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Author Topic: Escort Unit  (Read 4528 times)

Tangoforone

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #30 on: 02 January 2019, 13:27:13 »
Part of the intention of using a swarm of Urbies was to deliberately let them fall behind the assault lance.  They would use their full torso twisting to be able to always face the enemies while still being able to move forward.  That way if the enemies got in front of them, but behind the assault lance, they would get shot with the autocannons.  If the enemy get behind the urbies, they still get shot with autocannons.  Obviously the torso twisting can't be a thing for the reasons aforementioned, but I completely forgot about the arms being able to face the rear.  I think my plan may still have merit, sure the urbies can still get shot in the back but if the enemy is willing to spend the extra time to go behind the urbies to shoot them in the back then that is one less round that they are bothering the assaults.  Maybe it is time to start perusing ebay for some urbanmechs.  The only concern with using pure urbies as escorts is that the enemy is allowed to close range with my assault lance, to an extent.  Then the question becomes, should I be concerned?  As long as my units keep advancing, they can torso twist to shoot light units, so long as there are not better targets to shoot at, and the urbies can support them from the rear.

So what am I looking at for force composition?  A forward lance to begin engagements and provide targeting for indirect fire (a mix of cavalry VTOLs, hovercraft, and fast mechs), an assault lance to bring the pain around midgame (specifically units with LRM-20 and -15 for indirect fire so they are always doing something), and a group of urbies to provide covering fire for the assault lance as they move forward.  I like the sound of it personally.  And it is more than feasible to run in the games I play point-wise, since we usually play 20,000 BV minimum.  Maybe throw in a few firetrucks (literally) to put out fires for devious people like you MoneyLovingOgre4Hire.

Boomer8

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #31 on: 02 January 2019, 16:26:48 »
If you're throwing in firetrucks, just go with coolant trucks with sprayers. Fire fighting and cooling hot 'Mechs, double duty.
Victor W. Milan (1954-2018) Taken before he finished.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #32 on: 02 January 2019, 20:53:55 »
Bringing firefighting units to a fight against me is risky.

You see, I love killing things in ironic ways.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Kovax

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #33 on: 07 January 2019, 12:42:50 »
Part of the intention of using a swarm of Urbies was to deliberately let them fall behind the assault lance.

If you're sending the convoy a couple of miles, the Urbies could at least remain in sight of the formation as it plods slowly forward and leaves them creeping along behind.  Over tens or hundreds of kilometers, their presence will become meaningless, as the fight will be over before they can join....unless the Assault force is composed of equally slow Annihilators.

When the escorts are slower than what they're escorting, there's a problem.  Not only do they slow the whole formation (or get left miles behind), but they can't react and respond well to situations that aren't near where they happen to be at the moment.  If they do respond and drop out of formation, they don't have the speed to get back in place, leaving holes in coverage.

Yes, I know it's a severe blow to one's view of the universe, but the Urbanmech is not the perfect answer for EVERY situation, just most of them.

truetanker

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #34 on: 07 January 2019, 15:17:57 »
Then grab a Lance of Hyena's to transport them into combat...

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Weirdo

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #35 on: 07 January 2019, 15:30:32 »
Bear in mind, some folks do play pick-up games instead of long campaigns...such situations are where I think escort Urbies are most useful.
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Tangoforone

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #36 on: 08 January 2019, 15:36:22 »
You could also say the same for any units at that point.  Your faster units are always going to be slowed down by your slower units.  In essence, your entire army's/convoy's long distance travel speed is defined by your slowest units.  If that is the case, and you are escorting not only assault forces, but also ammunition trucks, food supplies, etc. an urbanmech again sounds like a fairly inexpensive option that has the generic mobility of the battlemech over tracked/wheeled/hover units. 

With that said, I don't have the experience of a long campaign where I have had to consider escorting convoys over long distances.  I could see that they would have to be left behind if I needed to rush part of my army to the next city or something along those lines.  But then you would probably not have access to your heavy assets either, or would have some assault units already stationed in the city so as to not have to worry about moving them long distances in a short time.

Elmoth

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #37 on: 08 January 2019, 15:45:11 »
Aren't trucks faster than assaults? They certainly are in alpha strike

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #38 on: 08 January 2019, 15:55:22 »
Depends on the truck and how much they're hauling.
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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #39 on: 08 January 2019, 16:26:13 »
Unless you've got a convenient highway to travel along, most mechs(even assaults) are going to move faster than your typical support truck overland. If your trucks are still faster, then load them up with external cargo until they aren't, because you always need ALL the supplies.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
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Atarlost

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #40 on: 08 January 2019, 18:02:37 »
Unless you've got a convenient highway to travel along, most mechs(even assaults) are going to move faster than your typical support truck overland. If your trucks are still faster, then load them up with external cargo until they aren't, because you always need ALL the supplies.

