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Author Topic: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise  (Read 94802 times)

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #60 on: 20 November 2018, 15:07:51 »
So the Midway refit caused the rolling?
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grimlock1

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #61 on: 20 November 2018, 15:34:09 »
The Wikipedia entry for the class as a whole has an explanation on the rolling...it was on Midway only and after she was bulged in 1986.

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The article on Midway, herself, mentions the blisters as an attempted fix for "persistent seakeeping issues."  I have found reference to green water coming over the flight deck, as far back as 1945, but I'm looking for a bit more on the why.
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Fat Guy

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #62 on: 20 November 2018, 16:17:28 »
Midway was always somewhat top heavy due to it's armored deck.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #63 on: 20 November 2018, 16:57:19 »
Midway was always somewhat top heavy due to it's armored deck.
That'll throw her center of mass higher up, yeah, and make her rolls worse.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #64 on: 20 November 2018, 17:44:44 »
...yeah, I meant 'unique' more in a 'Germans tried this and nobody else' way.

Actually, AFAIK, the hexagonal arrangement is used in the Kawachi-class, too. Since both of them lacked turbines, they needed more room for machinery. The hexagonal arrangement allowed extra space without turrets and hoists in the middle of the machinery space.

Midway was always somewhat top heavy due to it's armored deck.

It was nicknamed the "Rock and roll carrier" after the second refit. There was even a third refit to correct the problem and it just worsened it. In one storm  she rolled so much that she barely avoided capsizing.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #65 on: 20 November 2018, 18:26:18 »
On that note, Ride The St. Lo! (you must be this tall)

Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #66 on: 21 November 2018, 04:48:55 »
On that note, Ride The St. Lo! (you must be this tall)


First thought, that's not too bad.

Second thought, hang on, that's a carrier!

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #67 on: 21 November 2018, 08:48:27 »
Woah! They need to do some serious tie downs for their aircraft!  I've been on ship pitching before, but not side to side that badly.  Eesh

No wonder the US Navy isn't as interested in smaller carriers (aside from other reasons).  They'd be losing multi-million (billion?) aircraft left and right...


This is an aircraft carrier in rough seas. I can picture if the ship could talk it would be saying "Woah! Sorry guys i'm bit tipsy!"

This Q/A article on Quora had interesting answer about IF  Aircraft Carriers could survive sea states as high as 8 & 9. The answer is NO. 


EDIT: Sorry I linked the wrong picture to my post.  I did mean remain operational launch planes. Again i wasn't clear enough.  xp
« Last Edit: 21 November 2018, 21:43:00 by Wrangler »
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #68 on: 21 November 2018, 09:04:02 »


This Q/A article on Quora had interesting answer about IF  Aircraft Carriers could survive sea states as high as 8 & 9. The answer is NO.
actually, the answer is YES. But the question is can the carrier go through such sea states unscathed? No. And that's what the Typhoon Cobra was.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #69 on: 21 November 2018, 14:25:27 »
"Survive" sure.  "Remain air-operations capable without damage" hell no.

Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #70 on: 22 November 2018, 06:52:51 »
"Survive" sure.  "Remain air-operations capable without damage" hell no.

That's "Remain operational", not "Survive". Survive is maintain watertight integrity, and keep the equipment in working order.

I've been on ships that have barely survived, let alone remaining operational. Sailing through polar storms in the Great Southern Ocean is NOT recommended. :P

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #71 on: 22 November 2018, 10:16:13 »
A Type 55 Guided Missile Destroyer.  This one four ships the PLAN has commissioned as guard ships for their growing Aircraft Carrier groups.
These ships have been compared to Ticos, since their heavy missile tubes, and their tonnage is the 12,000 to 13,000 range.  They've been referred to as Cruisers by some military observers.





By the way, Happy Thanksgiving for everyone who celebrates it!!
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"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

I am Belch II

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #72 on: 24 November 2018, 10:20:44 »
Type 55 has a lot of firepower, with the Aegis. Looks to be a good ship.
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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #73 on: 24 November 2018, 10:29:26 »
Damn that looks like a good slice of pumpkin pie.

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #74 on: 25 November 2018, 00:09:48 »
Damn that looks like a good slice of pumpkin pie.
Personally i like those bridge wings myself.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #75 on: 25 November 2018, 09:23:20 »
Back to pictures...

This is the Sagiri, she was one of Japan's Fubuki-class destroyers authorized in the in 1920s. In there time, they were regarded as the most powerful destroyers in the world. Her class weighted in at max at 2,000 tons, for its weight it was speedy with maximum speed at 38 knots if she didn't have worry about refueling.  Her main batteries consisted of 6 x 127mm cannons in twin turrets (1 forward, two aft), nine torpedo tubes, 36 depth charges (isn't that alot?) and with 30 mixed caliber of light arms meant to shoot down aircraft.

She was part of the task forces attacking Pearl Harbor and was assisting in the invasion of various islands during the first years of the war.  She was sunk by unlikely ally ship.  Dutch Submarine, the  HNLMS K XVI , which her torpedoes detonated Sagiri's aft magazine. However, the submarine didn't fair well as in next day K XVI was sunk by Japanese Submarine the next day.

"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #76 on: 25 November 2018, 11:30:26 »
36 depth charges (isn't that alot?)
Depends on how they're laid out. As built the Fubukis only carried 18 (ONI says 14) in racks of nine (or seven) for two depth charge throwers. Late during the war two additional racks and throwers were added.

