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Author Topic: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise  (Read 73798 times)

Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #960 on: 12 July 2019, 04:44:40 »
It's sad, but there it is. Nightlord01 is right.

Contributory also is that locals may not value the wrecks as highly as the ships are not theirs. Matter of fact.

It would be nice to be able to say all fallen servicemen could be recovered and repatriated, but not even their home nations have the resources.

Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #961 on: 12 July 2019, 07:13:09 »
It takes more than unemployed people to salvage ships on the sea bed.  Those communities would have been far better served investing the resources it took to do the illegal salvage operations in themselves.

Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #962 on: 12 July 2019, 09:01:11 »
It takes more than unemployed people to salvage ships on the sea bed.  Those communities would have been far better served investing the resources it took to do the illegal salvage operations in themselves.

Not really, no. Maybe a boat, which has been re-tasked from their fishing, some rope, which the fishermen loaned out, a gas axe or thermal lance "borrowed" from a business in the city. It's actually not as difficult as you might think if you don't worry about a lot of the regulate/legislated requirements. Bear in mind that they aren't salvaging a vessel, they are stripping it, two altogether different things.

As for investing those resources in themselves, well, how? They can't build roads, most of them are taking days off from subsistence, and their other lucrative endeavor is piracy, which entails significantly higher risk.

JadeHellbringer

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #963 on: 12 July 2019, 09:05:33 »
Heeeeey, let's drift away from modern-day socio-economics for a while...



My father-in-law passed away a few days ago- he was a native Kiwi who moved to the U.S. many years ago to work at his nation's embassy in Washington DC, and never left after marrying and having a couple of daughters (the eldest of whom I married a few weeks ago). He was fiercely proud of his heritage, and over drinks last fall we'd had a discussion about Gallipoli and other battles fought by the Kiwis during WWI. I'd mentioned to him that they'd even owned a battlecruiser (sort of) during that war, and he lit up- he'd been unaware that HMS New Zealand existed. She was an early battlecruiser, obsolete the moment she hit the water, but fought throughout the war as part of Beatty's battle line regardless.

The above photo was one of a small collage of New Zealand history photos we'd put together as a little collage to put on his wall while he was in hospice care, and was just taken down last night as we started going through his personal effects. (I'd hoped to find blueprints of the ship for him to look over, but never was able to find any prior to his passing).

Note the wide distance between the funnels, the idea being that the wing turrets could aim across the other side of the ship between the gaps and provide a full broadside- in reality this simply ruined the decks and had an absurdly tight arc of fire, so it was a failed idea.
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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #964 on: 12 July 2019, 09:20:58 »
How about we show more pictures.

It looks like Narco semi-submersible submarines are still on the prowl, this was off Easter Pacific Coast. 

This is U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Munro (WMSL-755), she bagging one those Narco subs. She just return from tour



The link has video of them pulling over one these subs.  I watch partially see the crazy designs the drug cartels are trying to do.  I honestly though it had stop since i hadn't seen news about recently.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #965 on: 12 July 2019, 09:38:48 »
Not hearing about submarines usually means the exact opposite of "there are no submarines"... :)
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Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #966 on: 12 July 2019, 10:06:58 »
Yeah, I saw a video link of them actually getting that thing . . .

Coastie in tac gear (lol, desert brown) had leaped over to the top and was pounding on the hatch with some chop on the seas.
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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #967 on: 12 July 2019, 10:58:08 »
Saw it earlier today. Serious James Bond stuff going on

Anyone speak (presumably) Mexican? Something something fuego, so I presume that's "power down"

https://youtu.be/7rnVSlcs7_E
« Last Edit: 12 July 2019, 11:00:17 by Kidd »

Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #968 on: 12 July 2019, 11:03:26 »
There older video from 2016, where the Coast Guard was pumping water out of the narco sub with like 73 million dollar worth of drugs. The thing was half full of water, i think the smugglers were trying to scuttle her. I didn't see if they managed salvage the ship.
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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #969 on: 12 July 2019, 11:06:34 »
Kidd: according to several comments on the video, the shouting was "Alto tu barco!", meaning "Stop your boat!"

Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #970 on: 12 July 2019, 11:26:35 »
Kidd: according to several comments on the video, the shouting was "Alto tu barco!", meaning "Stop your boat!"
Ah right, thanks

I didn't actually go to the YouTube comments, I just grabbed the link off a forum

Ghost0402

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #971 on: 12 July 2019, 14:02:40 »
Yeah, I saw a video link of them actually getting that thing . . .