You don't rely on trucks if you expect to attack over ground they can't cross.  You send the trucks as far as you can and use cargo VTOLs or airships.  Or you convert some tanks into cargo crawlers.  Or you use your flipping dropships.  Both support vehicles and dropships are kept away from the front lines by the exact same restriction: the enemy's ability to project force against them.  Dropships in some situations can be brought forward farther than support vehicles because some of the military eggs can't be attacked effectively with light scouting/screening forces. 

Daryk

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #41 on: 08 January 2019, 19:08:58 »
A truck only has to be 5/8 to exceed an Urbanmech's speed under full load (tonnage on top of cargo).  And since 4/6 trucks can get that on a road, it's really not hard to get there.

And VTOLs universally exceed Urbanmechs, even under full load.  That includes the Yellowjacket with a sling load (which is only 6/9 to start).

RoundTop

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #42 on: 09 January 2019, 19:22:12 »
VTOLs, especially with SRMs or LRMs, are a good choice.

Since they can increase their height, they can see over obstacles, which makes it hard to hide from a VTOL.

The Warrior H7C (LRM) version is quite good for going after things at longer ranges.

In 3055 or later the Cavalry (CAV) is great with a bunch of SRMs.
The Karnov AC is a great one too. Going 8/12 with an AC20. It puts things down hard, and at only 556BV2.
Cyrano has a large laser. The Cyrano ML has 2 mediums an 5 RL-10s, which gives it a really heavy punch.

For hovers, the Maxim isn't a bad idea. especially if you stuff it full of anti-mech jump infantry.
No-Dachi has a counter-argument. Nothing further? Ok.
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truetanker

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #43 on: 10 January 2019, 15:40:38 »
Drillson's with BA MagClamped BA...

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #44 on: 13 January 2019, 07:32:35 »
unless the Assault force is composed of equally slow Annihilators.
In fairness, a lance of Urbies and a lance of Annihilators is going to make your logistics and maintenance train very, very boring outside of "you need how many AC/10 rounds?"

BloodRose

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #45 on: 14 January 2019, 23:52:23 »
This far in and noone has mentioned the obvious?
Scimitars. Cheap enough to be grabbed in numbers, fast enough to chase down and swarm harassing lights, well armed enough to be nightmare to heavier units and agile enough to be sent ahead to probe for enemy units which they can then swarm quickly thanks to having great speed. And they carry enough armour to withstand a small ambush too.

Honestly, people are too quick to jump to Mechs as the solution to everything. Vehicles are really useful you know, but everyone seems to forget about them.
The Marauder MAD-3r. A mech of perfection and beauty, a walking duellist and a monster on the offensive.
Or at least it would be if someone would stick more heatsinks in!

truetanker

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #46 on: 15 January 2019, 00:54:33 »
Harassers...

There's so many lovely variants... some even better than the originals, BV2 : 433

BV2:
LRM - 1x 10-Launcher : 412
Mini-Peggy - 2x SRM4, Remote Sensor : 351
ML - 2x : 341
Flamer - 8x Vehical : 233

> insert Roadrunner sound effects here <

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #47 on: 15 January 2019, 01:05:56 »
Hovercraft require wide, open plains to work.  There are a lot of terrain types that you could potentially be operating in where hovers just aren't a good match.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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truetanker

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #48 on: 15 January 2019, 01:07:40 »
Then use the Tracked APC's, their 6/9... some carry enough firepower to lend a hand in groups...

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Elmoth

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #49 on: 15 January 2019, 05:22:12 »
Myrmidons for example. PPC and SRM6 in a 40tn chasis.

BloodRose

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #50 on: 15 January 2019, 07:04:28 »
Hovercraft require wide, open plains to work.  There are a lot of terrain types that you could potentially be operating in where hovers just aren't a good match.
Okay, then use Scorpion Light Tanks if your in hover-hostile terrain. Its still a cheap and relatively fast tank with decent levels of firepower and enough armour to take a hit. Either way vehicles are the best choice for escorting a lance of mechs.
The Marauder MAD-3r. A mech of perfection and beauty, a walking duellist and a monster on the offensive.
Or at least it would be if someone would stick more heatsinks in!

Kovax

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #51 on: 15 January 2019, 12:20:03 »
Okay, then use Scorpion Light Tanks if your in hover-hostile terrain. Its still a cheap and relatively fast tank with decent levels of firepower and enough armour to take a hit. Either way vehicles are the best choice for escorting a lance of mechs.

