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Author Topic: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation  (Read 28421 times)

I am Belch II

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #990 on: 11 July 2019, 16:50:34 »


Looks kinda like this.
GI Joe the Movie is on the cable and watching it lately.
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hoosierhick

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #991 on: 11 July 2019, 16:54:50 »
Only 454kgs??? That's around 1000lbs. Less than a P-51 from WWII. What sort of role is envisioned for an aircraft with such a small payload? I'm assuming a typo there...

Damon.

That's what their brochure says:  https://www.skyworks-global.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Skyworks-Heliplane-Brochure.pdf

That thing reminds me of the Carter Copter, but it's using jet thrust from the tips of the rotor to drive it plus jet engines for forward thrust instead of a prop.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #992 on: 11 July 2019, 17:15:31 »
Skyworks Global and Scaled Composites will offer their VertiJet gyrodyne aircraft for the US Army's Future Vertical Lift competition.

The VertiJet is a runway-independent aircraft that can take off and land vertically and hover similar to a helicopter. VertiJet will incorporate technologies designed and developed by Skyworks in the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency's (DARPA's) Heliplane programme to achieve an estimated top speed of 644 km/h and a range of 1,000 n miles with a maximum payload of 454 kg. Skyworks and Scaled Composites are targeting VertiJet's unit cost for the USD 6-8 million range.



I look at that picture and I hear cheesy 80s action movie music.

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dgorsman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #993 on: 11 July 2019, 18:18:12 »
Looks kinda like this.
GI Joe the Movie is on the cable and watching it lately.

I'm thinking more MASK, myself.

And speaking of the movie, watch G I Joe: Resolute if you haven't seen it.  Same anniversary idea as the live action movie but infinitely better.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #994 on: 11 July 2019, 23:52:08 »
To be fair, a thousand pound payload is still enough for a Sniper ATP with four Hellfires on one aircraft and up to ten more on a wingman.  For the kinds of small point-target COIN work these things will do, I don't see much more need than that (and 14 hellfires is likely overkill, odds are they can do the job with a designator and four missiles each) for a rig.  That's assuming it doesn't come with onboard optics and whatnot to do the job in the first place.

It's quick, which is a benefit for responding to incidents, decent range which implies good loiter time, and if it's true VTOL and not something like a gyroplane then park the thing anywhere and rearm in north BFE with a couple Marines to restock your weapons.

I look at that picture and I hear cheesy 80s action movie music.
Gotcha covered Ogre.
(come on, who wasn't hearing that play in your head anyway?)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #995 on: 12 July 2019, 01:00:50 »
Gotcha covered Ogre.
(come on, who wasn't hearing that play in your head anyway?)

Yup.

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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #996 on: 12 July 2019, 04:10:31 »
Images I'm seeing elsewhere have them with four twin-packs of Hellfires, two packs on each wing.  That seems to be the plan for their tactical use, though I imagine you can also drop some rocket packs onboard for soft targets. 



I'm guessing the little ball on the nose's right side is some sort of sensor array; interesting it's forward looking and not belly mounted for better ground coverage.  Then again, there's a little dark colored block in that first pic in the belly...wonder if it's like the F-35's EOTS for the crew.  Battlefield surveillance and all that; I don't suppose they'll go into too much detail for now.

Still...big enough for a two man crew, plus maybe a sensor operator/air controller in the back. 

Sharpnel

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #997 on: 12 July 2019, 04:45:06 »
That looks more like a Gatling-type machinegun than a sensor pod
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CrossfirePilot

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #998 on: 12 July 2019, 09:16:02 »
I think the Piper Cherokee 6 that I have flown has a larger useful load!

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #999 on: 12 July 2019, 11:15:26 »
Yeah, but it's not a bomber - it's an observer.  That tail structure should give it away; think of the OV-10s that even got reactivated a couple years ago.  This is basically the same airplane, just with magic VTOL powers and 200km/h faster.  And really, eight Hellfires is plenty for the mission role. 

dgorsman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1000 on: 12 July 2019, 11:56:52 »
I can easily see those frequently replaced with SDB and SDB II.

I wonder if this design would supplant gunship model Ospreys?

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1001 on: 12 July 2019, 14:35:31 »
Yeah, but it's not a bomber - it's an observer.  That tail structure should give it away; think of the OV-10s that even got reactivated a couple years ago.  This is basically the same airplane, just with magic VTOL powers and 200km/h faster.  And really, eight Hellfires is plenty for the mission role.

...can't help but wonder if perhaps dropping further to six and adding a couple of Stingers isn't a bad move. After all, if you're already flying FOB jobs, can't hurt to be able to get rid of the enemy's version of your own bird.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1002 on: 12 July 2019, 15:06:03 »
For COIN?  I am surprised we are even talking about that many guided munitions.

