Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It was a contributing forefather to stealth planes, wasn't it?

[JadeHellbringer]

It was a contributing forefather to stealth planes, wasn't it?

In a roundabout way. It contributed to the evolution of nonstandard designs such as wingless aircraft (think the X-24, below), oddballs like that, and THOSE lessons later became useful in other designs as well, but it's not like there's a very distinct line to draw between the Pancake and the F-117 or any of that.

[Bedwyr]

Huh. Vought still exists. Apparently it was bought by an investor group in 2010

[HobbesHurlbut]

It was a contributing forefather to stealth planes, wasn't it?

More like lifting bodies. For contributing forefather to stealth lanes, you look to Ho 229 and such.

[HobbesHurlbut]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9l8CsKP0SY

[Daryk]

That's an interesting video on the Zero vs. the Wildcat.  Thanks!  :thumbsup:

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

One other thing that that video didn't mention was a difference in doctrine between the Japanese and American air forces.  American doctrine pulled experienced pilots back off the front lines after a few months and put them into training duty so they could teach new pilots what they'd learned in combat.  The Japanese kept their pilots flying combat duty, so new pilots weren't getting the advantage of being trained by someone who'd actually fought in the battles they were expected to be going into.

[HobbesHurlbut]

One other thing that that video didn't mention was a difference in doctrine between the Japanese and American air forces.  American doctrine pulled experienced pilots back off the front lines after a few months and put them into training duty so they could teach new pilots what they'd learned in combat.  The Japanese kept their pilots flying combat duty, so new pilots weren't getting the advantage of being trained by someone who'd actually fought in the battles they were expected to be going into.

Didn't that video talked about that? That the pilots who survived the battles and returned, taught the new recruits their experience in USN?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

He mentioned it a little but it was more of an in passing thing and didn't mention that the Japanese didn't do it at all.

[Fat Guy]

If you thought this is the cargo bay of a transport airplane...you'd be wrong!

[Fat Guy]

It's the cargo bay of the world's largest production helicopter: the Mi-26 "Halo".

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

That's a big cargo bay.  What's it intended to carry?

[ANS Kamas P81]

I look at that first picture and want to say "It's Russian, so emptiness and depression" from the expression of the guy sitting there.  In reality, "Everything."  Over 26,000 pounds of cargo, or officially up to 90 people, though one was shot down by Chechen rebels in 2002 with 142 people on board.

[PsihoKekec]

And it crashed into a minefield.

Anyway it can carry up to 20 tons of underslung cargo so it was the helicopter of choicen when ISAF wanted to salvage crashed helicopters in Afganistan, including Chinooks and in one case Mirage 2000.

[I am Belch II]

Mi-26 has the same cargo carry as a C-130

[Fat Guy]

The Mi-12 'Homer" would have taken the crown had it ever gone into production.



The Fulcrum and Flanker provide scale.

[Fat Guy]

Yes, it actually flew.

[Feenix74]

That thing does not fly . . . It beats the air into submission.

[ANS Kamas P81]

I think it's so bizarre and ugly looking it terrifies the Earth into letting go of it gravitationally.

[CrossfirePilot]

I wonder if it is louder than a TU 95?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

While we're talking about large, unusual aircraft, how about the Spruce Goose?



According to my grandfather, one of his cousins saw the flight.  The same cousin was also on the team that developed the self-sealing fuel tanks that American fighters used in World War 2.

[CrossfirePilot]

The Spruce Goose was originally designed to counter the shipping losses to Uboats by creating a gigantic fleet of gigantic transport planes.  Though by mid 1943 this became irrelevant which probably caused development to loose its urgency.  Now I do wonder how things might have shaped up differently if developed as a High speed WIGE?  Instead of the 10-20days it took a liberty boat it might be only 1-2 days.  Though a liberty boat only carried about 11,000 tones and I think a 747 cargo carries only about 600 tones max.

[Deadborder]

Yes, it actually flew.

In a nonsense dieselpunk alternate universe, that thing would have been the best way to get around.

Personally, I love it. It's one of my favourite "what the hell" aviation designs

[Sharpnel]

The Mi-12 'Homer" would have taken the crown had it ever gone into production.



The Fulcrum and Flanker provide scale.

Slap some real wings with four jet engines and it likely would have made a pretty decent military transport plane.

[Sabelkatten]

The Spruce Goose was originally designed to counter the shipping losses to Uboats by creating a gigantic fleet of gigantic transport planes.  Though by mid 1943 this became irrelevant which probably caused development to loose its urgency.  Now I do wonder how things might have shaped up differently if developed as a High speed WIGE?  Instead of the 10-20days it took a liberty boat it might be only 1-2 days.  Though a liberty boat only carried about 11,000 tones and I think a 747 cargo carries only about 600 tones max.

I practice it was a WIGE. I read an article about it some time ago. Apparently the engine power wasn't enough to keep it airborne without ground effect!

[I am Belch II]

The Spruce Goose was originally designed to counter the shipping losses to Uboats by creating a gigantic fleet of gigantic transport planes.  Though by mid 1943 this became irrelevant which probably caused development to loose its urgency.  Now I do wonder how things might have shaped up differently if developed as a High speed WIGE?  Instead of the 10-20days it took a liberty boat it might be only 1-2 days.  Though a liberty boat only carried about 11,000 tones and I think a 747 cargo carries only about 600 tones max.

A 747 can carry about 125 tons at max.
I see the Spruce Goose as a airplane, because it did get off the ground. Of course it never flew again, and didn't even make the most simplest of maneuvers. It was made out of wood because the government didnt want to give vital resources of steel and aluminum to the project.  The Goose was way under powered but it did get in the air as a proof of concept.
 

[Sabelkatten]

A WIGE is an airplane. It's an airplane that's built with undersized wings because it's it's only supposed to fly so low that the ground effect (essentially air trapped between the ground and the wings) provides enough lift.

Or in the case of the Spruce Goose, an underpowered aircraft that can't get up to high enough speed to lift above WIGE flight.

[CrossfirePilot]

A WIGE is an airplane. It's an airplane that's built with undersized wings because it's it's only supposed to fly so low that the ground effect (essentially air trapped between the ground and the wings) provides enough lift.

Or in the case of the Spruce Goose, an underpowered aircraft that can't get up to high enough speed to lift above WIGE flight.

There we go...gimme 500 of 'em

[Feenix74]

Just to give everybody an idea of the scale of the Spruce Goose and how far ahead of conventional aviation technology/engineering it was:



It is built on the scale of as modern behemoths such as the Boeing 747 and Airbus 380 (most of us have never been in the presence of an An-225 so I will not mention it here) but from birch timber not aluminium, titanium alloys and composite materials.

[ANS Kamas P81]

"A wingspan wide enough to touch both end zones in a football game."

That's a good way to measure her, though I have to wonder about that height - if Mriya's tail were a single unit, not a split, how big would it be?