I'd much prefer a combined arms approach.  Vehicles are ideal for cheap firepower, and reasonably mobile in appropriate terrain, which is perfect for the main body of your escort team.  What 'Mechs bring to the table is flexibility, the ability to operate in conditions where the vehicles CAN'T.  If you've got a couple of fast 'Mechs to assist the mainly-vehicle escort in running down elusive threats and taking out spotters in terrain where your fast hovers can't go and your tracked vehicles are too slow, you've got the best of both worlds.  The 'Mechs can drop back to the vehicles if they encounter something too tough for them, and the combined firepower of the vehicles plus 'Mechs should be sufficient to deal with anything that doesn't demand the full attention of the main Assault force.

The cost of a light 'Mech, plus a hovertank (Pegasus, Saladin, Saracen, Scimitar, or even a Harasser) and a tracked tank (Scorpion) or heavy APC (SRM or LRM), is still quite a bit less than that of a decent Medium 'Mech, gives you something useful in virtually any terrain situation, and should put up a good fight against an attacking Medium 'Mech.  Multiply that by however many you need for an appropriate escort under the circumstances.

Colt Ward

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #52 on: 15 January 2019, 12:38:48 »
Yeah . . . I think 4 Myrmidons and a pair of lights that are 7/11/7 or better with some electronics (depends on how you play) might be the best escort force for assault mech lance to punch a breach in a defensive line.  Four 10 point hits are going to be enough to discourage most lights and mediums . . .

The Manticore (Upg) would also work though could not re-position as well or quickly but that LPL would also discourage speedsters.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #53 on: 15 January 2019, 15:13:51 »
If you're going to run a Manticore, why not use the LB-X variant for added defense against VTOLs and BA?
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Colt Ward

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #54 on: 15 January 2019, 15:51:11 »
Simply the -2 vs the -1 for speedsters getting into the rear.

Ideally it would be . . .
Myrmidon
Myrmidon (PR)
Manticore (Upg)
Po Heavy (LBX)
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BloodRose

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #55 on: 15 January 2019, 17:56:56 »
But Mechs are expensive. A Scimitar, Scorpion and a VTOL are cheaper and provide mobile firepower and recce ability for far less than that bug plus hover plus tracked is going to cost you, and allows you to have a far reaching spread of 'feelers' to poke around and find likely ambush sites and routes through.
The Marauder MAD-3r. A mech of perfection and beauty, a walking duellist and a monster on the offensive.
Or at least it would be if someone would stick more heatsinks in!

Colt Ward

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #56 on: 15 January 2019, 18:25:54 »
Your escorts for a assault lance should not be pulling recon . . . in fact your recon should have already found that defensive line that you launched your juggernaut towards.  You want mobile skirmishers with pulse lasers to hunt down what your vehicles sent running since it could be crippled

Scorpion, Scimitar and VTOL are individually cheaper but will cost more to operate due to crew, fuel and transport.  Really the Po should be replaced with a fusion engine version, but I had to finish the post and was trying to think of something that was not a Manticore with a LBX.


Realistically you are never going to send a single assault lance against a fortified line.  It would be part of a mech battalion-sized to punch through the perimeter with follow on armor & infantry.  The armor will hold open the breach while cavalry (mech & armor) wheel to either side to flank the defensive line and roll up defenders.  Or the schwerpunkt keeps driving for the objective- road junction, bridge, pass, isthmus, river ford, or whatever it might be the defenders were protecting.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #57 on: 15 January 2019, 18:28:31 »
It's also cheaper in the long run if you don't have to constantly find replacement vehicles and crew because you skimped on springing for something more durable than Scorpions so they die every time they get engaged.
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VensersRevenge

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #58 on: 15 January 2019, 20:54:33 »
Yeah, a "budget" unit only counts as budget if it isn't being destroyed and costing you a replacement unit and crew in every battle. While their are times and places for extremely cheap units like the Scorpion or Vedette, escorting a high priority target like an assault lance is not one of them. I would use something like a Phoenix Hawk, fadt enough to intercept backstabbers and enough firepower to make them nervous.
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BloodRose

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Re: Escort Unit
« Reply #59 on: 15 January 2019, 20:57:59 »
Ah, so its for breakthrough duties? Sorry, my bad, I was thinking it was something for escorting a main fighting force through hostile territory to a FOB, with lots of ambushers, light units and cheap/nasty vehicles hiding out along the way.
If its for breakthrough stuff then Pattons and (if your in a city fight) Demolishers.
The Marauder MAD-3r. A mech of perfection and beauty, a walking duellist and a monster on the offensive.
Or at least it would be if someone would stick more heatsinks in!

 

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