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Author Topic: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise  (Read 94870 times)

I am Belch II

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1380 on: 01 September 2019, 12:16:43 »
any more info on this? # of troops, scheme of deployment?

Could carry up to 67 troops dropped off some SEALs in the Vietnam War.
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beachhead1985

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1381 on: 01 September 2019, 15:17:01 »
Could carry up to 67 troops dropped off some SEALs in the Vietnam War.

Man, that is really cool! I'll need to get a book on that.
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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1382 on: 02 September 2019, 20:50:26 »
Though cancelled, the Class was reworked and essentially downsized to what became the Nelson Class.  Known only as the N3-Class Battleships.  They were victims of the Washington Treaty.  Had they had been built, they could have been most powerful battleships of their time.   Four ships, were to be 48,500 tons, armed with 3 3-barreled 18 inch guns arranged same way as Nelson-Class ships were with eight twin barrel 6 inch guns as secondary batteries and assortment of large caliber aa-guns and even 21inch  torpedoes.

This is composite of what ships would have look like using a re-edited image of HMS Nelson.


Nelson's had mechanical difficulties and were slow due to post-war standards. So they were ultimately scrapped after the war. Having read about N3, i was curious if the ships would have had made a difference.   Sure the AA weapons would have been not enough, but it could have..maybe?
« Last Edit: 02 September 2019, 20:55:24 by Wrangler »
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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1383 on: 03 September 2019, 01:34:05 »
IIRC the plan for the N3's was a 25 knot speed, their armour would have been near Yamato levels too. She'd have been faster than the nelsons but not too fast, only 2 knots, which would have limited her utility later as she'd be slower than any canon threat like the Bismarck or anything in the Italian fleet. But it was also the fact that with her 18-inch guns and hella thick armour, if she did catch something, she'd kill it.
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1384 on: 03 September 2019, 03:34:31 »
Given the state of British finances at the time the N3s might arguably have hurt the navy. After all it would have left less money for lighter ships that turned out to be more useful in WW2.

I am Belch II

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1385 on: 03 September 2019, 19:56:52 »
Always liked the high freeboard on some British ships. Seemed out of water more and looked cool.
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hoosierhick

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1386 on: 04 September 2019, 17:33:52 »
How about a picture of....a book?

I found a copy of Norman Friedman's U.S. Cruisers: An Illustrated Design History for a reasonable price online last week.  It just showed up today.  I'd love to say what ship (or ships) are on the cover, but I honestly don't know.  I guess I'll find out when I read it.   ;)


Ruger

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1387 on: 04 September 2019, 18:28:10 »
How about a picture of....a book?

I found a copy of Norman Friedman's U.S. Cruisers: An Illustrated Design History for a reasonable price online last week.  It just showed up today.  I'd love to say what ship (or ships) are on the cover, but I honestly don't know.  I guess I'll find out when I read it.   ;)



Looks like a Portland-class heavy cruiser, I believe. If so, it’s either USS Portland or USS Indianapolis.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1388 on: 04 September 2019, 20:17:55 »
Lucky fellow, I've been looking for Friedman's British Cruisers for a while.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1389 on: 04 September 2019, 20:40:03 »
Cyclone-Class Patrol Ships

These ships were used during the 90s to now.  However, to me, like Pegasus Class before them, small ships in the US Navy never popular.
Originally these ships were intended for Special forces, to deliver SEALs and other special forces.  However, they were too big and unfortunately they suffer from Hull fatigue.

A number of them have been deployed to the Persian Gulf, however these small ships have mainly been used as drug interdiction in Florida. 
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Sharpnel

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1390 on: 05 September 2019, 03:06:28 »
Also, some of them were seconded to the US Coast Guard in that interdiction mission. One has been sold off to the Phillipine Navy
« Last Edit: 05 September 2019, 03:08:32 by Sharpnel »
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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1391 on: 05 September 2019, 05:44:39 »
Speaking of the N3 here have some 'what if's





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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1392 on: 05 September 2019, 07:16:19 »
OMG, the N# would have been an ugly ship. A horrible layout for the battery and the superstructure is horrid as well.
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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1393 on: 05 September 2019, 07:46:05 »
OMG, the N# would have been an ugly ship. A horrible layout for the battery and the superstructure is horrid as well.

The G3 was the same, just double funnels instead. And yeah the amidship turret does offer advantages (shortening the main belt thus saving weight) but the blast of 16 and 18-inch guns would make it unwise to fire that outside of anything but a broadside.
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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1394 on: 05 September 2019, 08:04:33 »
Plus a time bomb with torpedoes hitting that thing at mid-ship. Looks terribly vulnerable to a attacking from behind too.  Like no anti-ship weapons aft.

I hadn't seen pictures of what G3 looked like.  Then again, its properly just as effective as Nelson, as long they get their target on the ship's broadside.

