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Author Topic: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise  (Read 56332 times)

Sabelkatten

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1320 on: 27 August 2019, 15:30:15 »
I was thinking more along the line of dropping the above mentioned DM2A4 hours ahead of an enemy force and have it loiter until the enemy gets there, rather than actively hunting for them.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1321 on: 27 August 2019, 15:55:13 »
Airborne torpedoes you say...



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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1322 on: 27 August 2019, 15:58:29 »
I prefer this way:


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dgorsman

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1323 on: 27 August 2019, 16:23:25 »
I prefer this way:


Gloriously absurd.  Was watching that just the other day.   :thumbsup:
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kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1324 on: 27 August 2019, 16:42:21 »
I was thinking more along the line of dropping the above mentioned DM2A4 hours ahead of an enemy force and have it loiter until the enemy gets there, rather than actively hunting for them.
The original idea Atlas Elektronik had was making their torpedos viable for a defense from the shoreside. As in:
  • a truck launcher deploys the torpedo, which initially deploys from this launch on its standard fibreoptic cable until target is found by other sensors
  • truck points the torpedo in target direction which it runs towards until cable is dropped; from here on a regular DM2A4 would go into active hunt mode automatically
  • instead the coast defense version would keep going, regularly popping up to low depths to receive midcourse updates via satcom towards the moving target
  • once within reliable sensor bubble move to active hunt mode to kill target
The system differs from a standard DM2A4 in having an enlarged battery (it's a modular amount, depends on what the customer wants), the satcom system and some electronics adaptions for improved autonomous navigation and targeting logic.

Technically nothing there stopping such a torpedo from also:
  • being deployed by a submarine or other vessel over a distance of say 20-30 miles at low speed into a target area, then dropping the cable and the deploying vessel moving away.
  • then waiting there for a few hours regularly getting updates by satcom on whether the enemy is moving "into its arms" - or maybe whether it should relocate itself 10 miles south now to be in a better position for that.
  • waiting for the order to start the active hunt, as well as which target to go for specifically.

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1325 on: 28 August 2019, 19:06:00 »
Boat. :)
Boat has oars!

Since you guys are posting anime pictures.  This is a real battleship they used as model for this anime. 
Does anyone know which battleship this thing modelled from?  It looks like a Pre-WW2 ship, but not a predreadnought. I think she British

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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1326 on: 28 August 2019, 20:12:58 »
Boat has oars!

Since you guys are posting anime pictures.  This is a real battleship they used as model for this anime. 
Does anyone know which battleship this thing modelled from?  It looks like a Pre-WW2 ship, but not a predreadnought. I think she British


I want to say a QE or Reveng. Kongo is a possibility but this show the rear turrets and they're not far apart.
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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1327 on: 29 August 2019, 01:14:23 »
Superstructure of a KGV and turrets of a QE, I want to say...

chanman

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1328 on: 29 August 2019, 03:01:43 »
Superstructure of a KGV and turrets of a QE, I want to say...

That would be a pretty good way to describe the Vanguard

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1329 on: 29 August 2019, 04:41:25 »
That would be a pretty good way to describe the Vanguard

I don’t think the deck matches the Vanguard.

Looks more like a Queen Elizabeth-class Battleship.

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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1330 on: 29 August 2019, 08:15:43 »
The big mast is a big giveaway, that's no Vanguard, its either a Queen Elisabeth or possibly the Hood. *edit* Looking at the hull you can see the cut away for the secondary battery casemates, that's a QE.

Also you might like this

https://imgur.com/gallery/ahWpG2N

Air dropped smoke screen for the battle line.
« Last Edit: 29 August 2019, 08:21:14 by marauder648 »
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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1331 on: 29 August 2019, 09:40:43 »
marauder is right, I didn't notice the casemates

and I forgot about Vanguard entirely or I'd have picked her :D

got to brush up my recognition skills!

marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1332 on: 29 August 2019, 10:05:13 »
What anime is it from?
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1333 on: 29 August 2019, 11:01:07 »
I studied Titanic since I was a little kid, even before Ballard found her - my father worked on the 1980 film as a model maker, building the miniatures for the submarines, and I heard all about it when I was young.  Now it seems...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidbressan/2019/08/22/first-images-after-15-years-document-decay-of-the-titanic/#2d5c80245f21

These might be some of the last photographs of the wreck in any recognizeable shape.  It's losing a hundred pounds of iron a day just to iron/manganese/sulfur-eating bacteria, and has already started to collapse in places - things like the captain's tub have disappeared into the debris.  The aft section was always little more than crushed steel, but even the forward section that landed upright in the seabed is losing its integrity.  It's expected to have collapsed into a simple debris pile by 2025, and not long after that become little more than a "rust stain" on the bottom.

