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Author Topic: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise  (Read 37384 times)

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1020 on: 15 July 2019, 19:31:34 »
I actually have a half-finished model of a WoB blue-water warship for a long-deceased campaign (the one used to test the webbed campaign from CamOps actually)... a bone-white Tenryu-class light cruiser (Tatsuta, to be specific). The weapons were going to be swappable for a pair of AA turrets from Partisan AA vehicles from MWDA, while a pair of MWDA missile turrets would give the ship its big artillery weapons. Another pair of gun mounts (I don't think I made a final decision on them) would have replaced the torpedo mounts as well.
blue-water?  Aside from the Wyrm-Class  SDS Submersible Fortress, i didn't think there were any.  Though i'd love see some invented! Hope you post it else where so we can see them.
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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1021 on: 15 July 2019, 20:05:59 »
I have a hard time believing a battleship can ever be considered "culturally insensitive"...  ^-^

Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1022 on: 15 July 2019, 20:27:54 »
blue-water?  Aside from the Wyrm-Class  SDS Submersible Fortress, i didn't think there were any.  Though i'd love see some invented! Hope you post it else where so we can see them.

Huh?  We have roughly 6 warships mentioned along with the one pictured in Campaign Ops- though its not spec'd out.
Luftenburg carrier
Jormungand cruiser (BC really)
Rapier destroyer
Andryusha frigate (converted Rapiers)
Rapier based carrier design (ex-Duladier)
Lysander sub carrier (armed tender)
Meabh cruiser
Cliona light cruiser (unspec'd, at least 3)
Wakamiya destroyer (salvage/logistics specialist)

Oddly enough I do not recall seeing any blue water surface ships for the League though I am sure there has to be one . . . Lyrans on the other hand get 4 ships they build during the League and afterwards.
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Weirdo

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1023 on: 15 July 2019, 21:24:20 »
I have a hard time believing a battleship can ever be considered "culturally insensitive"...  ^-^

I can think of a few. But even if I'm wrong, it speaks very well of Liam that he bothered to ask. :thumbsup:
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1024 on: 15 July 2019, 21:34:49 »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Mikasa

What do you think? Too culturally insensitive?  ;D
I can think of a few. But even if I'm wrong, it speaks very well of Liam that he bothered to ask. :thumbsup:
I don't think it's an issue.  Mi casa su casa after all.

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1025 on: 15 July 2019, 22:33:35 »
Oddly enough I do not recall seeing any blue water surface ships for the League though I am sure there has to be one . . . Lyrans on the other hand get 4 ships they build during the League and afterwards.
The Argo-Class Submersable Aircraft Carrier, it was in the Housebook: Marik.  It was like first Support Vehicle made if i'm not mistaken (which i likely am).  The Kraken Unleashed mercenary company bought one and transported it to a Liao planet they were contracted to defend and then sold it to them.
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Weirdo

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1026 on: 16 July 2019, 00:37:44 »
I kitbashed one out of a Typhoon, long ago. I should dig it out and spruce it up.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1027 on: 16 July 2019, 04:02:00 »
So, a totally serious and not at all humorous question.  ;)

One of my recent denizens of the deep periphery worlds was based loosely on imperial Russian culture, and I noted in the description that they built small battleships for their oversized sea going navies.

I decided I wanted to get a properly scaled model kit to represent it on table top, and I wanted it to be a pre-dreadnought to go with the whole Imperial Russian feel.

The one ended up finding on Amazon and buying was a 1/700 scale model of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Mikasa

What do you think? Too culturally insensitive?  ;D

Not too insensitive but it does look wrong :p The Russian ships of that period were a curious mix of French designs and American as well as some home grown influences. That one's entirely British :D The largest distinct group of battleships at Tishuma was the Borodino class battleship



Which were based on the French made Tsesarevich but with various changes to the design that basically made the whole class one of the worst classes of Pre-dreadnoughts ever made. Basically the idea the Russians had was take the Tsesarevich, lighten it, make it faster. To do so they thinned the armour belt to little over 7 inches to save weight as well as other internal changes, all with the idea of saving weight to get speed up. At which point the ships came in about 3,000 tons overweight as the design was changed again and again and other things were altered like adding far more opulent features in the officers messes and quarters (the mess had a marble floor). This added weight pushed the ships lower in the water, partially submerging the armoured belt, leaving more of the more thinly armoured hull exposed. They also had the pronounced tumblehome of the Tsesarevich and all the issues that come with it when you start flooding.

