Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation

[Euphonium]

Now, how's THAT for a unique flight line?

For some reason I now have this crazy desire to see a Bear and a BUFF try to dogfight eachother! :))

[DoctorMonkey]

For some reason I now have this crazy desire to see a Bear and a BUFF try to dogfight eachother! :))

if they get too close, they may accidentally have a Canberra

[Feenix74]

Interesting article on a unique bird.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-01/sofia-flying-telescope-occultation-chasing-shadow-titan/10635802

[Kidd]

Interesting article on a unique bird.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-01/sofia-flying-telescope-occultation-chasing-shadow-titan/10635802

Judging by the URL, it's the story of Sofia, a young consulting medium (or occultant, who does occultations) and pilots an aircraft equipped with state-of-the-art scopes ("EO/IR means Ectoplasmic Occult Interdimensional Receptors") on a mission to hunt the fabled Shadow Titan and stop it from unleashing Titanomachy 2.0

[HobbesHurlbut]

With thanks to DoctorMonkey for that wiki Article.

Bomber Command's Operational Research Section (BC-ORS), analyzed a report of a survey carried out by RAF Bomber Command.[citation needed] For the survey, Bomber Command inspected all bombers returning from bombing raids over Germany over a particular period. All damage inflicted by German air defences was noted and the recommendation was given that armour be added in the most heavily damaged areas. This recommendation was not adopted because the fact that the aircraft returned with these areas damaged indicated these areas were not vital, and adding armour to non-vital areas where damage is acceptable negatively affects aircraft performance. Their suggestion to remove some of the crew so that an aircraft loss would result in fewer personnel losses, was also rejected by RAF command. Blackett's team made the logical recommendation that the armour be placed in the areas which were completely untouched by damage in the bombers which returned. They reasoned that the survey was biased, since it only included aircraft that returned to Britain. The untouched areas of returning aircraft were probably vital areas, which, if hit, would result in the loss of the aircraft.[20] This story has been disputed,[21] with a similar damage assessment study completed in the US by the Statistical Research Group at Columbia University[22] and was the result of work done by Abraham Wald[23].

The deduction was that the bombers that didn't make it back probably had taken damage to the areas that weren't touched on the surviving bombers.

[DoctorMonkey]

Every time I read that article, I want to do some operational research - it looks so fascinating

[DaveMac]

For some reason I now have this crazy desire to see a Bear and a BUFF try to dogfight eachother! :))

I can offer you  a Liberator versus two FW 200s

https://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/wars-oddest-dogfight-180954663/

[PsihoKekec]

Murmansk military museum

[marauder648]

I know there was more than a few encounters with Sunderland flying boats and German aircraft in WW2 and one where a Sunderland fought of 8 x JU-88's whilst on patrol

http://ww2today.com/2nd-june-1943-battle-in-the-bay-sunderland-v-ju-88s

[DaveMac]

I know there was more than a few encounters with Sunderland flying boats and German aircraft in WW2 and one where a Sunderland fought of 8 x JU-88's whilst on patrol

http://ww2today.com/2nd-june-1943-battle-in-the-bay-sunderland-v-ju-88s

In August of that year the same crew with replacements was lost over the Bay of Biscay in a fight with 6 JU 88s

No survivors

[Kidd]

In August of that year the same crew with replacements was lost over the Bay of Biscay in a fight with 6 JU 88s

No survivors

As a kid I read a fictionalised account of this, it was quite moving

[marauder648]

I saw that the RAF's finally retiring the Tornado and it will be fully retired by March this year after nearly 40 years of service.

[Kidd]

High time. The torch has now been fully passed to the Typhoon.

[DaveMac]

P-39 in New Zealand

First engine runs two days ago

http://www.pioneeraero.co.nz/2019/02/05/p39-engine-run/

Personally I'm looking forward to their restoration of the only DH Sea Hornet left

http://www.pioneeraero.co.nz/project/sea-hornet-tt193/

[ANS Kamas P81]

They got her together!  Ah, I admit I have a terribly odd place in my heart for the P-39; it was a great design hobbled by some truly bad decisions but soldiered on well with the Soviets.  I wonder how it would have performed if they'd given it a real supercharger like the P-51 did with the Merlin engines.  The Allison 1710s really choked at high altitude, which was a shame because that 37mm would have eaten He-111s alive over Britain and done wonders on the flying boats in the Pacific.