I suppose the shoes, at least, will remain alongside the glass of the portholes, scattered about.
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1334 on: 29 August 2019, 11:05:37 »
The big mast is a big giveaway, that's no Vanguard, its either a Queen Elisabeth or possibly the Hood. *edit* Looking at the hull you can see the cut away for the secondary battery casemates, that's a QE.


the bow shape match QE, it's not a clipper bow like Hood.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1335 on: 29 August 2019, 11:30:20 »
Yeah, I heard they were talking about that . . . though to be fair, IIRC it was the depth with its temperature & low oxygen content which preserved her for so long.  With the frequent (for the purpose anyway) study of the wreck, I do wonder if its given us a good measuring stick for the decay of that era ships- basically how much longer will we have the sunken wrecks of WWI & WWII ships?  Finding the sunken carriers from the Pacific theater recently has been pretty cool- though I do want to say they seemed to be in better condition than the first images I remember of the Titanic with its rust-cicles.

Unfortunately if the metal is all eaten away . . . I fear the scavengers will pick over the remains even more.  How much could they sell a complete setting (or even just a portion) of the ship's 1st Class china?

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1336 on: 29 August 2019, 11:42:24 »
I suppose the shoes, at least, will remain alongside the glass of the portholes, scattered about.

Funny, how little we know about the Deep Blue. In flatter seas, like the North Sea or the Baltic Sea, organic material like shoes, would be first to vanish.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1337 on: 29 August 2019, 12:04:38 »
Its depth . . . BUT . . . IIRC the War of 1812 schooners they uncovered in the Great Lakes area still had bones buried where the silt had covered the hull.




Thanks to the rise of the robots, we are finding and exploring all sorts of 'missing' ships-
https://beta.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/29/arctic-canada-hms-terror-found-frozen/
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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1338 on: 29 August 2019, 12:19:14 »
I just hope scavengers aren't bagging the wrecks when their found.  There been wrecks in the pacific going missing, suspicions that's their scavengers using data from discoveries..
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Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1339 on: 29 August 2019, 12:33:14 »
Well, typically 'lost' ones are going to be pretty deep . . . the scavengers taking the steel and what not are surface divers.  BUT . . . I know a high end operation went after the Titanic to sell artifacts . . . heck, I think they brought up steel cable and cut it into chunks to sell.
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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1340 on: 29 August 2019, 14:57:57 »
I believe other artifacts have also been found stolen. I wonder how they did it. The Pacific wrecks were a mere trip to the beach by comparison.

Pity, the Titanic is a story that really captures one's imagination, even without the benefit of the movie. It was also the first model I assembled, a huge half meter paper thing with cross sections.

But oh, well... time just moves on. There's only so long you can be attached to things.

marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1341 on: 29 August 2019, 15:05:18 »






And many more here -https://imgur.com/gallery/xGmDORg
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1342 on: 29 August 2019, 16:15:48 »
I believe other artifacts have also been found stolen. I wonder how they did it. The Pacific wrecks were a mere trip to the beach by comparison.

Pity, the Titanic is a story that really captures one's imagination, even without the benefit of the movie. It was also the first model I assembled, a huge half meter paper thing with cross sections.

But oh, well... time just moves on. There's only so long you can be attached to things.

Problem with the Titanic is it does not fall under any treaties IIRC and it is in international waters . . . so while it maybe morally repugnant, its not illegal depending on the country the salvage ship is flagged from.  IIRC they KNOW who made the first scavenger dive.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1343 on: 29 August 2019, 16:20:21 »
Oh, Terror, that reminds me, I still need to watch the second season.
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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1344 on: 29 August 2019, 17:52:05 »
@marauder - those sexy, sexy, Queen Anne's citadels...

