouns were misleading. By "its location" I mean the totally destroyed Bolson site, not Ioto Galactic; the old Steiner book never mentions "Ioto," naming the sole JumpShip manufacturer as "Henderson JumpShips of Alarion Unlimited" instead. /Edit

The reference at the beginning of the First Succession War chapter is about the Free Worlds League attacking shipyards on the Lyran/League border, and the Archon ordering the surviving facilities moved deeper into the Commonwealth. That's followed immediately by the Bolson sidebar on the next page.

That sidebar describes the Bolson yards as "a major shipbuilding facility orbiting the large moon of the Kyoto system." New Kyoto is a good choice for these attacks - it's in the middle of the Rahneshire (which is marked as "Bolan" on the old Succession Wars boardgame map) not far from Solaris and the current League border.

The Bowie reference comes much later in the book, in the Weapon Industries section, and says Bowie moved to Alarion from "the Kurita world of Dell" at the start of the Succession Wars.
« Last Edit: 11 October 2018, 13:16:07 by skiltao »
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lrose

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #13 on: 11 October 2018, 14:38:06 »
Edit: Apologies if my pronouns were misleading. By "its location" I mean the totally destroyed Bolson site, not Ioto Galactic; the old Steiner book never mentions "Ioto," naming the sole JumpShip manufacturer as "Henderson JumpShips of Alarion Unlimited" instead. /Edit

The old house steiner book - page 51 says: "The ability to build faster-than-light ships, even the simplest freight had been cut by 95%.  Only the Port Sydney Naval Shipyards above Alarion and a few private firms like the Clippership Yards were capable of manufacturing Jumpships"

What's not clear is who owns Port Sydney - it could be Henderson, it could be Ioto.

skiltao

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #14 on: 11 October 2018, 15:28:26 »
Per the Alarion entry in the back of the book (the pdf doesn't have page numbers unfortunately), the Port Sydney orbital yards are the only ones to survive to 3025. Given that Defiance and Nashsan are working together to get the Henderson yards running, and that the Lyrans have bought JumpShips from Star's End in the meantime (first RPG page 136), I think the Henderson yards are meant to be the only ones in the Commonwealth.

I agree that the ownership isn't explicit, and I suspect the different names represent different layers of ownership; Henderson JumpShips (now N&D Shipyards) was owned by Alarion Unlimited, which could be a division of Ioto Galactic, and (per Objective Raids page 78) Ioto and Bowie share Port Sydney.
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lrose

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #15 on: 11 October 2018, 16:06:03 »
Looking at Handbook House Steiner it seems highly likely that N&D Jumpships (Henderson Jumpships of Alarion Unlimited) is not at all related to Port Sydney Naval Shipyard or Ioto Galactic.  The write up for Nashan Diversified lists as one of their major HQs Nashan Skyfab in the Alarion system.  That sounds like the name of a space station (it was probably called something else in the past but the Nashan entry makes note how the company has been renaming/reorganizing companies it has acquired).  Ioto Galactic on the other hand is said to have it's main plant at Port Sydney. 

As for explaining the entry about Alarion and Port Sydney from the old house book- the statement is correct- in 3025 Port Syndey was the only operational shipyard in the LC- Henderson Shipyards had declared bankruptcy in 3012 and it appears that production halted at some point since the book says "N&D Shipyards should be producing Jumpships and refueling stations within eight years" indicating they are producing nothing right now. 

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #16 on: 11 October 2018, 16:47:33 »
Hinsdale is an affluent neighborhood in Chicagoland.
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skiltao

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #17 on: 11 October 2018, 16:59:09 »
The Handbook treats Ioto and N&D as separate shipyards, sure, but none of the other old Housebooks added more shipyards beyond what was listed in DropShips & JumpShips, and it's unheard of to have two JumpShip manufacturers in the same star system. The Handbook only puts both at Alarion because Objective Raids put Ioto there without mentioning N&D (which could mean Objective Raids viewed the N&D yards as part of Ioto).

The old text can be read in a way that agrees with the Handbook, but I don't think it's meant to be; "the only orbiting shipyards...which are capable of repairing and refitting JumpShips" doesn't preclude the yards being damaged and in need of repair. I mean, if half of Defiance's 'Mech lines on Hesperus were damaged and under repair, the book would still refer to Defiance as the Inner Sphere's biggest 'Mech manufacturer, right?

Hinsdale is an affluent neighborhood in Chicagoland.

Interesting.
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lrose

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #18 on: 11 October 2018, 19:21:14 »
We could go back & forth on this and truthfully unless it is specifically detailed in a sourcebook there really is no answer. 

Personally I don't see how N&D Shipyards and Ioto are the same the way they have been currently written, but you may be right that they were originally intended to be the same facility.

On a separate note I was looking at D&J and apparently Semier Data Tron was originally Semler Data Tron- it looks like the l got changed to an i in Objective Raids.  Semler apparently is a surname.  So allowing for the typo I would assume Semier is supposed to be a surname.

skiltao

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #19 on: 13 October 2018, 13:24:10 »
Good catch; "Semler" could be a generic German name, or it could refer to an actual company from the 1980s.

I need to keep a better eye out for these spelling changes, especially since I'm relying heavily on OCR'd text.  :-\

We could go back & forth on this and truthfully unless it is specifically detailed in a sourcebook there really is no answer. 

That's fair. A universe in which N&D Shipyards and Ioto are separate is by no means a bad universe; I'm trying to be aware of weird possibilities, though, because details like this will have knock-on effects in my larger project.
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lrose

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #20 on: 13 October 2018, 16:05:28 »
Good catch; "Semler" could be a generic German name, or it could refer to an actual company from the 1980s.

