Register Register

Author Topic: Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]  (Read 380 times)

Elmoth

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 393
Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]
« on: 16 October 2018, 10:47:27 »
Hello all,

I am thinking of offering a Chameleon to my players in our Irian Fists campaign. They just captured a phoenix hawk (without one of its legs), but I want to keep them using (supposedly) lousy material for the time being.  We use alpha strike, and I thinki it must be a better mech here than in CBT, since the fluff in Sarna and what I see in the MUL do not really match much. Or that is the impression that I got: looking at the MUL, it is not the best of mechs but I found it surprisingly competent.

What is bothering me here is that the mech is described as being very problematic regarding heat management ON PURPOSE since it is used as a training mech: all energy weaponry (except 2 MGs) and only the 10 basic heat sinks. It is also listed as having 7 tons of armor, below average for a 50 toner. The MUL seem to reflect these things by its 2 1 0 with OV1 and 8 points of A+S, but it is not THAT massively bad. heat seems manageable in a skirmisher. Dunno, I find this counterintuitive. I guess I was expecting a worse mech than what I got. Comparing it with the normal Phoenix Hawk it is supposed to replace (with players grumbling) I do ot see much of a real difference. The PHK is better at mid range, but the Chameleon can be much better as a short range brawler (overheating for 3 damage there!).

What are your impressions with this training mech?
Be careful about applying real logic on BattleTech or vice versa. That way lies madness

Sartris

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5509
  • Here for the Jokes
Re: Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]
« Reply #1 on: 16 October 2018, 14:25:37 »
AS stats are an abstraction of BT stats so a lot of units kind of melt together and it's hard to tell them apart. Even playing the conventional game, they're not that much different - the key point of departure is armor where you get disparities of 23 vs 16 in the CT and 18 vs 10 in the side torsos in favor of the pixie

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? (updated) | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | 3145 Tech Reclassifications | Evolution of Tech Classifications | PaperTech Mech Counters

Forum Maturity (np): that stupid™ thread full of bad® opinions has new replies but you do not read them

Luciora

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1584
Re: Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]
« Reply #2 on: 16 October 2018, 14:35:09 »
I like the Chameleon overall over the Pixie.  The 5 ton addition and using the small lasers with the MGs in point blank attacks over the large laser for better heat management really appealed to me.

Tai Dai Cultist

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6667
Re: Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]
« Reply #3 on: 16 October 2018, 15:05:36 »
The main advantage a chameleon has as a training mech is fluff-only.  It doesn't translate to AS or Boardgame/CBT iterations of BattleTech...

It's the ability of the mech to mount baffles that give it the physical appearance of any number of other mech chassis.  Hence the name.

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7538
  • Painted by Mastergunz
Re: Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]
« Reply #4 on: 16 October 2018, 17:11:36 »
You don't make a training 'mech that can shut down in a single Alpha Strike.  It might damage the 'mech.  Or maybe even your poor trainee.  You just want enough that they have to consider when and where to use it.  The Chameleon does that perfectly in AS.  It's a 50%-100% increase in damage.  But you can't just use it all the time, you have to weight the costs.
Master Unit List website - where to find units, what factions use them, what's their BV?
http://www.masterunitlist.info
3025-3050 Random Assignment Tables -
Also contains faction deployment & rarity info and Quirk lists.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1219.0

Elmoth

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 393
Re: Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]
« Reply #5 on: 16 October 2018, 17:12:25 »
The main advantage a chameleon has as a training mech is fluff-only.  It doesn't translate to AS or Boardgame/CBT iterations of BattleTech...

It's the ability of the mech to mount baffles that give it the physical appearance of any number of other mech chassis.  Hence the name.

Didn't know that!!! Will have to use this trick the players :P

Glad to know it is basically fluff. I was thinking it was weird that it was somgood when it is suppose to suck in the background. Maybe a +1 to piloting rolls and a -1 to hit rolls. Hmm...
Be careful about applying real logic on BattleTech or vice versa. That way lies madness

RoundTop

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1023
  • In Takashi We Trust
Re: Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]
« Reply #6 on: 16 October 2018, 18:08:47 »
Remember that in AS, short is 6". While medium is 24".  That is a lot of difference. and the Cham isn't fast enough to guarantee 6".  That 2 damage at medium that a pixie has is worth a lot more than the 1 the Cham has at medium.

In my EXP, AS is 90% played at medium range. If you are at 6" range, something went wrong or you are running a melee mech.
No-Dachi has a counter-argument. Nothing further? Ok.
Demo team agent #772

Tai Dai Cultist

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6667
Re: Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]
« Reply #7 on: 16 October 2018, 18:12:28 »
...

In my EXP, AS is 90% played at medium range. If you are at 6" range, something went wrong or you are running a melee mech.

Well... in my experience the primary reason to be at short range is trying to kill a minxy/high-TMM unit.

DarkJaguar

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 135
Re: Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]
« Reply #8 on: 18 October 2018, 12:19:41 »
Well... in my experience the primary reason to be at short range is trying to kill a minxy/high-TMM unit.
that's what medium range master is for. ;)

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13288
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]
« Reply #9 on: 26 October 2018, 17:51:05 »
The fluff is written for TW IMO, where the MG ammo is vulnerable to blowing it apart and its under-armored compared to some of the line contemporaries.

And yeah, nckstrel its fine for a training mech simply b/c you do not have to activate all those weapons for a trainee to use- the fire control computer can have them shut off.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.

Hayden.

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 242
Re: Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]
« Reply #10 on: 10 November 2018, 10:11:30 »
My biggest gripe about the Chameleon is more from an equipment standpoint. To my mind, the 'Mech should have equipped a broader variety of weapons, at a minimum adding an SRM-2 and LRM-5 at the expense of some of the lasers and armor, to familiarize trainee pilots with a broader suite of weapons. Typically I use stock SHD-2H Shadow Hawks as "trainers" when introducing people to BT; this is obviously less important in AS.
Hayden

Elmoth

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 393
Re: Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]
« Reply #11 on: 11 November 2018, 11:14:23 »
Quite true. A Shadow Hawk looks like a much better deal for a learner mech than the Chameleon. Except for heat management (that is the only gripe with the chameleon).
Be careful about applying real logic on BattleTech or vice versa. That way lies madness

Luciora

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1584
Re: Opinions on the Chameleon? [ranting]
« Reply #12 on: 11 November 2018, 11:27:42 »
Heat management is the point of the Chameleon though,  considering you use the small lasers to place the trainee at different levels of heat to learn the effects.  The shadow hawk would be the weapons type trainer, but lousy to teach effects of heat.