Problem with the Titanic is it does not fall under any treaties IIRC and it is in international waters . . . so while it maybe morally repugnant, its not illegal depending on the country the salvage ship is flagged from.  IIRC they KNOW who made the first scavenger dive.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1345 on: 29 August 2019, 17:57:30 »
Public domain knowledge.

Quote
Between 25 July and 10 September 1987, an expedition mounted by IFREMER and a consortium of American investors which included George Tulloch, G. Michael Harris, D. Michael Harris and Ralph White made 32 dives to Titanic using the submersible Nautile. Controversially, they salvaged and brought ashore more than 1,800 objects.[41] A joint Russian-Canadian-American expedition took place in 1991 using the research vessel (ROV) Akademik Mstislav Keldysh and its two MIR submersibles.

Wiki entry

Remember Telly Savalas "opening" a safe on national TV, only to reveal nothing of interest? That safe had been spotted by the Ballard expedition in the debris field; the back had rotted/rusted off. So not surprising.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1346 on: 29 August 2019, 18:05:01 »
I remember reading an article on it years ago . . . I want to say they hit the Titanic between two of Ballard's trips.  Let me see what I can find . . .

Found this which covers legal moves (https://www.gc.noaa.gov/gcil_titanic-salvage.html) . . . then some translation from a Russian article about Ballard accusing the French & Russians.  Apparently the Russians were offering tours for 35k a pop early in the century.
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worktroll

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1347 on: 29 August 2019, 18:17:42 »
Tours, fine. Salvage ...

Look, I'm OK with the concept of raising non-personal items from the debris field. There was a great Titanic exhibition here. They had a piece of the hull, about 10'x10', that came out of the break in the hull. It was chilled to near zero, and you were allowed to touch it. They had pieces of coal, also spilled.

But breaking things in the main pieces? When Ballard dived, the lookout telephone was inside the crow's nest. The foremast had been swept back over the bridge. Later, the IFREMER people displayed the lookout phone as a salvaged item. On Ballard's next trip, the crow's nest had been torn apart. Coincidence? I think not. Plus damage to the deck where the 'salvage' minisub had landed during the operation.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1348 on: 29 August 2019, 19:36:00 »
Yeah, I have been to one of the traveling exhibition shows and at the Titanic museum in Belfast . . . hmm, I cannot find my few photos.  The museum is so good we both got involved in the exhibits and forgot to take photos.

But like I said, I find it morally repugnant for grave robbers to dive to retrieve things like the china sets, wine bottles and other things that are on the bottom.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1349 on: 29 August 2019, 20:06:37 »
Funny, how little we know about the Deep Blue. In flatter seas, like the North Sea or the Baltic Sea, organic material like shoes, would be first to vanish.
Tanned leather.  The stuff is quite repulsive to organic contamination, since they weren't exactly using the gentlest of chemicals and techniques in 1912.  You can see some "clothes" as well that are probably similarly tanned leather coats or tarps that were about.

For the record, tours are still being offered, first dive to run next year.  And the French pretty much made off with the whole crows' nest, it's just plain gone.  There's a number of places on the wreck where Ballard and company found damage from salvors, either resting their submarines on the wreck (why for the love of god would you risk JOINING her on the bottom) or else thumping into it unintentionally.

Titanic Inc. has been doing a lot to prevent further salvor dives, and there is an 'agreement' if not an outright treaty between the Americans, Brits, and Canadians put through on the centennial of the sinking.  In all honesty, that's about as effective as a treaty that the moon is made of cheese, since it's not like we can station guards or anything at the site.

As far as Halomonas titanicae goes, it's a neat little bacteria - an extremophile, one that thrives only in extreme salt environments, and was completely new.  The thing goes after manganese and sulfur, from what I've read, and provides its own heavy oxidation to dissolve and eat these compounds.  It's also got a unique molecule that changes its structure from regular bacteria enough so that it can live at that pressure.  It can't have been recently introduced, since Ballard and company found its presence quite heavy in 1985.

It means that 100-pounds-a-day figure's been going on since early on...36,500 pounds of steel a year being dissolved, over as much as a century...is it any wonder the wreck's becoming a literal ghost on the seafloor?  Add in the pressure of a consistent 1.5kt seafloor current pressing on the hull as it weakens.

Thank god Ballard found her when he did.  Otherwise Titanic would be one of the great maritime mysteries, in a few more years.
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