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Author Topic: Collaborative Merc Unit  (Read 8815 times)

Nav_Alpha

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #60 on: 21 November 2018, 01:18:57 »
I propose the following planets for the contracts.

Combine Civilian World - Kaus Media

Prison Break - Devil's Rick

The two worlds are four jumps apart (I have a spreadsheet). The Rock Is two jumps, KM is three from Galatea.

And Kaus Media has no garrison in 3035. So just militia to see off


"Hold your position, conserve ammo... and wait for the Dragoons to go Feral"
- last words of unknown merc, Harlech, 3067
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Elmoth

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #61 on: 21 November 2018, 02:35:17 »
I propose the following planets for the contracts.

Combine Civilian World - Kaus Media

Prison Break - Devil's Rick

The two worlds are four jumps apart (I have a spreadsheet). The Rock Is two jumps, KM is three from Galatea.

Great. It takes a while to do our tour (somewhat more than 2 months if we need 1 week to do each jump (official time IIRC) so I will up the payment of each contract by +10 to take that into account: basic payment is supposed to equal your basic expenses after all. Apart from that we are set. If someone wants to start the staff meeting (or do the whole thing) go for it. :)

Regarding he jump laser platoon, do what suits your table and style. At my table we use alpha strike rules and a lite RPG, so these changes would not matter much narratively. However, if those are important in AtoW and/or CBT, there is no problem at all to change the equipment to the one suggested. All this is a rough guideline of the resources we have. Feel free to modify stuff to suit your style.

Another thing to consider is combat names for the MechWarriors. The ASF pilots already have them.

For Anton I think "Conflagration" is grand and laughable enough. Veterans can call him "Comfy" to his chagrin.
« Last Edit: 21 November 2018, 03:35:15 by Elmoth »

Elmoth

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #62 on: 21 November 2018, 07:18:30 »
Well, I started the staff meeting. Anyone can chime in :)

Daryk

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #63 on: 21 November 2018, 08:14:55 »
On the infantry: cool... I'll tweak them as I've suggested.  They'll be cheaper and more effective at the same time.  Maybe cheap enough to pick up that Goblin variant.

Daryk

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #64 on: 21 November 2018, 09:49:09 »
Hmmm... I'm not seeing any logical correlation in the MUL between BV and PV.  From the AToW/TW perspective, here's what I'd like to see:

Foot platoon (30 broken down into 5, 6-trooper squads; we can do Taurian squads (3x10 troopers) if you prefer):
4 Auto Rifles and 2 Intek Laser Rifles per squad (3 points of damage out to 3/6/9 range; 13 points of damage as a platoon; Taurian organization would be 5 points per squad, or 15 as a platoon; the differences are due to rounding).
Since this is Galatea, surplus Lyran armor jackets should be easy to come by.  They have an armor divisor of 2 without a movement penalty, and are ridiculously cheap.  Lyran helmets would be sweet, but Drac ones are cheaper.
Load Bearing Packs, Compasses and Basic Field Kits for all.
For the squad leaders, Rangefinder Binoculars and Vibroblades.
One Solar Recharger per squad (they're only 1.5 kg).
For transport, either 5 jeeps (which don't have PVs), or the MG variant Goblin (16 points) (vice being motorized).

Jump Platoon (21 broken down into 3, 7-trooper squads as normal)
6 Intek Laser Rifles and 1 Heavy Grenade Launcher per squad (3 points of damage out to 3/6/9 range; 9 points of damage as a platoon); there is no movement penalty for only one support weapon per squad.
Surplus Lyran armor jackets again for the divisor of 2 without a movement penalty.
Same basic and squad leader equipment as the Foot Platoon.
For transport, the Ferret should be able to move one squad, and the Karnov can carry them all (and then some).  We could also get them a few jeeps (probably 4 since their jump packs are heavy).

In C-bills:

Inteks cost 750 less than LRM Launchers (a total of 7,500 saved, or 4,500 if using Taurian organization), while the Heavy Grenade Launchers are 250 more than a Laser Rifle (only 750 extra).  Inteks cost exactly the same as generic Laser Rifles.

