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Author Topic: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise  (Read 46411 times)

glitterboy2098

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #630 on: 06 April 2019, 18:58:57 »
The Dreadnought has 12 Misslle tubes, vs the 16 in the Vanguard. The new Columbia SSBN will have only 16 vs the 24 in the Ohios.
the missiles are more accurate and can pack more MIRVs in though than when the Vanguards and Ohios were designed, so the reduction in number probably doesn't make much of a difference in strategic firepower. especially since the cold war MAD scenarios are at a lower ebb now and you don't need the same degree of extreme overkill.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #631 on: 06 April 2019, 22:30:38 »
Any bets they'll work up a cruise-missile launcher to fit into the tubes, like the Ohio's Multiple-All-Up-Round Canisters?

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #632 on: 07 April 2019, 03:57:40 »
Any bets they'll work up a cruise-missile launcher to fit into the tubes, like the Ohio's Multiple-All-Up-Round Canisters?
Fairly low. While the most recent batch of Virginia class boats does have missile tubes in the bow for the VLS, the work required to convert a SLBM tube to a SLCM MAC tube is extensive, and requires a fair amount of ballast to be installed.

Here at USS John Warner (SSN-785)'s commissioning, the forward muzzle hatch is open.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #633 on: 07 April 2019, 04:48:47 »
Any bets they'll work up a cruise-missile launcher to fit into the tubes, like the Ohio's Multiple-All-Up-Round Canisters?


After reading the Haynes manual to the Astute class SSN I found it interesting to read why they did not add dedicated cruise missile tubes and instead would launch cruise missiles from the 4 torpedo tubes:


1) submarine launched anti-ship missiles are less useful with the rise of better and better anti-missile systems so you don't necessarily want to carry so many
2) more holes in the pressure hull makes more points of weakness so they try to minimise the numbers
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #634 on: 07 April 2019, 20:39:30 »
My dad is cleaning out some of his stuff and found a pic of this ship that he was sent to take a tour on when he was stationed out in Long Island in the mid 60s.  Funny thing was that he was a radar tech in the Air Force working on F101's and F102s.

(please forgive the sideways pic. I have resaved this thing several times with a 90 degree rotation added, but for some reason it keeps posting sideways)
« Last Edit: 07 April 2019, 20:50:35 by CrossfirePilot »

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #635 on: 07 April 2019, 21:43:21 »
Looks like it was one of the radar warning ships.  You can find some crazy projects from the late 50s and early 60s in a effort to build a defense in depth with radar pickets to see further over the horizon from the continent.  They all died out as tech advanced to sats- orbit is a great observational point.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #636 on: 07 April 2019, 22:11:00 »
I did a little research on it.  It was one of a dozen or so radar picket ships converted from old liberty ships.  They were actually under Airforce command and control due to they would be used to direct interception aircraft.  F101s, F102s, F106s, etc.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #637 on: 08 April 2019, 10:17:21 »
Fairly low. While the most recent batch of Virginia class boats does have missile tubes in the bow for the VLS, the work required to convert a SLBM tube to a SLCM MAC tube is extensive, and requires a fair amount of ballast to be installed.

Here at USS John Warner (SSN-785)'s commissioning, the forward muzzle hatch is open.


The work for a retrofit is considerable, but if they build the modularity in, it may not be so bad. I know "MAC" means Multiple All-up-round Canister, but what does the "all-up-round" part meant?  I'm guessing "round" means it's fitting in the round hole left by the missile, but the rest confuses me.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #638 on: 08 April 2019, 12:11:57 »
The work for a retrofit is considerable, but if they build the modularity in, it may not be so bad. I know "MAC" means Multiple All-up-round Canister, but what does the "all-up-round" part meant?  I'm guessing "round" means it's fitting in the round hole left by the missile, but the rest confuses me.
An All Up Round (AUR) is a containerized missile that just needs to be plugged into the ship's systems to be ready to launch. Everything (guidance system, electronics, flight control surfaces) is in a capsule and ready to go.

The SSGN conversions were to get the remaining useful life out of 4 large capital assets. The missile control centers were revamped, and the tube electronics were extensively changed; I don't know the exact differences, as I never went to the right school. Considering the conversions and work ups took about four years each, I doubt a "modular" design for conversion would be economical.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #639 on: 08 April 2019, 13:53:02 »
An All Up Round (AUR) is a containerized missile that just needs to be plugged into the ship's systems to be ready to launch. Everything (guidance system, electronics, flight control surfaces) is in a capsule and ready to go.

So, Tomahawks with USB cables? ;)
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #640 on: 08 April 2019, 15:03:43 »
AND the right drivers already installed!  :)

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #641 on: 08 April 2019, 15:43:07 »
Are the all up rounds for the Tomahawks different between what the SSGNs launch and what the VLS in the 688s use?  Or is that "I could tell you but I'd have to kill you" question?  ;)

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #642 on: 08 April 2019, 15:44:21 »
So no AOL, just WINxp... right?

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #643 on: 08 April 2019, 15:47:28 »
AND the right drivers already installed!  :)

Shame they overwrote the DLLs for the nuc pot ...
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #644 on: 08 April 2019, 18:36:29 »
Since we were talking about future of the US Navy.

One of the candidates for the design, F-100 Class Aegis Frigates of the Spanish Armada.


Frigate Méndez Núñez.   