I need to keep a better eye out for these spelling changes, especially since I'm relying heavily on OCR'd text.  :-\

Semier is now the official name- it has been written that way in every book other then D&J- I was just pointing out the original spelling since it might point to the original writer's intentions for the company's origins. (Or I might just be reading too much into a game book.)

skiltao

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #21 on: 14 October 2018, 12:29:37 »
Well sure, and thanks!
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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #22 on: 27 October 2018, 19:36:28 »
Couple things.

Ioto has been producing Jumpships as far back as the DS&JS sourcebook that lists all of LyrComs JS types are produced by Ioto.

SLSB says Ioto is a maker of Dropships but I'm assuming that is a Typo since DS&JS lists the name over & over repeatedly.

Port Sidney is the name of the Naval Shipyards but it isn't owned by just one company, several firms have factories in Port Sidney.

I wouldn't put too much weight into the MW1 RPG comment about Star's End, it just say's "speculation" that she may have offered materials for salvaged Jumpships.
In 3025 ALL Jumpships are rare so getting some extras is something any House Lord would do. 
I don't think it implies in any way that LyrCom could not produce any JS for the 27+ years or so that Henderson was unable to produce Jumpships (3006-3033).

Interestingly, TAG's location is first listed as being at Gibbs in Objective Raids, though, that could easily be a layout error as Tharkad is the next planet listed after Gibbs.
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skiltao

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #23 on: 28 October 2018, 14:51:16 »
Ioto has been producing Jumpships as far back as the DS&JS sourcebook that lists all of LyrComs JS types are produced by Ioto.

Yep, the manufacturers in my OP are all from DS&JS.

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SLSB says Ioto is a maker of Dropships but I'm assuming that is a Typo since DS&JS lists the name over & over repeatedly.

Conversely, repeating the Japanese-sounding "Ioto" over and over would make for an easy Freudian slip, given Di Tron's Japanese backstory.

Come to think of it, the SLSB says "Ioto Industries," whereas DS&JS says "Ioto Galactic Enterprises." The only Lyran "Industries" in DS&JS was Bowie Industries, which is indeed a manufacturer of DropShips, and Bowie leaving Kurita space fits with the SLSB manufacturer's history of bad blood with Kurita.

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Port Sidney is the name of the Naval Shipyards but it isn't owned by just one company, several firms have factories in Port Sidney.

Objective Raids says Ioto and Bowie share it, and the 3067 Steiner book seems to headquarter N&D in a separate complex. Have you found additional references?

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I wouldn't put too much weight into the MW1 RPG comment about Star's End, it just say's "speculation" that she may have offered materials for salvaged Jumpships.
In 3025 ALL Jumpships are rare so getting some extras is something any House Lord would do. 
I don't think it implies in any way that LyrCom could not produce any JS for the 27+ years or so that Henderson was unable to produce Jumpships (3006-3033).

MW1e isn't prone to making spurious remarks, so I think we can at least assume the "speculation" was intended to be true. You're right that the Lyrans getting extra JumpShips doesn't mean a lot on its own, but it does negate some potential complaints about the "Ioto = Henderson JumpShips" interpretation of the House Steiner book.

Quote
Interestingly, TAG's location is first listed as being at Gibbs in Objective Raids, though, that could easily be a layout error as Tharkad is the next planet listed after Gibbs.

Yeah, that may be what the 3067 Handbook figured.
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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #24 on: 28 October 2018, 20:57:36 »
Does N & D Shipyards ever get fluffed as producing a single ship?

We know that in 3025 they were not likely to produce anything in the next 8 years, but I'm wondering if we ever hear from them again.

Only own my references don't include the newest Lyran materials.   Just all the stuff from the 80's & early 90's.

I'm thinking the N&D reference might have just disappeared into the ether but I wish they did get something up & running, it would mean we'd have more than just Gibbs for the Lyrans in the post Jihad era.

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lrose

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #25 on: 29 October 2018, 09:06:03 »
Does N & D Shipyards ever get fluffed as producing a single ship?

Yes. Either the handbook or minions and masters has them producing jump ships. Merchants iirc. I don’t have my books handy to check right now.

Edit - Handbook House Steiner - the write up for Nashan Diversified indicates that N&D Shipyards of Alarion produces  Scout and Merchant Jumpships as well as space stations.
« Last Edit: 29 October 2018, 10:31:10 by lrose »

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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #26 on: 05 November 2018, 05:56:09 »
Probaly just some names that sounded like they should put ships together.
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Re: What Were the Old Spaceship Manufacturers Named For?
« Reply #27 on: 08 November 2018, 14:19:46 »
I wonder if "BBP" might be "Beyond" British Petroleum? I keep thinking one of these corporations was mentioned in Dr Who, but I think I'm just getting Hinsdale Electric mixed up with International Electromatics.

Looking at my math on Lyran JumpShip production, it looks like I was assuming the Inner Sphere's total production would bounce from 12/yr to 12.5/yr; JumpShip production rates obviously do increase from 3025 through the 3050s, but I'm no longer sure that a .5 increase makes sense for the 3025 snapshot presented in DS&JS and the old House books. So, at least for the moment, I'm on board with Henderson not being the only JumpShip yard at Port Sydney.

Probaly just some names that sounded like they should put ships together.

"Dynamico," maybe, but "Stellar Trek?" ;)
« Last Edit: 08 November 2018, 14:21:56 by skiltao »
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