Lyran jackets are 350 each, or 437.5 with camouflage (which is worth a +1 to be hit in the appropriate terrain, a total bargain).  Lyran helmets are 300, where Kurita ones are only 200 (the difference is mostly down to included electronics; the Lyran ones have IR and Night Vision, but also the best protection).

Load Bearing Packs, Compasses and Basic Field Kits are 10 C-bills each, and Rangefinding Binoculars and Solar Rechargers are 200.  Vibroblades are 100 each.

Elmoth

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #65 on: 21 November 2018, 10:52:12 »
JUst to clarify what I thought when I started the thread.

As far as I know (and I might be really wrong here) the MUL is constructed for Alpha Strike, not classic battletech or ATOW. Alpha Strike is a MUCH simpler system than either of the 2 other core games supported by Catalyst. As such, the level of detail that you seem to be searching for is simply not there. The basic parameters of AS unit definition seem to be:

1. 1 hit point per 5 tons. Mor eor less half those points are armor and the other half is internal structure.
2. Add together all the weaponry that can shot at short medium and long range. Max out their damage. Divide that total by then: tha tis the number for damage. So if at medium range a Vindicator can shot a PPC (190 max damage), LRM5 (5) and ML (5), the vindicator will do 2 points of damage at medium range.
3. Add some fancy special rules.
4. Movement to hit modifier depending on how fast the unit is in terms of CBT.
And that is more or less it. Then there are other parameters that influence how the mech is designed, but a wolverine and a shadow hawk are not significantly different. 

The idea of using MUL costs was because they are easy and easily accessible to everybody (online resource) and correspond well with a simple 100 point system :) And the units are defined in broad strokes, not detailed. What we end up is knowing that we have "a platoon of laser armed jump infantry". We add the extra parameter "they are competent". And that is it. Their exact equipment is not there except the fact that they have lasers and they jump :) So, the idea of the whole thing is that we have a framework for the troops available. Exact details are totally open to each gaming group that wants to contribute to the story.


Once you use those on the battlefield you can micromanage them as much as you want happily, especially if you use rulebooks other than Alpha strike. My groups will do that if we play any of the smaller scale ops, for example. In the se cases you are just "limited" by the fact that we have a unit of competent laser jump infantry. Exact equipment is up to you to run the escenario. :) You could give them flashlights and springs in their feet (it fits the broad description). Or you can go the way you are going. Both approaches are 100% fine. My table uses a VERY simple RPG system (in our grognard age we do not like rulebooks with more than 3 or 4 pages of actual rules) so the level of detail you are using would not suit us. It is fantastic, and we will certainly use this kind of stuff for descriptive details, but not for actual rules. For us a laser rifle is a laser rifle. And the rules are the same as those of a slugthrower and a pulse laser rifle: a 2 handed big stick that throws death at your enemy when you pull the trigger :) 


The rules seem to have worked well enough in constructing a unit collaboratively, and the resources that we ended up with seem sensible. I like that :) But there is A LOT of margin for personal interpretation and actual game usage.

Sounds fair?

Cheers,
Xavi

AlphaMirage

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #66 on: 21 November 2018, 11:21:06 »
JUst to clarify what I thought when I started the thread.

As far as I know (and I might be really wrong here) the MUL is constructed for Alpha Strike, not classic battletech or ATOW. Alpha Strike is a MUCH simpler system than either of the 2 other core games supported by Catalyst. As such, the level of detail that you seem to be searching for is simply not there. The basic parameters of AS unit definition seem to be:

The rules seem to have worked well enough in constructing a unit collaboratively, and the resources that we ended up with seem sensible. I like that :) But there is A LOT of margin for personal interpretation and actual game usage.

Sounds fair?


Seems fair to me.

I believe that the MUL is there for Alpha Strike since you can print out the cards from the interface without issue. 

