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Author Topic: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise  (Read 68900 times)

Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #540 on: 01 March 2019, 21:07:08 »
Wikipedia identifies THREE ships named USS MARBLEHEAD.  The most likely suspect is:
"USS Marblehead (C-11), launched in 1892, was a Montgomery-class cruiser. She served in the Spanish–American War and was sold in 1921"

I'm going with the wind not cooperating with the camera regarding that Jack...

Feenix74

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #541 on: 01 March 2019, 21:26:47 »
Quite possible a trickery of old photography or as it is a shipyard they could just be using an old, out of date jack . . .
Incoming fire has the right of way.

The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly fire.

Always remember that your weapon was built by the lowest bidder.


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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #542 on: 01 March 2019, 22:01:35 »
That's a definite possibility too...

Feenix74

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #543 on: 01 March 2019, 22:25:50 »
It that is the case, then it is probably more likely it is USS Marblehead (C-11), laid down in 1890 and launched in 1892 than for it to be the USS Marblehead from 1922.
Incoming fire has the right of way.

The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly fire.

Always remember that your weapon was built by the lowest bidder.


                                   - excepts from Murphy's Laws of Combat

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #544 on: 02 March 2019, 00:06:05 »
Sorry for the mix up, i should suspected it the issue when i saw the bow.  Also the shipyard was dirt!  xp
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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #545 on: 02 March 2019, 04:51:00 »
German K130 are being expanded to ten, steel has been cut on the next batch of five. There's of course the French-Italian FREMM programme with a planned layout of 20. Or the Italian PPA multi-outfit "light frigate" at 10 units planned. For submarines the Type 212 with 10 in the water will end up at around 18 units with current plans between Germany, Italy and Norway.

We'll get higher raw production numbers when the MCM vessels are up for replacement next decade. Benelux is in the market for a dozen, with a 3700t (!) multi-role design likely to win. Germany will order 11 in 2-3 years, with the only design decision so far being "considerably larger than what we have".
Didn't know about the PPA and K130s, I split up joint procurement.

"Considerably larger than we expected" seems to be the remarks for a lot of European ship programs coming out.

BTW, got any good info links for the F126 Saxony class?

kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #546 on: 02 March 2019, 06:47:01 »
BTW, got any good info links for the F126 Saxony class?
You mean MKS180? That's still what it runs under officially ;)

Other than the latest cost estimate in September pushing it to 1.5 billion USD per ship... not much. Design requirements are basically identical to F125 with doubled flexdecks (with modules including ASW and MCM) and added AAW at minimum Layer 2 (ESSM Block 2) as well as a ton of growth potential in outfit (which F125 doesn't have, it's at its limit designwise from the start).

Since it's a design-to-cost project we basically only have the government's requirement set and the cost limit, and the companies can do with it what they want. It's by now basically a runoff between two consortiums, GNYK/TKMS and Damen/B+V, to build it.

Some design decisions are being taken outside the project itself, for example industry cooperation agreed upon with Norway as part of a submarine deal included the future standard surface-attack missile that will be mounted on MKS180 - basically an upgraded NSM derivative that will integrate German requirements on navigation and ECCM and have a range of minimum 300 km.

Sachsen/Saxony is the name of the F124 class btw, so MKS180 will not have that name.
« Last Edit: 02 March 2019, 06:49:09 by kato »

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #547 on: 02 March 2019, 11:18:04 »
Speaking of a different F-126, exHMS Plymouth.  Rothesay-Class Frigate.

She was built in the 1950s, where she and her other 12 sister ships served around world during the Cold War era.
Her most notable action was during the Falklands War in 1982.



Despite being decommissioned in 1988 and preserved for number of decades, her trust to keep her from scrap yard rand out and unfortunate was scrapped in 2014.
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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #548 on: 02 March 2019, 16:46:09 »
TIL just how special the Special K is, on the inside as well as on the outside



You mean MKS180? That's still what it runs under officially ;)

Other than the latest cost estimate in September pushing it to 1.5 billion USD per ship... not much. Design requirements are basically identical to F125 with doubled flexdecks (with modules including ASW and MCM) and added AAW at minimum Layer 2 (ESSM Block 2) as well as a ton of growth potential in outfit (which F125 doesn't have, it's at its limit designwise from the start).

Since it's a design-to-cost project we basically only have the government's requirement set and the cost limit, and the companies can do with it what they want. It's by now basically a runoff between two consortiums, GNYK/TKMS and Damen/B+V, to build it.