I think this is has the most potential, it's shame the Frigates will mandated to have 57mm cannon, which i think is lacking for shore-bombardment department.  VLS 32-Cells, really good thing. I do wonder if this is winner, will it have deep enough tubes for tomahawks.
« Last Edit: 08 April 2019, 21:39:03 by Wrangler »
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #645 on: 08 April 2019, 19:43:21 »
Everything forward of that first funnel stack makes me think someone left a Burke in the wash too long.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #646 on: 09 April 2019, 00:32:01 »
Are the all up rounds for the Tomahawks different between what the SSGNs launch and what the VLS in the 688s use?  Or is that "I could tell you but I'd have to kill you" question?  ;)
As far as I know, yes.

And comparing and AUR to a USB drive  :toofunny:

Since we were talking about future of the US Navy.

One of the candidates for the design, F-100 Class Aegis Frigates of the Spanish Armada.


Frigate Méndez Núñez.   

I think this is has the most potential, it's shame the Frigates will mandated to have 57mm cannon, which i think is lacking for shore-bombardment department.  VLS 32-Cells, really good thing. I do wonder if this is winner, will it have deep enough tubes for tomahawks.
I don't know why a USN version wouldn't have a full length VLS installed, other than as intentional crippleware. As for the design preference, I like the Patrol Frigate variant of the Legend class cutter.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #647 on: 09 April 2019, 07:25:58 »
I don't know why a USN version wouldn't have a full length VLS installed, other than as intentional crippleware. As for the design preference, I like the Patrol Frigate variant of the Legend class cutter.
The Legends were built to commercial standards, which is one chief problem with that design.  The militarized version hasn't given much details, i'd image it's classified to quite extent. The Class had alot problems, structural issues which had to be straighten out, there was communication suite defects, but that stuff won't be in the Frigate variant their trying to pitch. The Frigate will be larger, but there still questions about how good it would be.  I think the Navy wants existing design that been thought it, verses a something only been used for police actions not blue water military operations such.    The militarized version (patrol frigate variant) of the Legend doesn't even exist but on paper.

On different vein, apparently Spain is replacing their old Santa Maria-Class (Oliver Perry variant) FFGs with looks like a lesser version of the F-100 Class Aegis Frigates, the F-110.  These ships aren't using Aegis, they're going only have 16-Cell VLS launchers in them verses.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #648 on: 09 April 2019, 07:40:39 »
The militarized version (patrol frigate variant) of the Legend doesn't even exist but on paper.
But then again neither do Austal's or Lockheed's upgraded LCS variants. And given all the teething, and current, issues the LCS program has had, I wouldn't rank those two options very highly either. And with the reported flooding issues of the Helge Ingstad, that's a black mark against Navantia. Fincantieri is the only one putting forth an existing design with, seemingly, no baggage.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #649 on: 09 April 2019, 08:20:38 »
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #650 on: 09 April 2019, 08:29:22 »
"Did someone say 'warship of the future'?"



Jeez that poor guy right down aft...

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #651 on: 09 April 2019, 09:11:49 »
Jeez that poor guy right down aft...
Hope they remember he's out there. Lol (blub blub blub)
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #652 on: 09 April 2019, 10:09:00 »
We used to joke about 'that guy' in my old unit being a disposable mine detector or a single-issue LP/OP.  Imagine getting those kind of jokes as a look out on some of the old subs that actually had conning towers.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #653 on: 09 April 2019, 12:34:03 »
The Spanish Ship Álvaro de Bazán-class frigate contender and the FREMM multipurpose frigate are both large ships well over 6000 tons. I thought they wanted to keep it down in the size department and in with the reduction in size keep the costs down.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #654 on: 09 April 2019, 12:59:40 »
I thought they wanted to keep it down in the size department and in with the reduction in size keep the costs down.
Neither Fincantieri/Naval Group nor Navantia have smaller ships in their portfolio at all at the moment or for the foreseeable future.

Offhand the only (western) company on the entire global market offering something actually in the "desired" range that isn't vaporware and that has previous market exposure is TKMS.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #655 on: 10 April 2019, 15:27:27 »
KNM Helge Ingstad has been getting some field repairs and is fit for duty again  :D :o



It has been patched up so it can sail into the dry dock and be raised up there. All indications is that the ship will in all likelyhood be scrapped.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #656 on: 10 April 2019, 16:30:47 »


Bubbleheads would agree with you that the target is floating again.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #657 on: 11 April 2019, 06:58:15 »

HSwMS Gotland leads the way telling the USS Seawolf (SSN-21) "Your bit noisy, old man." 

Gotland sank the USS Ronald Reagan, pictured behind her in this picture in parade.  It was a war game in 2015, she snuck up on the ship, took pictures with her escorts around and slung off likely sniggering later.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #658 on: 11 April 2019, 14:14:09 »
RAN diesel boats frequently got 'shots' at US carriers in exercises. There's reasons folks worried about Russia selling Kilo class boats to all & sundry.

Unlike nucs, there's no flow noises when sitting still. Gotta keep the kettle simmering. So a quiet diesel with a good crew tend not to leave a hole in the ocean to be spotted.

Of course, in a war situation, it may be worth the surface ships being far more active with the sonar. Yes, tells people where they are, but in many cases they kind of know already.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #659 on: 11 April 2019, 14:40:33 »
Mass media published exercise results of allied diesel-electrics against USN nukes or carrier groups should be taken with a grain of salt.  The other important issue with such incidents is to look at the circumstances/conditions of the situation- location & RoE being big ones.
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