For the fluff Daryk you can describe the infantry however you like as long as they are the generic Infantry type described on the card.  I do like the Taurian squad organization though working with the former Aurigonians(?) I don't think it changes their stats in AS but it makes for an interesting IC description.  Maybe they have a turncoat Taurian Sergeant or Lieutenant as a commander.

Elmoth

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #67 on: 21 November 2018, 11:28:51 »
I do like the Taurian squad organization though working with the former Aurigonians(?) I don't think it changes their stats in AS but it makes for an interesting IC description.  Maybe they have a turncoat Taurian Sergeant or Lieutenant as a commander.

Looking at sarna.net, it seems they are organized as 3 squads of 10 (and 6 subsquads of 5), not 4 squads of 7 for a total of 28 men like generic IS infantry. For me, we can run with that.

Daryk

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #68 on: 21 November 2018, 13:51:53 »
Yes, the Taurians use 10-trooper squads, and get three per platoon.  That does simplify equipping them.  I'm about to get on the road for the holiday, but should have internet access on the other end.  We'll see how it goes (I usually have some level of IT maintenance to do where I'm going, so it may not be tonight).

If Alpha Strike really strips out that much detail, that's one more reason I haven't picked it up.  Not all infantry units are created equal.  Going with the Inteks and Auto-Rifles for the foot platoon gets the unit to 2 points of damage at Short and Medium range as a platoon (I think).  Similarly, I think the Jump Platoon gets only 1 point at Short and Medium (since there are 9 fewer of them), but at least they move faster.  I think the armor divisor is critical, even at the Alpha Strike level of detail, as it effectively doubles how much damage the platoons can take.

Nav_Alpha

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- last words of unknown merc, Harlech, 3067
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Kitsune413

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #70 on: 21 November 2018, 19:56:22 »
Man. Not letting a guy get in as a Sea Fox or a Marik Roma. Making life hard in this roleplay.
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Daryk

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #71 on: 21 November 2018, 19:57:23 »
I think that's about what the Alpha Strike stats would look like, but the Heavy Support Lasers are WAY heavier than the Heavy Grenade Launchers (300kg vs. 18kg).  That doesn't explain the full 6 ton mass of the FRR platoon, as per Tech Manual an Anti-Mech Jump Platoon should only weigh 4 tons (and that's rounding up to the nearest half ton).  I have no idea where Sarna got 6 from.  Even adding a ton for the Support Lasers would only get to 5.

For Kitsune413: if an Anton loyalist can get in, a Roma should certainly be able to...

Kitsune413

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #72 on: 21 November 2018, 22:36:47 »
Elite Leader - 20 points
Field Medic x 5 = 10 points
Tech Team - 10 points
M.A.S.H. Truck - 7 Points
Cobra Transport VTOL (MASH version. The one with paramedic equipment) 18. + Competant +10

25 points of supply. (spares.)

Leader - Dr. Lel Kaleja

From the Free Worlds League planet of Marik, Lel came from a technically gifted Roma family. earning a Scholarship to the Princefield Military Academy his grades there qualified him to become one of the League's Field Surgeons. While his academic gifts kept him insulated from the hazing the nobles at the academy meted out upon those born without rank, it still fostered a dislike of nobles in the young man.

After a tour with the League's armed forces he was discovered harboring fugitives from the Marik Civil War and subsequently lost his license to practice. He found his way to a Mercenary hiring hall shortly after that.
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Kitsune413

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #73 on: 21 November 2018, 23:00:59 »
The Cobra might be a problem. It's got two anti missile systems. So that's not ideal. The Kestrel is pretty rare.

The SOAR is a good option: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Soar

But has no point value. (and is incredibly vulnerable to weapons fire.) The BV value of a Cobra compared to a Soar is 12 times more. Soar's have a capacity of 6 people, but 4 are wounded. So 5 Soar's to match up with the field medics would work.
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Daryk

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #74 on: 22 November 2018, 08:30:00 »
A Karnov could work too...

Sharpnel

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #75 on: 22 November 2018, 08:34:04 »
The Cobra might be a problem. It's got two anti missile systems. So that's not ideal. The Kestrel is pretty rare.