Coastie in tac gear (lol, desert brown) had leaped over to the top and was pounding on the hatch with some chop on the seas.
We were watching it at work this morning. l think everyone was amazed the sub opened the hatch.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #972 on: 12 July 2019, 15:00:53 »
They are not really subs are they?  My understanding is they did not really submerge, but were built to snorkel at the surface and thus be very hard to see by radar.
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snewsom2997

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #973 on: 12 July 2019, 15:38:36 »
You know you are having a bad day when someone knocks on the door of your submarine in the middle of the ocean.  >:D

Ghost0402

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #974 on: 12 July 2019, 16:08:27 »
They are not really subs are they?  My understanding is they did not really submerge, but were built to snorkel at the surface and thus be very hard to see by radar.
Semi-submersible.  Who knows, a bunch of nukes were laughing then making fun of the air force since they can't really make fun of Coasties now.   :D
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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #975 on: 12 July 2019, 16:11:38 »
Nukes generally don't laugh at non-nuclear submarines, but semi-submersibles are a whole other kettle of fish...  ^-^

glitterboy2098

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #976 on: 12 July 2019, 16:14:50 »
They are not really subs are they?  My understanding is they did not really submerge, but were built to snorkel at the surface and thus be very hard to see by radar.
most are semi-submersible, but a few are full submarines. the later usually can't dive all that deep (a few dozen feet) but that is usually because they are made from flimsier materials like fiberglass.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #977 on: 12 July 2019, 16:51:23 »
You know you are having a bad day when someone knocks on the door of your submarine in the middle of the ocean.  >:D

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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #978 on: 12 July 2019, 17:15:14 »
ROFL!  ;D

BairdEC

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #979 on: 12 July 2019, 18:38:38 »
I never noticed that they are wearing US ribbons before....



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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #980 on: 12 July 2019, 18:49:32 »
It's not like the producers had easy access to the Soviet ones...  8)

VhenRa

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #981 on: 13 July 2019, 03:11:49 »
Heeeeey, let's drift away from modern-day socio-economics for a while...



My father-in-law passed away a few days ago- he was a native Kiwi who moved to the U.S. many years ago to work at his nation's embassy in Washington DC, and never left after marrying and having a couple of daughters (the eldest of whom I married a few weeks ago). He was fiercely proud of his heritage, and over drinks last fall we'd had a discussion about Gallipoli and other battles fought by the Kiwis during WWI. I'd mentioned to him that they'd even owned a battlecruiser (sort of) during that war, and he lit up- he'd been unaware that HMS New Zealand existed. She was an early battlecruiser, obsolete the moment she hit the water, but fought throughout the war as part of Beatty's battle line regardless.

The above photo was one of a small collage of New Zealand history photos we'd put together as a little collage to put on his wall while he was in hospice care, and was just taken down last night as we started going through his personal effects. (I'd hoped to find blueprints of the ship for him to look over, but never was able to find any prior to his passing).

Note the wide distance between the funnels, the idea being that the wing turrets could aim across the other side of the ship between the gaps and provide a full broadside- in reality this simply ruined the decks and had an absurdly tight arc of fire, so it was a failed idea.

The other interesting thing about HMS New Zealand in WWI was just how lucky she was. Fought in basically all the big major actions, took only a single hit. That hit was to the turret, where some of the other British Battlecruisers that blew up took a hit because of poor practices of safety and turrets flash fire exploding into the magazines.

On HMS New Zealand... hit was a dud. Didn't lose a single crewman in action.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #982 on: 13 July 2019, 06:57:47 »
They are not really subs are they?  My understanding is they did not really submerge, but were built to snorkel at the surface and thus be very hard to see by radar.


To be fair, until the 1940s that was true of all submarines. I would guess the drug smugglers are looking to use internal combustion engines rather than something more complex to power their "subs" so they would be audible to sonar - I can't help but wonder if as a side tasking any SSNs are passing details they pick up to the USCG.


On the topic of HMS New Zealand, the BattleCruisers at Jutland were an example of how not to use them, the Battle of the Falkland Islands was an example of how to use them - they were designed to be predators of everything not in the battle line not to be in the battle line. Their role at Jutland should have been reconnaissance and denial of reconnaissance to the German High Seas Fleet rather than engaging the battle line but Beatty was... possibly not the right man for the job.


On the subject of Kiwis, they're a tough lot and both congratulations and commiserations JHB.


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Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #983 on: 13 July 2019, 07:30:10 »
Here nice picture
SMS Ägir, launched in 1896, she was 3,750 ton Imperial German Coastal Defense ship belonging to Odin-Class.  Only two were made.


She was armed 24 cm K (9.4 Inch) cannons, with 3.3 inch guns as secondary weapons and used 45cm torpedoes as well. 

She was certainly a stubby ship, i can't imagine thing handling rough seas well.