British destroyers built around the same time typically carried either 20 or 30 depth charges for ASW-focussed ships (B- and D-class) in throwers with racks of ten each.
French destroyers combined chutes with racks of eight to ten with throwers with racks of three each for e.g. 32 on the Chacal class as built - these were slightly larger than the Fubukis at 2100t standard.

Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #77 on: 30 November 2018, 11:07:03 »
Food for thought

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/25218/we-have-the-first-official-report-on-norways-sunken-frigate-and-it-isnt-pretty

TIL the lead ship of the class preceding the Fridtjof Nansens, the HNoMS Oslo, also ran aground and sank in 199-something.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #78 on: 30 November 2018, 14:00:44 »
Unsealed propeller tunnels is definitely a scary thing, considering that the damage was at the tail end of the ship and the flooding spread through there all the way to midships.  No wonder it went down with that level of damage, it was like Titanic springing leaks across half her length.  Just, this time from the inside, through the shaft runways instead of the hull.

Bad news for the F-100s if it's a design fault, or else the Norwegians haven't been keeping up their maintenance properly.

JadeHellbringer

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #79 on: 30 November 2018, 14:02:28 »
That would sink it, no doubt. Hard to stop that kind of flooding under even the best circumstances (and these definitely weren't!).
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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #80 on: 30 November 2018, 14:13:27 »
Yeah, but that cause of accident though:

"Yeah hi Tanker, this is Frigate, we're getting awfully close, so you go here and I go there and we'll be cool, aright?"

"Gotcha Frigate... uhhh, aren't you gonna veer off like we said?"

"Naw man it's cool, we've got room, I'm just gonna pass this here long low building between us first"

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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #81 on: 30 November 2018, 14:27:11 »
Yeah, but that cause of accident though:

"Yeah hi Tanker, this is Frigate, we're getting awfully close, so you go here and I go there and we'll be cool, aright?"

"Gotcha Frigate... uhhh, aren't you gonna veer off like we said?"

"Naw man it's cool, we've got room, I'm just gonna pass this here long low building between us first"

"...what long low building are you talking about?"

"Oh, fudge nuggets"

Not a word of it is untrue, and it's got me laughing hard enough that my chest hurts. Bravo, sir, you win an internet cookie.
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DoctorMonkey

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #82 on: 30 November 2018, 18:03:40 »
This won't be helping sales of the F-100 derivatives will it?


I doubt the Australians will go for more than their current 3 Hobart class and I doubt the bids for Canadian or US frigates-of-the-future will be helped


Reading the linked report, it sounds like a couple of major errors in ship handling that will probably be career ending for a few officers but I don't like the sound of the failures of damage control and containment


I suspect everyone else will be looking at their ship design to see what they can learn too
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Cannonshop

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #83 on: 30 November 2018, 20:37:41 »
Food for thought

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/25218/we-have-the-first-official-report-on-norways-sunken-frigate-and-it-isnt-pretty

TIL the lead ship of the class preceding the Fridtjof Nansens, the HNoMS Oslo, also ran aground and sank in 199-something.

In valhalla the builders ancestors gaze upon this, and palm their faces in shame.
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #84 on: 30 November 2018, 22:32:05 »
In valhalla the builders ancestors gaze upon this, and palm their faces in shame.
And remember they crafted such amazing boats out of planks on top of each other using simple tools including ax, what a work of art the Longboat is.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #85 on: 01 December 2018, 00:29:31 »
And remember they crafted such amazing boats out of planks on top of each other using simple tools including ax, what a work of art the Longboat is.

proof that ancient Scandinavians would never have made that kind of design error;



these were the original frigate, able to go anywhere.
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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #86 on: 01 December 2018, 02:31:12 »
Crane on site, waiting for better weather. Here's hoping.


Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #87 on: 01 December 2018, 21:36:21 »
This won't be helping sales of the F-100 derivatives will it?


I doubt the Australians will go for more than their current 3 Hobart class and I doubt the bids for Canadian or US frigates-of-the-future will be helped


Reading the linked report, it sounds like a couple of major errors in ship handling that will probably be career ending for a few officers but I don't like the sound of the failures of damage control and containment


I suspect everyone else will be looking at their ship design to see what they can learn too

DC is the first step to losing. There isn't a single ship today that can remain operationally capable after a major DC incident, while it remains a high training priority and can keep a crew alive and a ship afloat after major damage, ships are pretty useless after major compartments are lost.

The thing that concerns me about this is the reliance on AIS. It's a good system for what it is, but it's not a navigation system! Vessels still need to use their organic sensors to detect and track all contacts and should be constantly watching CPA of every closing contact in confined waters. A warship that can't watch four contacts in a confined waterway and move to avoid them is no warship.

The design issues can be resolved in due course, but the training issues need to be resolved immediately, they are the ones that will cause major loss of life.

Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #88 on: 05 December 2018, 11:17:48 »
Update

"Missiles have been removed from sunken #Norwegian #frigate #HELGEINGSTAD. This is the salvage plan: fuel is removed, chains placed under the ship; crane ship lifts the frigate into a flooded floating drydock which is pumped out to take the frigate to base"







source: https://twitter.com/CavasShips/status/1070184442818453504/photo/1

truetanker

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #89 on: 05 December 2018, 19:16:59 »
Where's Dirk Pitt and Al Giordino of NUMA?

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