This issue was made worse during the journey to the Far East, as the ships were so hugely overloaded with coal that the added weight of all that shoved the armour belt below the water. Also as the coal bags were stored everywhere, it left coal dust spread throughout the ships.
And coaldust is HELLA flammable and hecka explosive, as was ably demonstrated by this...'clever' Australian.

https://imgur.com/gallery/DIahVSh

That's a coal dust flash fire. If there's enough coal dust, that turns into an explosion. Now imagine ship corridors filled with coal dust, and painted with oil based paints being exposed to high explosive shells.



« Last Edit: 16 July 2019, 14:17:40 by marauder648 »
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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1028 on: 16 July 2019, 07:49:05 »
Pre-Dreadnought Battleship, SMS Brandenburg, in 1895, she survive in service until 1920 until she was scrapped.  She was sent help deal with the Boxer Rebellion in China 1900, but she and her sistership and number others part of the German Expeditionary arrived as the problems in Peking had been resolved.  By World War I, she was obsolete, but used in reserve squadrons, training, experimental roles, and was deactivated number times, but was reactivated for the War.  However didn't see much action was eventually taken out front line service.

Its a shame the picture wasn't in color, the ship apparently is in blue gray paint scheme when a ship is station in homewaters.

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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1029 on: 16 July 2019, 08:45:57 »


Something like that?

I also loved the old Imperial Russian paint scheme

« Last Edit: 16 July 2019, 08:51:02 by marauder648 »
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1030 on: 16 July 2019, 12:55:48 »
That's a coal dust flash fire. If there's enough coal dust, that turns into an explosion. Now imagine ship corridors filled with coal dust, and painted with oil based paints being exposed to high explosive shells.
RMS Lusitania called, according to Bob Ballard.  So did USS Maine...

kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1031 on: 16 July 2019, 13:04:59 »
Something like that?
Nah, that one's sort of the 1930s interpretation of what was originally the white-yellow "tropical" paint scheme (which until 1910 all German ships deploying overseas ran, the Imperial Yacht until 1914). The original white-yellow scheme consisted of all-white below the reling and yellow for stacks, turrets and similar "exposed hardware" above that (except gun barrels, which were white).

"Bluegrey" is just a blueish tinted dark grey, Color RAL7031.




MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1032 on: 16 July 2019, 13:50:47 »
Could we not post the rapidly flashing strobe-like gifs?  Those things give me a headache.

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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1033 on: 16 July 2019, 14:17:59 »
Could we not post the rapidly flashing strobe-like gifs?  Those things give me a headache.

Fixed :)
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1034 on: 16 July 2019, 14:58:50 »
So i just found out SS Nomadic, the tender that was intended to serve White Star Lines big three, Titannic, Olympic, and Britannic is still around as a museum.

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Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1035 on: 16 July 2019, 15:57:57 »
Its been a tour option for a few years . . . is the WWI destroyer at the quay still being refurbished?  I cannot remember if it was at the Titanic museum or further up the road where the . . . passenger terminal was?  It would have been behind the picture taker.  The destroyer had been a training ship in WWII IIRC, and into the 50s.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1036 on: 16 July 2019, 21:06:17 »

Our Officer's Club is better than your Officer's Club.

Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1037 on: 17 July 2019, 02:43:10 »
RMS Lusitania called, according to Bob Ballard.  So did USS Maine...

Lusitania was probably a coal dust explosion but the UK didn't really help matters about the accusation that she was carrying ammunition by using her as a depth charging target post war, wrecking the wreck even further.

Maine was definately a coal dust explosion that kicked off her magazine.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1038 on: 17 July 2019, 03:17:41 »
Dust explosions are fun like that.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1039 on: 17 July 2019, 12:05:33 »
Its been a tour option for a few years . . . is the WWI destroyer at the quay still being refurbished?  I cannot remember if it was at the Titanic museum or further up the road where the . . . passenger terminal was?  It would have been behind the picture taker.  The destroyer had been a training ship in WWII IIRC, and into the 50s.

AFAIK it has been restored. Actually, it is a WWI Cruiser, survivor en Jutland. The Caroline.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1040 on: 17 July 2019, 12:48:06 »
Yeah all I could remember was the ship had a woman's name, the wife & I were in Belfast in '15 . . . it was in pretty rough shape but being worked on at the time but we found out there would be a effort to preserve.  I would argue she has not been preserved, just repaired since it still seems to have some of the later 'upgrades' for her role as a training ship.

Found this online, somewhere I have the same picture-

Looks like a lot of folks took pictures of it while visiting the Titanic embark dock.

