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Author Topic: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise  (Read 59109 times)

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1440 on: 16 September 2019, 15:02:55 »
Sea denial was pretty much the focus of Soviet naval strategy, yeah.  Look at their work on submarines rather than major surface combatants during the Cold War, and how naval strategy was built around stopping anything from getting to Europe.  They weren't doing the power projection thing, everything was focused on keeping the Americans from resupply and reinforcement.

Not that it would have helped in the end; they were just as overmatched in torpedos vs targets as the Germans were in the 40s.  They could have made it a mess to get things over there, and taken a good number of warships with them, but one does not win a war of attrition against civilian industry.
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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1441 on: 16 September 2019, 16:43:17 »
That strategy might have worked before SEAWOLF went to sea, but that single boat had enough Mk 48s to sink the entire Northern Fleet.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1442 on: 16 September 2019, 21:33:11 »
It all seems superfluous in light of ICBMs, mind

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1443 on: 17 September 2019, 00:02:33 »
one does not win a war of attrition against civilian industry.

They were planning on using nucs. Thats not a war of attrition, even leaving out the strategic rocket forces.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1444 on: 17 September 2019, 02:38:53 »
They were planning on using nucs. Thats not a war of attrition, even leaving out the strategic rocket forces.
sure it is. that is an attrition speed run.

Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1445 on: 17 September 2019, 05:43:48 »
They were planning on using nucs. Thats not a war of attrition, even leaving out the strategic rocket forces.

Nobody has planned on using nukes since MAD became a concept. While a certain amount of lip service was paid to the first strike concept, both sides knew when that was no longer possible.

Nukes are now, and have been since the beginning of the cold war, a weapon of deterrence and last resort. They wouldn't be included in the opening salvoes of any conflict because the warning time would give the opponent time to launch. SSBNs sealed the deal on first strike no longer being a viable strategy, meaning that any war growing out of the cold war would be very slow or very quick, either way the body count would be astronomical. :(

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1446 on: 17 September 2019, 06:40:58 »
Well, I read an interview with a former USSR officer back in the '90s. According to him the plan was to push the big red button in case they seemed to be losing...

Which matches the general idea of USSR military planning. When everyone else is planning to wipe you out there's no point in waiting!

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1447 on: 17 September 2019, 07:09:59 »
Well, I read an interview with a former USSR officer back in the '90s. According to him the plan was to push the big red button in case they seemed to be losing...

Which matches the general idea of USSR military planning. When everyone else is planning to wipe you out there's no point in waiting!


With attitudes like that....it's amazing that we are all still here.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1448 on: 17 September 2019, 07:29:12 »
Meanwhile...back to the pictures!

This the Kara Class Guided Missile Cruiser Kerch, she being accompanied by a older Kynda Missile Cruiser off the portside. 

Her class was produced late 1960s and in early 1970s just before the Slava-Class cruisers, their main focus was anti-submarine warfare.  Technically speaking, Kerch is last of her class in some sort of status, namely laid up in reserved, while rest is sunk, scrapped, plain missing (one ship not shown it's fate).
« Last Edit: 17 September 2019, 11:09:35 by Wrangler »
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1449 on: 17 September 2019, 08:37:09 »
Soviet strategy at the time was to use tac nukes to, well, basically pave the way through the Fulda for their tank armies.

This is a very nice pic of a Sovremenny-class destroyer, but it is the PLAN ship Hangzhou, pre-refit

Big link here: http://i.postimg.cc/9Q9MnKKY/8165647628-cff4b41a61-k.jpg



It all seems superfluous in light of ICBMs, mind
Actually that is exactly what they were defending the seas for - protecting the SSBNs.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1450 on: 17 September 2019, 11:06:54 »
This the Kara Class Guided Missile Cruiser Kerch, she being accompanied by a older Kynda Missile Cruiser off the Starboard bow. 

I thought the Klingons were off the starboard bow, Jim?

Nice shot of the Sov . . .

The Nuke arms race was not always about numbers, it was also a race to see who could put them on target fastest so the other side could not respond . . . nuke armed Tomahawks were a Soviet nightmare, partly b/c they could be launched in close ashore and partly b/c their NAP flying.  If they could catch the Soviet C3 above ground they could vape the folks who could give orders to retaliate.  Its also why Cuban and Turkey based missiles back in the 60s were contentious.

But as for pictures . . . apparently a replica of Cook's HMS Endeavor is sailing around the world.




Article said a Maori tribe banned the ship from docking at one of their islands.
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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1451 on: 17 September 2019, 17:26:15 »
That would be hilarious if it were any less Rule 4...

truetanker

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1452 on: 17 September 2019, 21:03:52 »
How about this little BLURP!

https://mayflowersails2020.com/

Yeah Boston, you bean heads!

