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Author Topic: VDNI / Buffered VDNI / Pain Shunt Rules  (Read 575 times)

Tangoforone

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VDNI / Buffered VDNI / Pain Shunt Rules
« on: 25 October 2018, 11:50:00 »
I hate to bring these rules up again, but I read through the history on the forums and did not find anything specific to my case, so here it goes.

I played a game many moons ago that had two pilots with Buffered VDNI and Pain Shunts piloting some Celestials.  During the game one of the pilots suffered, I believe, a single head hit from an enemies weapons-fire after also taking some internal damage (engine hit and weapon destroyed I believe).  According to my teammate, who was piloting the Celestials, that pilot died instantly due to the head hit, even though it did not blow off the head. 

Is this an accurate statement? 

I have poured through the rules (Jihad 3072) to figure out what happens when the pilot takes internal structure damage (weapons, engine hits, gyros, etc.); what I have found is that the player rolls 2d6, and on an 8 or more they take piloting damage, but do not have to roll for consciousness.  Head hits, falling, and ammo explosions are handled normally.

Let me know what your thoughts are.  If the other player is correct it seems like it would be more BV efficient and safe to just have pilots with very low skills (1 gunnery and 2 piloting, increased to 3 due to the small cockpits).  I am going to keep pouring over these rules, but I wanted some additional feedback.

faithless

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Re: VDNI / Buffered VDNI / Pain Shunt Rules
« Reply #1 on: 25 October 2018, 11:57:33 »
I do not have my rules books at the moment. But I am pretty sure the buffered vdni with the pain shunt makes it where they take the hits but they do not have to make the consciousness rolls. But As the hits stack up they could eventually kill the pilot.

Regular VDNI if I remember correctly can cause extra feed back to the pilot since they are wired in. I seem to remember internal hits and maybe ammo hits had a greater affect.

I may be a little off on my memory of these rules, but I am pretty certain it is not an instant kill just for a single head hit.
« Last Edit: 25 October 2018, 12:00:03 by faithless »
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AlphaMirage

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Re: VDNI / Buffered VDNI / Pain Shunt Rules
« Reply #2 on: 25 October 2018, 13:19:32 »
I do not have my rules books at the moment. But I am pretty sure the buffered vdni with the pain shunt makes it where they take the hits but they do not have to make the consciousness rolls. But As the hits stack up they could eventually kill the pilot.

Regular VDNI if I remember correctly can cause extra feed back to the pilot since they are wired in. I seem to remember internal hits and maybe ammo hits had a greater affect.

I may be a little off on my memory of these rules, but I am pretty certain it is not an instant kill just for a single head hit.

I believe they are in Interstellar Operations but that sounds right except Regular VDNI has a pilot hit each internal crit as well even if it is not an ammo crit (which would be three if I remember correctly).  Only instant kills from head hits are 12+ points of damage

Maelwys

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Re: VDNI / Buffered VDNI / Pain Shunt Rules
« Reply #3 on: 25 October 2018, 23:46:58 »
Buffered DNI means you roll for damage (8+) whenever a critical hit occurs.

The Pain Shunt allows you to ignore the (possible) feedback damage from the critical hits. But it doesn't allow you to ignore the damage from head hits.

So from everything that's been stated, it sounds like the pilot should just have 1 Wound.

What your opponent might have been thinking was that he HAD to take damage from internal hits, and then the head hit finished the pilot off, but first of all, damage from internal/critical hits isn't automatic, and is ignored completely with the pain shunt

Greatclub

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Re: VDNI / Buffered VDNI / Pain Shunt Rules
« Reply #4 on: 26 October 2018, 08:05:14 »
The rules for this are all over a couple chapters of interstellar operations

We start at page 68, with the DNI cockpit. Need one to run VDNI; more on page 189 & 218

The pain shunt rules are on p.77 – pilots don’t take damage from a couple things, including VDNI feedback, but do take damage per normal from head hits and failed seat-belt checks.  BPV mod is on page 190

VDNI is on 82. -1 to gunnery and piloting. Hits to internal structure make you roll 2d6, and take a pilot damage on a roll of 8 or more. That can be ignored if you have a pain shunt. p.190 has the BPV mods

Buffered VDNI is also page 82. They get a -1 to gunnery to gunnery, but NOT piloting. They do ignore small cockpit modifiers, getting an effective pilot modifier on some mechs, IE. The entire Celestial series. When a component, any component, takes a crit, you make the above test. The bVDNI only pays for the gunnery decrease, and ignores the small cockpit benefit for some reason – I guess it balances with the extra pilot damage rolls. In such a case it seems much better than VDNI. p.190. No mention of pain shunt interactions I could find, so I assume you can get one at the same time.


The Mechani Domini Interface is on page 116. Pilot a mech with your mind while wearing Power Armor. *beat* Somebody watched too much mech-wank anime before writing. More on page 186.

p.222, 223 for availability charts.

00000

Outside narrative play, just buying a better pilot seems a better value on a BPV basis than messing around with lobotomies.
« Last Edit: 26 October 2018, 08:22:00 by Greatclub »

Maelwys

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Re: VDNI / Buffered VDNI / Pain Shunt Rules
« Reply #5 on: 26 October 2018, 11:43:29 »
Buffered VDNI is also page 82. They get a -1 to gunnery to gunnery, but NOT piloting. They do ignore small cockpit modifiers, getting an effective pilot modifier on some mechs, IE. The entire Celestial series. When a component, any component, takes a crit, you make the above test. The bVDNI only pays for the gunnery decrease, and ignores the small cockpit benefit for some reason – I guess it balances with the extra pilot damage rolls. In such a case it seems much better than VDNI. p.190. No mention of pain shunt interactions I could find, so I assume you can get one at the same time.

The Pain Shunt interactions with BVDNI is covered with the line "Tracking and resolving the effects of these pilot hits otherwise follows the same rules as described in the basic VDNI above."

Sir Chaos

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Re: VDNI / Buffered VDNI / Pain Shunt Rules
« Reply #6 on: 27 October 2018, 09:12:32 »
The pain shunt rules are on p.77 – pilots don’t take damage from a couple things, including VDNI feedback, but do take damage per normal from head hits and failed seat-belt checks.  BPV mod is on page 190

Don´t you also not roll for unconsciousness if the pilot has a Pain Shunt?
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Maelwys

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Re: VDNI / Buffered VDNI / Pain Shunt Rules
« Reply #7 on: 27 October 2018, 13:44:29 »
Yup, no consciousness rolls for pilots with Pain Shunts.

Greatclub

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Re: VDNI / Buffered VDNI / Pain Shunt Rules
« Reply #8 on: 27 October 2018, 18:42:00 »
OK, I must revise my earlier opinion. Pain shunt + small cockpit + bVDNI is well worth it on a BPV basis. You get the stats you pay for and a couple of bennies to boot.

Maelwys

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Re: VDNI / Buffered VDNI / Pain Shunt Rules
« Reply #9 on: 27 October 2018, 23:11:48 »
Dermal armor is always a nice buff as well. That lets you ignore the damage from falls and head hits as well, and the BV seems to be non-existent for MechWarriors.

truetanker

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Re: VDNI / Buffered VDNI / Pain Shunt Rules
« Reply #10 on: 28 October 2018, 22:53:33 »
Yeah, page 190 in IO states +3 per trooper for Infantry and specifically leaves out non-Infantry, so yeah!

Might as well use Prosthetic Legs, MASC as well, gives you a 2 MP to cover the field unaided.

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