The SOAR is a good option: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Soar

But has no point value. (and is incredibly vulnerable to weapons fire.) The BV value of a Cobra compared to a Soar is 12 times more. Soar's have a capacity of 6 people, but 4 are wounded. So 5 Soar's to match up with the field medics would work.
You can strip the AMS off the Cobra and replace MGs or add more cargo/armor. As it would likely be non-combat VTOL, I think we could allow this one minor cuctomization. Then again the Karnov works as well
Takehiro 'Taco' Uchimiya, VND-1R Vindicator 'Taco', Crimson Oasis Trading Company
Tai-i Shizuko Lofgren, Third Infantry Company, Oniwaka
Commandant Cyrus Nickle, ARC-3K Archer, Disposable Heroes
Cassius Bello, SDR-9K Venom 'Cassius', Kowalski's Borderers

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Kitsune413

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #76 on: 22 November 2018, 09:25:38 »
The Karnov needs modified to have paramedic gear on it. But yeah, either way.
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Elmoth

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #77 on: 22 November 2018, 10:25:16 »
OK! A whole medical team! We already had a doctor (from Nav_Alpha) and transport (the jump infantry's karnov was supposed to do that role as a secondary use) but can adapt :) My only thing is that a MASH truck seems a little big for what we are fielding right now, no? 4 mchs, infantry platoon (or 2) and a few vehicles.
EDIT: I just saw that you already took Dr. Max into account in the IC thread. Nice.


BTW: I made ammo cheaper in the original rules. Otherwise energy based mechs had it much better off. They *are* supposed to have it better, but ammo needs to be available. So, for each build point you get 2 ammo, not 1. As usual, this is totally experiemental  an subject to comments.

Cheers,
Xavi
« Last Edit: 22 November 2018, 10:38:08 by Elmoth »

Daryk

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #78 on: 22 November 2018, 10:36:23 »
Nav Alpha, I just looked up several infantry units with an Armor Divisor of 2, and it looks like that gives them 4 armor if they're foot and 3 if they're jump.  Overall, I think what I'm looking at is:

Jump Platoon (3 squads of 7, armed with 6 Inteks and 1 Heavy Grenade Launcher)
Code: [Select]
TP: CI   SZ: 1   TMM: 1   MV: 6"j
Role: Ambusher         SKILL: 4

S (+0)     M (+2)     L (+4)
  1          1          0

A: OOO
S: O

SPECIAL: AM, CAR4

I think the PV would come in around 11 or 12?

Foot platoon (3 squads of 10, armed with 8 Auto-Rifles and 2 Inteks):
Code: [Select]
TP: CI   SZ: 1   TMM: 0   MV: 2"f
Role: Ambusher         SKILL: 4

S (+0)     M (+2)     L (+4)
  1          1          0

A: OOOO
S: O

SPECIAL: CAR3

I think this PV would be in the 7-9 range, but it might be lower.  Going with all Auto-Rifles would drop the range to just S, but boost the damage to 2.

Having gone through this, I think I now see why TPTB haven't answered my errata for the Barrett M42B.  There are published infantry units using it that would drop in damage significantly if the table was corrected (they factored in the Machine Gun mode, and put the weapon in the Standard list vice Support, leaving the Heavy Burst special with it).

Elmoth

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #79 on: 22 November 2018, 10:42:58 »
Reading your posts now. Poor Anton. ;D Now I don't know if he wants to have a tantrum and try to impose his judgement over his betters or make him disappear in the background. Great discussion

Daryk

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #80 on: 22 November 2018, 11:01:47 »
Moro's last hope was the emotional appeal based on Fallone's potential fate.  If that works at the end, hooray... :)

If not, Moro is going to have a less than pleasant conversation with the local Family...

Kitsune413

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #81 on: 22 November 2018, 11:05:01 »
Yeah. I think you should refund the points for Dr. Max since you have to have a medical crew for the Dropship. He can be the doctor of that. He's a useful source of drama since it doesn't seem like he's got the most common sense.

