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Author Topic: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise  (Read 94873 times)

Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1410 on: 14 September 2019, 09:28:29 »
I believe a gun also made the one train kill a sub claimed possible...  ^-^

Sabelkatten

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1411 on: 14 September 2019, 09:41:12 »
According to Wikipedia the kill appears to have been made by a shore party. But there were lots of other times the gun proved useful.

Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1412 on: 14 September 2019, 09:46:01 »
I stand corrected!   :thumbsup:

hoosierhick

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1413 on: 14 September 2019, 11:58:11 »
I believe a gun also made the one train kill a sub claimed possible...  ^-^

That was a landing party off the Barb.  They were trying to blow up the railroad, and got lucky when a train came along. Edit:  If I had read past the first post on the page, I might have seen that was already pointed out.   If I remember right they also made the first submarine launched (from the surface) rocket attack in combat.

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1414 on: 14 September 2019, 13:52:48 »
Here interesting photo, USS Iowa BB-61, leading surface group, with old Pegasus-Class PHMs escorting.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1415 on: 14 September 2019, 14:08:47 »
Random picture came up.



Admiral Kuznetsov seems not to been abandoned. The Russians rebuilding it.  A Russia news source said its due back in service, 2021. I'll believe it when its sails.
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truetanker

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1416 on: 14 September 2019, 14:11:38 »
They should just make it a Battle-Carrier instead...

You know, half carrier and half battleship, at least it'll be useful later on.

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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1417 on: 14 September 2019, 14:48:21 »
I believe the technical term for that is "Battlestar" :D

truetanker

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1418 on: 14 September 2019, 14:54:09 »
Naw... Basestar, remember there the Cylons of Earth!

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1419 on: 14 September 2019, 16:07:05 »
They should just make it a Battle-Carrier instead...

You know, half carrier and half battleship, at least it'll be useful later on.

TT

It is one right now. Remember, Kuznetsov has a battery of REALLY BIG anti-ship missiles. It's why the ship is classed as an Aviation Cruiser instead of a Carrier, and thus legally able to cross the Bosporus.

Granted, trying to go halvsies like that seems be very detrimental to both sides. Kuznetsov is a huge ship, but with direct firepower on par with a cruiser(albeit a Russian one), and we all agree it sucks as a carrier. As I understand, even before all this damage there were plans to remove the missiles to improve the aviation capabilities.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1420 on: 14 September 2019, 16:39:20 »
Weren't the engines out, when the dry dock failed on them?
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truetanker

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1421 on: 14 September 2019, 17:55:05 »
Reminds me of Mack Maloney's Wingman Series.... of which the star of the series instigated a series of tugboats pushing and pulling a defunct Aircraft Carrier to launch across the Atlantic Ocean from America to the Mediterranean Sea.

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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1422 on: 14 September 2019, 19:19:24 »
Last I'd heard, yeah, the props were removed at the time PD-50 sank.  Maybe the current repair work is just to reinstall them so that they can get her underway and not have to tow the thing around half the planet to get to its other drydock.

Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1423 on: 14 September 2019, 23:29:32 »
My eyes need a tetanus shot just looking at that thing.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1424 on: 15 September 2019, 04:59:37 »
I thought the SS-19 Missiles from the  Kuznetsov  were removed to have more space for the planes??
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kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1425 on: 15 September 2019, 05:18:50 »
That was claimed ten years ago.

However the missile tubes are over 50 meters forward of the hangar, and if they removed the tubes to "have more space for planes" that'd mean really major internal reconfiguration. Which, uh, no. They're probably empty - or the missiles rusted in place - but those tubes are probably still there.

Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1426 on: 15 September 2019, 05:29:40 »
Here interesting photo, USS Iowa BB-61, leading surface group, with old Pegasus-Class PHMs escorting.



I spy an Oliver Hazard Perry and Charles F Adams in the background there.

Bit of a blast from the past... :)

Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1427 on: 15 September 2019, 05:32:38 »
And now another blast from the past:


ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1428 on: 15 September 2019, 05:52:13 »
That was claimed ten years ago.

However the missile tubes are over 50 meters forward of the hangar, and if they removed the tubes to "have more space for planes" that'd mean really major internal reconfiguration. Which, uh, no. They're probably empty - or the missiles rusted in place - but those tubes are probably still there.

Looking at this, the missile tubes are a little bit forward of the deck widening, and just aft of the ramp.  Looking at that picture of Special K laid up, it looks like there's been work done in that area - it seems to be in the same spot as some of the "lighter colored rust" is.  What it really is, I don't know; it may be that the missiles and launch systems were pulled while the structural components remain as a weight saving measure, but I don't see any sign of doors in that deck.  I won't say they should be visible, but you'd expect to see some kind of coloration difference in the surface, between the cover of the hatch and the regular flight deck.

Guess the Brits are gonna be dealing with smokers on their porch in the future.

Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1429 on: 15 September 2019, 05:59:28 »

Looking at this, the missile tubes are a little bit forward of the deck widening, and just aft of the ramp.  Looking at that picture of Special K laid up, it looks like there's been work done in that area - it seems to be in the same spot as some of the "lighter colored rust" is.  What it really is, I don't know; it may be that the missiles and launch systems were pulled while the structural components remain as a weight saving measure, but I don't see any sign of doors in that deck.  I won't say they should be visible, but you'd expect to see some kind of coloration difference in the surface, between the cover of the hatch and the regular flight deck.

Guess the Brits are gonna be dealing with smokers on their porch in the future.

The image up thread show what is likely to be the outline of missile launch doors, resolution is a bit too low to really see too much though. Doesn't surprise me if they removed fire control and targeting, but left the missile silos, those silos would penetrate multiple decks and probably contribute significantly to structural strength.

We had an FFG cross the bight with the launcher removed, it didn't end well. :P

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1430 on: 15 September 2019, 06:01:16 »
It is one right now. Remember, Kuznetsov has a battery of REALLY BIG anti-ship missiles. It's why the ship is classed as an Aviation Cruiser instead of a Carrier, and thus legally able to cross the Bosporus.

Granted, trying to go halvsies like that seems be very detrimental to both sides. Kuznetsov is a huge ship, but with direct firepower on par with a cruiser(albeit a Russian one), and we all agree it sucks as a carrier. As I understand, even before all this damage there were plans to remove the missiles to improve the aviation capabilities.
Yes, that was in 2012, the SS-N-19 "Shipwreck" (P-700 Granit) were scheduled to be removed and MiG-29K were to replace the older planes. But then came the operations in the Levante and now the dock incident, so no one knows what's next.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1431 on: 15 September 2019, 08:04:29 »
We had an FFG cross the bight with the launcher removed, it didn't end well. :P
Yeah, Shipreck/Granit is a big bloody missile; 33 feet should punch a hole through four decks easily just for the missile alone.  Add in all the blast deflection, structural mounts, and so on, I'd not be surprised if that box goes all the way to the waterline.

As for that fig, I hear a story lurking there.

Luciora

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1432 on: 15 September 2019, 10:30:04 »
My eyes need a tetanus shot just looking at that thing.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1433 on: 15 September 2019, 10:56:06 »
Reminds me of Mack Maloney's Wingman Series.... of which the star of the series instigated a series of tugboats pushing and pulling a defunct Aircraft Carrier to launch across the Atlantic Ocean from America to the Mediterranean Sea.
and somehow managed to operate a wing of non-naval aircraft off the catapults and traps on the thing.

dgorsman

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1434 on: 15 September 2019, 12:09:37 »
The space in the structure could still be usable e.g. aviation fuel bladders.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1435 on: 15 September 2019, 12:16:16 »
Wingman was the novelization of a cartoon show that never existed.

Meanwhile, the Russians trotted out their new toy, leading the recent fleet parade.

Corvette Gremyashchiy in front, with what look like small but decently useful VLS cells for a 24 missile main armament and a 100mm gun for primaries.  Decent corvette, I suppose.

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1436 on: 16 September 2019, 07:55:38 »
i know the Admiral Kuznetsov's sister ship never had them installed, the Liaoning.



Which makes her a better ship, since she has no business to getting into ship-to-ship combat range! "Your a carrier! Getting focus carriering!" 

She training ship now until the bigger boats get online.  Her near-sister ship is on verge of being commissioned, only known as the Type 001A.


As of August 2019, she still going on Sea Trials, her 5th one as of August.  She didn't show up for the big PLAN sea view, so she must still have some issues to work out still.

« Last Edit: 16 September 2019, 15:22:30 by Wrangler »
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worktroll

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1437 on: 16 September 2019, 13:58:59 »
i know the Admiral Kuznetsov's sister ship never had them installed, the Liaoning.

Which makes her a better ship, since she has no business to getting into ship-to-ship combat range! "Your a carrier! Getting focus carriering!" 

Special K was never meant to be a fleet carrier, in the US mega-carrier context. IIRC, her job was to sink US carriers. So presumably she'd sortie her planes, then send the Granits after them, timed to take the lead before the planes were in range of the carrier's defense ring.

Remember, the Soviets were going to be happy if they sank the US carriers. Getting their own planes, ships, or crews back to dock was not necessarily considered important.
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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1438 on: 16 September 2019, 14:48:52 »
IINM the job of Kuznetsov, and before her the Kievs, was to hold the Barents Sea. Not sure if they were even meant to venture as far south as the Norwegian sea.

Her aircraft wing was meant to give local air superiority. Her missiles were for taking out anything that came at her. In a sense, that makes her more of a defensive mobile "anti access" platform, rather than a strike weapon like US carriers are.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1439 on: 16 September 2019, 14:58:43 »
Her aircraft wing was meant to give local air superiority. Her missiles were for taking out anything that came at her. In a sense, that makes her more of a defensive mobile "anti access" platform, rather than a strike weapon like US carriers are.

Which was sort of the doctrine of the Red Fleet- surface fleet keeps the USN/NATO at arms length during WWIII, does show the flag/flexing during peace time.  The HK subs being a different beast, but they were still a outgrowth of the Army's overall strategy.
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