And yeah, that looks like BURRRRRRT on the nose.
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I am Belch II

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1003 on: 12 July 2019, 16:15:46 »
It's a neat looking design. I've always wondered about the downforce of wind from the main rotor to that wing. But it don't seem to be a problem seeing how Helos have wings now at least stub wings.
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marauder648

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1004 on: 12 July 2019, 16:17:37 »
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1005 on: 12 July 2019, 16:55:59 »
Nice painting of a Hunter.
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chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1006 on: 12 July 2019, 21:35:59 »
That's a Hawker Sea Hawk, actually

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1007 on: 13 July 2019, 01:41:55 »
...can't help but wonder if perhaps dropping further to six and adding a couple of Stingers isn't a bad move. After all, if you're already flying FOB jobs, can't hurt to be able to get rid of the enemy's version of your own bird.
No disagreement there.  Also makes relatively decent medicine against helicopters if you get a really nasty surprise - not that you can't outrun every whirlybird in existence at 650km/h but still.

For COIN?  I am surprised we are even talking about that many guided munitions.
Moving convoy of insurgents.  Or tight targets; granted you're not going to be sniping individuals but pegging a single car near a hospital maybe.  Hellfires aren't that big on blast compared to typical bombs...and they'd also make really nice support against 2nd and 3rd gen tanks that have been showing up in conflict areas.  T-34-85s and SU-100s were seen in the Yemen fight in 2015, after all...

I am Belch II

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1008 on: 13 July 2019, 04:57:30 »
I wonder how many Sea Hawks tails were damaged on landing with it sitting low like that??
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beachhead1985

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1009 on: 13 July 2019, 11:08:44 »
Skyworks Global and Scaled Composites will offer their VertiJet gyrodyne aircraft for the US Army's Future Vertical Lift competition.

The VertiJet is a runway-independent aircraft that can take off and land vertically and hover similar to a helicopter. VertiJet will incorporate technologies designed and developed by Skyworks in the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency's (DARPA's) Heliplane programme to achieve an estimated top speed of 644 km/h and a range of 1,000 n miles with a maximum payload of 454 kg. Skyworks and Scaled Composites are targeting VertiJet's unit cost for the USD 6-8 million range.



So they tried to spell "Cheyenne" and ended up with a funny accent on "LearJet"?







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« Last Edit: 13 July 2019, 11:14:00 by beachhead1985 »
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I am Belch II

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1010 on: 13 July 2019, 11:28:59 »
Love how in that photo of the Cheyenne looks to have a Afterburning engine...and also that the Shillelagh missile was going to work like it was supposed to.
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Kidd

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1011 on: 13 July 2019, 13:27:07 »
It's that crazy downward tailfin that gets me

Fat Guy

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1012 on: 13 July 2019, 19:39:43 »
When talking helicopter gunships that never were, I always preferred the Sikorsky S-67 Blackhawk (one word) to the Cheyenne.





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Daryk

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1013 on: 13 July 2019, 20:35:08 »
That's... a LOT of rockets...

DoctorMonkey

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1014 on: 14 July 2019, 08:23:31 »
That's... a LOT of rockets...


I'd prefer to see the outer pylons with a triple pod for proper More Dakka
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Ruger

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1015 on: 14 July 2019, 09:39:41 »

I'd prefer to see the outer pylons with a triple pod for proper More Dakka

Well, the Wikipedia article on it says it was capable of carrying 16 TOW's or even Sidewinder missiles (but doesn't mention how many of the latter), and up to 15 troops as well. Basically sounds like a US version of the Soviet/Russian Hind.

I still kind of like the look of the Cheyenne more, but this version BlackHawk is impressive. Too bad neither got very far in reality.

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1016 on: 14 July 2019, 10:03:58 »
Well, the Wikipedia article on it says it was capable of carrying 16 TOW's or even Sidewinder missiles (but doesn't mention how many of the latter), and up to 15 troops as well. Basically sounds like a US version of the Soviet/Russian Hind.
The Blackhawk? 16 is a bit high. FatGuy's link to Sikorsky Archives says it was modified to hold 6.

https://www.sikorskyarchives.com/S-67%20BLACKHAWK.php

Quote from: Sikorskyarchives.com
The army decided instead to initiate a new gunship program, the Armed Attack Helicopter, AAH, which eventually became the Hughes (now Boeing) AH-64 Apache.

Sikorsky then made a few modifications to the aircraft and embarked on a foreign tour.  The small cabin behind the cockpit was converted into a thermally- and acoustically-insulated troop compartment for six troops, with access provided through a door on the left side of the fuselage.

If they only modified the cabin and not the fuselage (except for the door), that had to suck for the troops. 1.17 meters outside width with thermal/acoustic insulation inside? Pez dispenser.

marauder648

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1017 on: 14 July 2019, 14:27:39 »
Always liked the Cheyanne, what killed it?
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Fat Guy

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1018 on: 14 July 2019, 15:28:37 »
Too many problems and costs spiraling out of control.
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Empyrus

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1019 on: 14 July 2019, 15:30:21 »
Always liked the Cheyanne, what killed it?
Looking at Wikipedia, technical issues, outdated systems, large size, and lack of survivability, as it had only a single engine.
And a demonstration where a TOW missile failed (despite being only one of over a hundred firings).

 

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