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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1395 on: 05 September 2019, 09:16:09 »
Plus a time bomb with torpedoes hitting that thing at mid-ship. Looks terribly vulnerable to a attacking from behind too.  Like no anti-ship weapons aft.

I hadn't seen pictures of what G3 looked like.  Then again, its properly just as effective as Nelson, as long they get their target on the ship's broadside.





The G3's would have been the equivalent of an Iowa class ship, in the 20's. 32  knot, 16-inch gunned battleships but with Nelson level armour protection (if not more).
« Last Edit: 05 September 2019, 09:18:28 by marauder648 »
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I am Belch II

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1396 on: 05 September 2019, 10:19:03 »
The what if photos are great, almost looks like it was really built.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1397 on: 05 September 2019, 10:32:38 »
Today is the 238th anniversary of the Battle of the Chesapeake, without which Washington could never have won Yorktown.

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Sharpnel

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1398 on: 05 September 2019, 11:32:37 »
Today is the 238th anniversary of the Battle of the Chesapeake, without which Washington could never have won Yorktown.


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hoosierhick

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1399 on: 05 September 2019, 11:35:17 »
Lucky fellow, I've been looking for Friedman's British Cruisers for a while.

No kidding.  I've had it in my Amazon wishlist for quite a while, but it's always been more than I was willing to spend  (around $100 or more).  When I saw it for $60 I jumped on it.  And it's the Indianapolis on the cover.

hoosierhick

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1400 on: 05 September 2019, 11:37:07 »
Cyclone-Class Patrol Ships

These ships were used during the 90s to now.  However, to me, like Pegasus Class before them, small ships in the US Navy never popular.
Originally these ships were intended for Special forces, to deliver SEALs and other special forces.  However, they were too big and unfortunately they suffer from Hull fatigue.

A number of them have been deployed to the Persian Gulf, however these small ships have mainly been used as drug interdiction in Florida.

Somewhere I have pictures of the Pegasus class that I took in the late 80's in Key West, Florida. I'll have to see if I can find them.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1401 on: 05 September 2019, 11:59:20 »
Today is the 238th anniversary of the Battle of the Chesapeake, without which Washington could never have won Yorktown.



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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1402 on: 05 September 2019, 13:13:02 »
I used to own Friedman's cruiser and battleship volumes, and they were fantastic- a victim of a long-ago move, sadly. Someday I'd like to replace them (and grab the matching carrier and destroyer volumes), but alas, IWM keeps making miniatures, and my wallet weeps.  ;D
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1403 on: 05 September 2019, 17:59:39 »
Funny, whenever I see some of those photos of ships of the line, I have Monte Markham narrating in my head...

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1404 on: 13 September 2019, 04:09:31 »
A private dive team has found the last American warship sunk off the US east coast in WWII - solving a 75-year-old naval cold case.

The sinking of the USS Eagle PE-56 was first deemed an accident until new evidence established it had been hit by a German submarine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49050972?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c514kvxzj20t/shipwrecks&link_location=live-reporting-story
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CrossfirePilot

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1405 on: 13 September 2019, 23:39:23 »
I've been watching a bit of Silent Service (1950s show recounting WW2 USN sub warfare exploits). Here's a question to air out to the group.  Why didn't WW2 submarines dispense with the deck gun? I would have thought that planners would have seen that taking off the deck gun would cut down on hull drag and free up weight for more torpedoes, fuel, etc?

Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1406 on: 14 September 2019, 00:09:07 »
The deck gun was actually really useful.

U-boats are most often used as commerce raiders. Just a couple of good hits from a deck gun would hole and thus probably sink a merchant ship, and submarines carried ten times as many shells as a torpedo. It was a very economical weapon.

Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1407 on: 14 September 2019, 02:25:49 »
That, and USN torpedoes in WWII were notoriously unreliable.

marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1408 on: 14 September 2019, 03:23:26 »


HMS Victory leads the fleet in the persuit of Admiral Villeurve across the Atlantic, one of the few times that 1st rate ships went that far. Most of the time, 1st rate Battleships tended to stick to home waters.
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hoosierhick

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1409 on: 14 September 2019, 09:22:06 »
The deck gun was actually really useful.

U-boats are most often used as commerce raiders. Just a couple of good hits from a deck gun would hole and thus probably sink a merchant ship, and submarines carried ten times as many shells as a torpedo. It was a very economical weapon.

The gun was also useful for targets that had either too shallow of a draft for a torpedo to work or were otherwise too small to use a torpedo on.  Plus taking the gun off wouldn't gain you any more torpedos.  It would save some weight, and some magazine space for the shells but the magazine wouldn't be big enough for an extra torpedo or two.  Not to mention the magazine space for the shells was situated to pass shells up to the gun, not forward/aft to the torpedo rooms.

 

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