I like the MASH for not taking all the wounded to the Dropship and it can be stored in the cargo bay.

The Karnov for the Jumptroops won't have paramedic equipment.

Ideally I'd prefer to have this thing: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1765/kestrel-vtol-medevac It's a Wolf's Dragoons VTOL but it's been for decades so it's not impossible they'd have them.

The Paramedics are based on the Canopian Medic teams which have two combat medics per squad. I think that's a bit extreme for a mercenary unit even if Lel is training them. Since there are only 4 squads in a platoon I'd probably switch it so that he's got 4 Paramedics which have 6 other riflemen in the platoon. Or a special weapon like a grenade launcher and one paramedic.

If I could switch things more I'd probably go for combat engineers. Also, I think specialized infantry have to be veterans so that's probably hitting me in the MUL point cost.
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Daryk

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #82 on: 22 November 2018, 11:09:22 »
Paramedic gear should be easy enough to stuff into a Karnov.

Kitsune413

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #83 on: 22 November 2018, 11:22:24 »
Paramedic gear attends 10 troopers and costs .25 tons. A full ton of the stuff functions as an additional MASH.

My concern would be that the Karnov can only perform one mission at once. So deploying jump troops/support ties it up.

In-game wise the paramedics are really only going to affect search and rescue portions of the game.
So I imagine my contribution will be ATOW based battles where paramedics matter.
« Last Edit: 22 November 2018, 11:37:36 by Kitsune413 »
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Elmoth

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #84 on: 22 November 2018, 11:36:26 »
Moro's last hope was the emotional appeal based on Fallone's potential fate.  If that works at the end, hooray... :)

If not, Moro is going to have a less than pleasant conversation with the local Family...
We are talking mercs here. they are paid to kill, maim and destroy. I don't know if an emotional appeal will move them very much  :o

Dr Max is cool. I like it, bit I agree that having a full medical team paid up maybe we can keep him as a character linked to the dropship.

It is fine to have the paramedics. I like them. :) And the drop troops will like them even more!!!

I closed the discussion with Kowalski. Feel free to continue with individual leads, the training exercises or a post-training exercise. All would be good here before hitting the thrusters and heading for the prison

Kitsune413

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #85 on: 22 November 2018, 12:34:55 »
It is fine to have the paramedics. I like them. :) And the drop troops will like them even more!!!

I mean I think I'd add a platoon of combat engineers. :) Motorized Infantry using wheeled vehicles.

So those are the changes I think I'll make. I need to build the infantry.

So it would look more like

Lel - 10 points.
Paramedic Squads - 8 points
Combat Engineer Squads (motorized infantry) 16 points.
Kestrel Medevac - 11 points
Mash Truck - 7
Veteran specialized Infantry - 15 points. (Because they have to be.)
Competant Kestrel Pilot - 10 (Because you want him to be.)
Maintenance Crew

Foot Platoon - for Garrison, security. etc. 4 points.

9 points of supply.


Edit: Combat engineers. not medics.
« Last Edit: 22 November 2018, 17:48:49 by Kitsune413 »
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Daryk

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #86 on: 22 November 2018, 13:31:55 »
If the unit (and the GM, of course) bites on the contract "rider", Moro will go in on foot with another infantry squad.  It'll give him a chance to use the Urban Guerilla SPA (i.e., raise the escapees as another squad).  When they get back to Galatea, I figure they can become the "Vedove Nere" squad attached to the unit.

Elmoth

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #87 on: 22 November 2018, 14:16:45 »
The business card had no such extra detail, but he knew if those two didn't die in the course of events, he could expect to.
Sounds cool to me

Daryk

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #88 on: 22 November 2018, 14:19:26 »
Sold... I'll throw together another squad out of the 15 points I had initially kicked into the kitty.

Kitsune413

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Re: Collaborative Merc Unit
« Reply #89 on: 22 November 2018, 15:09:41 »
Stefano dealing with that in for life trait...
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