Some design decisions are being taken outside the project itself, for example industry cooperation agreed upon with Norway as part of a submarine deal included the future standard surface-attack missile that will be mounted on MKS180 - basically an upgraded NSM derivative that will integrate German requirements on navigation and ECCM and have a range of minimum 300 km.

Sachsen/Saxony is the name of the F124 class btw, so MKS180 will not have that name.
Ah okay. So no winning design chosen yet?

NSMs? not RBS-15?

kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #549 on: 02 March 2019, 17:26:27 »
Ah okay. So no winning design chosen yet?
Nope. They're expected to ask for final offers from bidders sometime around now.
NSMs? not RBS-15?
RBS-15 Mk4 apparently never went anywhere useful with Saab, so as part of the recent submarine deal (joint procurement of Type 212CD by Germany and Norway) they agreed as georeturn to buy a NSM derivative from Kongsberg; that one is now planned to be deployed on MKS180, F125 and F124 classes while the K130 will keep their RBS-15 Mk3 - got a stock of that with some shelf life after all. It'll be a derivative since vanilla NSM doesn't fit some of the German requirements (mostly navigation and attack patterns, that's more of a software issue) and because we want a range envelope that at least matches RBS-15 Mk3.

NSM has the benefit of technically being adaptable to helo launch as well, and the industry cooperation for the derivative includes development of a sublaunched version.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #550 on: 02 March 2019, 18:08:13 »
Kidd, makes you wonder just how flammable all that crap in the engine room is, and how small a mistake she is from an inferno...

Feenix74

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #551 on: 02 March 2019, 18:19:04 »
Net, it is all nonflammable, we use the good genuine asbestos from Sverdlovsk Oblast. We also take safety seriously, see we have safety rails. ???
Incoming fire has the right of way.

The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly fire.

Always remember that your weapon was built by the lowest bidder.


                                   - excepts from Murphy's Laws of Combat

Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #552 on: 02 March 2019, 18:52:58 »
Kidd, makes you wonder just how flammable all that crap in the engine room is, and how small a mistake she is from an inferno...
In Soviet Russia, ship sets you on fire!

DoctorMonkey

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #553 on: 02 March 2019, 19:29:15 »
Net, it is all nonflammable, we use the good genuine asbestos from Sverdlovsk Oblast. We also take safety seriously, see we have safety rails. ???


In Soviet Russia, ship sets you on fire!


You not need worry about smoke inhalation kill you, asbestos kill you instead
Is good da?
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kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #554 on: 02 March 2019, 19:44:28 »
On a serious note, when i was in service we once got the special job of having to remove asbestos parts (insulation of exhaust pipes) from a series of mobile boilers. As in three dozen of them. Took a couple days. Another time we had to sort tents by production year... because everything before June 1962 would have to be removed due to PCB.

Gloves and mask on. Didn't bother to fully suit up, that was in the middle of summer. The not so fun part of being in NBC Defense. And yes, that was during this century.

Feenix74

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #555 on: 02 March 2019, 20:58:51 »
Yep, here in the facilities management industry we are still dealing with the asbestos legacy . . . everything from loose fill asbestos insulation blown into ceiling cavities (it seemed like a great idea at the time), asbestos lagging around heating/cooling pipework, asbestos filled fire doors, to asbestos cement comms pits, to asbestos in vinyl/linoleum flooring and the glue used in flooring, to asbestos in window putty/sealant, . . . the list just seems to be endless and in my organisation we have probably another 10-20 years work before it is mostly gone from our facilities.

Anyway back to boats:

When I served at RAAF Base Williamtown, this sign was at Fern Bay on the road back to the city of Newcastle:



A few years later the bulk carrier Pasha Bulker ran aground at Nobby's Beach Newcastle during a storm:

« Last Edit: 02 March 2019, 21:00:56 by Feenix74 »
Incoming fire has the right of way.

The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly fire.

Always remember that your weapon was built by the lowest bidder.


                                   - excepts from Murphy's Laws of Combat

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #556 on: 02 March 2019, 21:38:12 »
Reminds me of when the bulk carrier New Carissa ran aground near Coos Bay, Oregon in 1999.



Then it broke apart.  The bow was towed out to sea (twice, the line broke the first time), and the fuel in the stern was burned off.  A decade later the stern was dismantled.



Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #557 on: 02 March 2019, 21:47:15 »
The grounded ship reminds me of thing that i happened to witness.  I was in the US Navy in early 90s, my ship was redirected to Straits near i think Thailand, where two freighters had collided.  It was bad, someone died. they brought his body on.  one the cargo ships was cut in half was sinking, while other half was still afloat.

I did take pictures with my old school film camera, have no clue what happened to them.  Its was sobering stuff to see at barely 20 years old see people die in collision like that.  I was bit fascinated part of the ship was still afloat. I think it was the bow.  Stern has sunk of one of the ships.
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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #558 on: 03 March 2019, 03:50:11 »




That's the bow of the MS Stockholme after she rammed the Andrea Doria.  In reality it was a miracle that so few lives were lost when the Andrea Doria went down.
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #559 on: 03 March 2019, 04:12:58 »
"Funniest" story I've heard about ships coming apart was a Russian (of course...) freighter about 15 years ago. She was stopped from leaving a Swedish port after IIRC reports that she was leaking fuel oil.

When she was inspected they found that the hull was essentially cracked in two. The bulkheads was all that was keeping the ship in one piece! Needless to say the ship never got to sail anywhere again! :D

About Stockholm, my father took working passage aboard her to the US. And checking Wikipedia she's still in service as a cruise ship!

Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #560 on: 03 March 2019, 04:18:57 »
The grounded ship reminds me of thing that i happened to witness.  I was in the US Navy in early 90s, my ship was redirected to Straits near i think Thailand, where two freighters had collided.  It was bad, someone died. they brought his body on.  one the cargo ships was cut in half was sinking, while other half was still afloat.

I did take pictures with my old school film camera, have no clue what happened to them.  Its was sobering stuff to see at barely 20 years old see people die in collision like that.  I was bit fascinated part of the ship was still afloat. I think it was the bow.  Stern has sunk of one of the ships.

That would probably be the Malacca Strait, it's the worlds busiest waterway. When we move through there we tend to go at breakneck speed, to minimise the chance of getting hit. :P


ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #561 on: 03 March 2019, 05:39:41 »
Gloves and mask on. Didn't bother to fully suit up, that was in the middle of summer. The not so fun part of being in NBC Defense. And yes, that was during this century.
It's not just ships.  Bovington's got at least one tank (Japanese IIRC, it was in a recent Tank Chat) that's chemically sealed shut because it's full of that stuff; it's on display but they won't even open it for pictures in a controlled environment.  Nasty stuff.

Anyway, back to ships.  There's a new expedition to research RMS Titanic in June, focused on scanning and modeling the debris field as well as what they can get of the bow and stern.  Recent discoveries have determined that there's an iron-consuming bacteria taking the thing down much faster than expected, and it's expected to completely collapse in the next twenty to thirty years.  That's not counting the damage from submarines landing on or colliding with the wreck, several of which have done visible damage.  Most notably, the crows' nest Frederick Fleet made his famous call from, is gone now.

Øystein

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #562 on: 03 March 2019, 08:51:27 »
The Ingstad has been lifted onto the barge and is now being towed to it's home base of Håkonsvern.

I am Belch II

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #563 on: 03 March 2019, 09:56:50 »
Is the Ingstad a write off or is it going to be repaired.
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Øystein

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #564 on: 03 March 2019, 10:39:44 »
Not been decided yet, but I think since it took so long to get it up (it collided back in november) that the sea damage is so extensive that she might be written off - maybe used as parts or target practice.

Wrangler

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Øystein

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #566 on: 03 March 2019, 10:57:28 »
We'll see. the problem with buying a one-of-a-kind type is the lack of interoperability between vessels when it comes to parts etc.

Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #567 on: 03 March 2019, 11:10:16 »
I shudder to think what this little bump has done to Norway's defence budget, procurement and force generation cycles...

Anyway... French shore battery at the Port of Valletta, Malta, fires at 1 of Nelson's blockading ships, 1800 (colourised)

« Last Edit: 03 March 2019, 11:11:48 by Kidd »

truetanker

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #568 on: 03 March 2019, 23:46:28 »
I believe a Carl Gustaf return fire could react to that faster than the chainball from yonder fort...

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Sharpnel

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #569 on: 04 March 2019, 02:44:02 »
I shudder to think what this little bump has done to Norway's defence budget, procurement and force generation cycles...

Anyway... French shore battery at the Port of Valletta, Malta, fires at 1 of Nelson's blockading ships, 1800 (colourised)


I'd hate to see what 32pdr would do to a modern aluminum vessel
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