News article about the authorization in '15 showed a close look at deterioration-


Old photo of its looks


Some plans


and a link to the original plans, too big to include and I cannot scale it down here-
http://www.rmg.co.uk/sites/default/files/styles/banner/public/J9113copy_0.jpg?itok=QiXNAIUf




So the C-class & Town-class light cruisers were very similar, but the later C class survived to WWII with the Bristols scrapped in the early 1920s . . . which is interesting is b/c there is only about 5 years between the classes.  From what I read the Bristols had more armor, but the placement caused them to be bad gun platforms . . . which was not helped by the guns just having shields rather than turrets.  The early Cs had their guns upgraded during WWI but the Bristols did not- makes me think the design was sort of written off b/c of how the armoring plan worked out.
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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1041 on: 17 July 2019, 13:03:03 »
They STILL haven't restored HMS Caroline?  I posted that picture of it's aft like six odd months ago.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1042 on: 17 July 2019, 13:43:20 »
No, its been repaired, but NOT restored . . . and lots of those type pictures floating around, I took one that was much the same and there were several that were similar when I looked online.  The one I posted was back in '15 I think.  The current images do not show the rust, lol.
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grimlock1

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1043 on: 17 July 2019, 13:58:50 »
No, its been repaired, but NOT restored . . . and lots of those type pictures floating around, I took one that was much the same and there were several that were similar when I looked online.  The one I posted was back in '15 I think.  The current images do not show the rust, lol.
I'm a bit fuzzy on the nuance between the two.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1044 on: 17 July 2019, 14:03:18 »
Restored: They put the ship back to her original condition. See in the photos above how the old version is sleek and streamlined, while the current shots have those big bulky deckhouses and such? A restoration would put her back to her original config.

Repaired: The damned thing won't sink today!
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1045 on: 17 July 2019, 16:15:38 »
Restored: They put the ship back to her original condition. See in the photos above how the old version is sleek and streamlined, while the current shots have those big bulky deckhouses and such? A restoration would put her back to her original config.

Repaired: The damned thing won't sink today!

Actually, Krupp (oh, the Irony!) built the new barrels. And they are NOT mockups.
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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1046 on: 17 July 2019, 16:19:57 »
The irony indeed... on SO many levels!  :D

Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1047 on: 17 July 2019, 16:35:04 »
Sure, but she is not back to her 1920 condition before she was transferred to be a training ship.

Though I will give you its a bit odd to buy new gun barrels- do they meet spec?- while leaving that added superstructure hunkering on the deck.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1048 on: 17 July 2019, 17:15:33 »
Sure, but she is not back to her 1920 condition before she was transferred to be a training ship.

Though I will give you its a bit odd to buy new gun barrels- do they meet spec?- while leaving that added superstructure hunkering on the deck.

Yes, it is a bit odd. At least she is in a good condition now.

https://www.nmrn.org.uk/exhibitions-projects/hms-caroline/hms-caroline-experience
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1049 on: 17 July 2019, 18:23:21 »
Lusitania was probably a coal dust explosion but the UK didn't really help matters about the accusation that she was carrying ammunition by using her as a depth charging target post war, wrecking the wreck even further.
I'll definitely agree with Ballard about stuff like that, the man knows his wrecks.  But there's a lot of competing theories, and history is never made of a single event but a nice little tapestry of charlie-foxtrots woven together.  Data from the Royal Artillery Regiment confirms that the munitions she was carrying were actually live, powdered and fuzed, and the magazine was just forward of the coal bunker and also in the apparent strike area of the torpedo.  Ballard's theory goes with the torp hitting just aft of the magazine, since he found no torpedo damage at the forward end of the magazine itself (but doesn't rule out a strike at the rear, or on the bulkhead between the bunker and magazine) hence the coal explosion.

There's also powdered aluminum that was being transported as well, which aerates into a fuel-air explosive as well if sufficiently disturbed.  Worth consideration is a bomb aboard the ship that detonated sympathetically - there was the Black Tom explosion caused by German agents, and just after Lusitania sailed, three German spies were arrested with a camera aboard the liner.  Their mission was never learned, but the thought is that a bomb was placed aboard to deal with the illegal munitions shipments to the Brits.  Wouldn't be the first time, and they were caught onboard.

I suppose, with all the salvage attempts, the damage from the depth charges, the fishing gear, and the overall structural failure of the ship plus the rapid state of decay, there's not really going to be a way to find out what happened.

 

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