TT
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1453 on: 19 September 2019, 09:21:48 »

But as for pictures . . . apparently a replica of Cook's HMS Endeavor is sailing around the world.




Article said a Maori tribe banned the ship from docking at one of their islands.

Wouldn't do.

The crew won't be ripe to eat until somewhere in the pacific.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1454 on: 20 September 2019, 04:31:44 »
Interesting website for WWI wrecks

https://map.forgottenwrecks.org/
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1455 on: 20 September 2019, 06:35:46 »
I thought the Klingons were off the starboard bow, Jim?

Nice shot of the Sov . . .

The Nuke arms race was not always about numbers, it was also a race to see who could put them on target fastest so the other side could not respond . . . nuke armed Tomahawks were a Soviet nightmare, partly b/c they could be launched in close ashore and partly b/c their NAP flying.  If they could catch the Soviet C3 above ground they could vape the folks who could give orders to retaliate.  Its also why Cuban and Turkey based missiles back in the 60s were contentious.

But as for pictures . . . apparently a replica of Cook's HMS Endeavor is sailing around the world.




Article said a Maori tribe banned the ship from docking at one of their islands.

I've been onboard her, she's quite the sight let me tell you. The thing that surprised me was how low the deck heads were, apparently it's due to the structural strength of wood, far lower than steel (not a shock), and how long they had to spend at sea.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1456 on: 20 September 2019, 10:07:17 »
Well, average high has steadily been going up and got a steeper curve with the industrial revolution . . . I want to say that is one of the things folks talked about with all the interior scenes from Master & Commander.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1457 on: 20 September 2019, 11:24:39 »

Shots fired...literally.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1458 on: 20 September 2019, 11:58:55 »
Wow, a picture of guys in the rigging . . . not sure I have ever really seen that before.  Isn't that just a popgun signal gun?  or at most one of the chase guns?  Broadside weapons would be on the level with the stern windows.

Ha!, had to look again at the picture but that IS the Surprise.
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1459 on: 20 September 2019, 12:22:11 »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOdcym36NLw
as one commentator said, that's a sexy sub.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1460 on: 20 September 2019, 12:40:47 »

I've been onboard her, she's quite the sight let me tell you. The thing that surprised me was how low the deck heads were, apparently it's due to the structural strength of wood, far lower than steel (not a shock), and how long they had to spend at sea.

Apparently the average height of Japanese naval personnel in WW2 was 5'4" and Admiral Ozawa was 6'7" (2 metres)
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1461 on: 20 September 2019, 13:00:42 »
I've been onboard her, she's quite the sight let me tell you. The thing that surprised me was how low the deck heads were, apparently it's due to the structural strength of wood, far lower than steel (not a shock), and how long they had to spend at sea.
It's mostly a strength and expense issue. When I went through USS Constellation last year, at 6'1", I didn't have an issue on the gun deck, but farther down, it got more cramped. The orlop deck above the hold was the worst.
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Daryk

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1462 on: 20 September 2019, 17:52:13 »
That picture really puts "all hands" into perspective back in the day.  The crowding on that narrow deck would have been something else...

Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1463 on: 21 September 2019, 09:04:28 »
It's mostly a strength and expense issue. When I went through USS Constellation last year, at 6'1", I didn't have an issue on the gun deck, but farther down, it got more cramped. The orlop deck above the hold was the worst.

That would explain it, Endeavour was a collier, not a warship, so no gun deck. :)

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1464 on: 21 September 2019, 10:14:14 »
That would explain it, Endeavour was a collier, not a warship, so no gun deck. :)

Although a new deck was added to her when she was being refitted for exploration.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1465 on: 22 September 2019, 19:44:23 »

USS Saratoga, sister ship of the Lexington in Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, Bremerton, Washington, United States, Nov 17th, 1930.

Remarkable the state of the shipyard. I can't imagine modern shipyard looking like that.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1466 on: 22 September 2019, 19:46:59 »
Um... I don't see a picture...  ???

truetanker

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1467 on: 22 September 2019, 20:16:20 »
https://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=18483

This?

TT

(PS: you do know you can click onto the x and inspect the properties... of which you can copy and paste using your browser to find most pics, right? )
« Last Edit: 22 September 2019, 20:18:21 by truetanker »
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1468 on: 22 September 2019, 20:20:00 »
If that is it, aside from the lack of pavement and all the extra civilians standing around gawking, that looks pretty much like the shipyards I've been in...

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #1469 on: 22 September 2019, 20:44:48 »
No, not that much has changed in someways at PSNS. I remember seeing a similar octagonal pumping structure there in 2009-10. The buildings are mostly World War II-1960's in construction, with extensive renovations. Here's a more recent picture, with an LSMR in the background. In the background is one of the Bob Hope-class Large, Medium-Speed, Roll-on/Roll-off Ships that is moored in Bremerton. You can also see a modern rail born crane in this picture, behind the building.
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