Here a picture her sistership Odin.
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kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #984 on: 13 July 2019, 09:42:47 »
Only two were made.
The two were classed as part of the 8-ship Siegfried class. The two differed slightly in design from the other six units (the other six were even shorter and stubbier). Ägir also differs from Odin by use of Thornycroft pressure boilers and more electric support systems.

Originally ten units were planned. These ships weren't intended to go out to sea; instead six of them were to be stationed along the mouths of major rivers into the North Sea (in particular the mouth of the Elbe river), the other four were to protect the Baltic Coast. Two ships, Hildebrand and Ägir, were to be used as command ships for these units.

At the time they apparently had the nickname "guinea pig" due to their stubby shape, slow rolling and appearing in "packs" at sea.

Between 1900 and 1904 all eight were rebuilt, lengthening them so that all eight ships were the same size and had near-identical propulsion and fuel stocks; Ägir and Odin were also lengthened in this, but with a shorter inset of about 400t weight. The armament was also unified to the same as for Ägir and Odin - the six other ships carried 35cm torpedoes before that and a couple fewer 88mm guns in lieu of a set of six 37mm revolver cannons. The above coastal protection role was abandoned, and they were to be used as a homogenous single squadron (in line with Tirpitz reorganizing the ships-of-the-line in 8-ship squadrons).
« Last Edit: 13 July 2019, 09:44:57 by kato »

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #985 on: 13 July 2019, 12:26:18 »
The above coastal protection role was abandoned, and they were to be used as a homogenous single squadron (in line with Tirpitz reorganizing the ships-of-the-line in 8-ship squadrons).
wait so they refitted the ships and then basically use them as normal sea combat ship?
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kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #986 on: 13 July 2019, 14:32:51 »
wait so they refitted the ships and then basically use them as normal sea combat ship?
Well, they intended to. Their main use to Tirpitz was something else though: Marking them as obsolete so that he could push through more procurement of "real" battleships to replace them. The replacement ships came off the slips between 1909 and 1912.

They were pretty much reserve ships from their refit up until WW1. Well, technically they were part of the "Active Battle Fleet" until late 1904. Following that there were some larger-scale exercises in which the ships were activated and formed active combat ships in regular units. During this time - mostly in 1904 - they also did foreign visits as part of longer sea cruises, such as all around the UK with visits to e.g. the Shetlands, or visits to Morocco.
In the autumn maneuvers in 1909 all eight ships were activated and constituted into a single squadron, which served apparently as escorts for a transport convoy and then supported an amphibious landing with gun fire. In other maneuvers, e.g. in 1907, ships of the class served in mixed squadrons with other battleships. The homogenous squadron was an idea that came up in 1907 when the High Seas Fleet was constituted; the HSF consisted of two eight-ship battleship squadrons, with the eight obsolete Siegfried class ships forming a reserve third squadron for that.

Following the start of WW1 the VI. Squadron was constituted with the eight activated ships. However, since there wasn't really any high-sea action that these slow ships could take part in, the VI. Squadron was operationally distributed to serve coincidentally in exactly the original role - protecting the mouths of the major rivers. Only one of them saw some action in this role - SMS Hagen rescued the crew of cruiser SMS Yorck that had run into a minefield in their AoR in November 1914. SMS Beowulf was reassigned to support operations in the Baltic Sea from May 1915, firing her guns at land targets in these.

The VI. Squadron was dissolved on August 31st 1915 with the ships mostly relegated to coastal artillery divisions until manpower shortages had the Navy deactivate them and reassign the crews in early 1916.
« Last Edit: 13 July 2019, 14:37:03 by kato »

Colt Ward

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #987 on: 13 July 2019, 22:39:28 »

To be fair, until the 1940s that was true of all submarines. I would guess the drug smugglers are looking to use internal combustion engines rather than something more complex to power their "subs" so they would be audible to sonar - I can't help but wonder if as a side tasking any SSNs are passing details they pick up to the USCG.

Just because it has to surface and run its diesel to recharge the batteries did not make WWI or WWII non-submarines.  They would dive and operate off the batteries for various reasons.

From what I read about the narco 'subs' they were more like semi-submerged- like the Monitor with no cheesebox on top.
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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #988 on: 14 July 2019, 03:31:37 »
Speaking of interesting turret layouts





The Kearsarge class's layout of dual 8-inch turrets mounted directly atop their 13-inch guns was very different but it had a lot of draw backs including top weight and that a single hit could disable all 4 guns. Plus it wasn't pleasant for the crew of the 13-inch turret when the 8-inch guns fired over them.



It was later repeated on the Virginia class but wasn't really a success (even though they built 5 of the class).

« Last Edit: 14 July 2019, 03:34:02 by marauder648 »
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #989 on: 14 July 2019, 04:26:43 »
Ammunition feed hoists for those 8" guns must be utterly nuts in the 13" turret.  Talk about cluttered space!

 

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