"What could have been" I guess, alas.  At that point I suppose rearming them with Noodle 37mms falls on the wishlist as well as equipping them with a full brace of .50s...

[DaveMac]

They got her together!  Ah, I admit I have a terribly odd place in my heart for the P-39; it was a great design hobbled by some truly bad decisions but soldiered on well with the Soviets.  I wonder how it would have performed if they'd given it a real supercharger like the P-51 did with the Merlin engines.  The Allison 1710s really choked at high altitude, which was a shame because that 37mm would have eaten He-111s alive over Britain and done wonders on the flying boats in the Pacific.

"What could have been" I guess, alas.  At that point I suppose rearming them with Noodle 37mms falls on the wishlist as well as equipping them with a full brace of .50s...

The Q model had all .50s

https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196306/bell-p-39q-airacobra/

[truetanker]

Which airplane had the most 50s in World War II?

[CrossfirePilot]

Which airplane had the most 50s in World War II?

Probably the YB-40.  18 in all.  Though it didn't fly very many sorties.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YB-40_Flying_Fortress

[Ghost0402]

Which airplane had the most 50s in World War II?

Some B-25's carried 18 50 cal MG's.

[CrossfirePilot]

Which airplane had the most 50s in World War II?

If you focused just on fighters.  It would probably be the P 47.  8 in all.

[truetanker]

Can you imagine a flying formation with P 47 on CAP, escorting these?

TT

[I am Belch II]

Some B-25's carried 18 50 cal MG's.

8 in the nose 4 on side packs and a turret that could be turned front for a total of 14. Quite a lot of firepower sticking out of the nose on that plane.

[CrossfirePilot]

I have liked the B-25H since I made a Balsa wood model of it in 5th grade.  Though I think that it would have been better to have something like a 40mm revolver cannon instead of a breechloading 75mm.

[HobbesHurlbut]

I have liked the B-25H since I made a Balsa wood model of it in 5th grade.  Though I think that it would have been better to have something like a 40mm revolver cannon instead of a breechloading 75mm.

Wasn't 75mm picked for more firepower against ships?

[Easy]

cleanup

[Ruger]

F-86 Saber had six. Some MiGs they fought only had only three guns. Two light caliber and a big honking bomber-killer.

Most of the early MiG's (specifically MiG-9's, 15's, and 17's) were fitted with two 23 mm and one 37 mm autocannons...not exactly light armament...

Now the early prop-driven MiG's of WW2 did have lighter payloads...

Ruger

[Dave Talley]

Wasn't 75mm picked for more firepower against ships?

yep
and iirc they were simply 75mm howitzers, altered from pack models,
so the 40mm would have been a little better in armor busting but
these guys were ship hunting, a 75mm howitzer shell puts a decent hole in
 a freighters side, plus these guys still tended to have 6-8 50 cals in the nose or alongside to shred the decks on most boats

[ANS Kamas P81]

The Soviets built bomber-killers, for good reason.  They knew what the Americans could do and just how many freakin B-29s (and followups) there were for PVO Strany to deal with.  They'd been building cannon into fighters since before WWII, and just got bigger and bigger over time.

The Americans tried to switch up to cannon as well, with the 20mm Hispano being the big choice, but did it with oversized chambers and could never make the thing reliable because of it...even after the Brits pointed out the difference between theirs and ours.  We never did fix the thing properly, and so we just went with massed .50s and were freakin married to them until the Colt Mk 12s, and then the M61 with the Starfighter.

Also some of the German warbirds were pretty scary in their own right, like the FW-190 D11 carrying four 20mm and two 30mm cannon onboard...gives the Chain Lightning version of the P-38's quad-37mm cannons a run for its money.

[I am Belch II]

The 75mm was the same gun used off the Grant/Sherman early tanks. It was a light weight version that went later on to be used to the M24 Chaffee tank. It was manual loading so the rate of fire was quite low, you could get 2 or 3 shots in a attack.

[Dave Talley]

The 75mm was the same gun used off the Grant/Sherman early tanks. It was a light weight version that went later on to be used to the M24 Chaffee tank. It was manual loading so the rate of fire was quite low, you could get 2 or 3 shots in a attack.

h

ok wasnt positive on that and too lazy to look it up last night,
I do remember seeing a video showing the bombadier/gunner on his knees
reloading and shoving the new shell in, other than kneeling he at least seemed to have
less movement restrictions than a sherman gunner


edit, ok not the same layout, but heres a vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEek5IvGYKg