Register Register

Author Topic: Fan XTRO: The Society  (Read 12633 times)

Xeno426

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 180
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #30 on: 12 February 2019, 13:40:36 »
Stealth systems tend to require a degree of integration to the design that isn't very modular; if something is to be stealthy, it has to be built from the ground up to take advantage of that stealth. Instead, I'd suggest a stealth system for vees and aerospace that isn't armor and wouldn't require ECM to work. This it would allow them to keep using things like Ferro-Lamellar, Reflective, Hardened armor, etc.

Thus there's design space for an aerospace fighter whose role is reconnaissance and interception, but also room for another of similar weight that is a cheap, robust, all-purpose unit. The heat generated by stealth systems is usually a big burden and means configs have to take that into careful consideration; if the weapon loadout is such that it can't really be used with Stealth active, then any unit using that config is basically paying extra for a system that it can't use.

RifleMech

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 888
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #31 on: 13 February 2019, 03:16:32 »
Yes, Modular Stealth. The only thin that would really add value, but I didn't end up using it on anything.

Wouldn't that be a podded ECM Suite?

Stealth systems tend to require a degree of integration to the design that isn't very modular; if something is to be stealthy, it has to be built from the ground up to take advantage of that stealth. Instead, I'd suggest a stealth system for vees and aerospace that isn't armor and wouldn't require ECM to work. This it would allow them to keep using things like Ferro-Lamellar, Reflective, Hardened armor, etc.

Thus there's design space for an aerospace fighter whose role is reconnaissance and interception, but also room for another of similar weight that is a cheap, robust, all-purpose unit. The heat generated by stealth systems is usually a big burden and means configs have to take that into careful consideration; if the weapon loadout is such that it can't really be used with Stealth active, then any unit using that config is basically paying extra for a system that it can't use.


Like some kind of stealthy cosmetic that's placed onto the unit? I can see that working for vehicles but I'm not sure about fighters.

TRO:2750 mentions various types of armor such as stealth and reflective. I house ruled it as stealth was effective against standard sensors but not probes and reflective only subtracted 1 point of damage to a minimum of 1.

Xeno426

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 180
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #32 on: 13 February 2019, 09:24:09 »
Wouldn't that be a podded ECM Suite?
No, ECM works quite differently, both in BT and real life.
In BT, ECM shuts down enemy electronic systems like C3, Artemis, etc.
In real life, ECM radiates energy to confuse enemy sensors, which is the opposite of stealth. The enemy may not be able to get a proper lock or know exactly where an aircraft using ECM is, but they know it's *there*.
In real life, stealth makes it hard to detect and get a lock on such units. In BT, stealth adds a to-hit modifier that is range-dependent.

TRO:2750 mentions various types of armor such as stealth and reflective. I house ruled it as stealth was effective against standard sensors but not probes and reflective only subtracted 1 point of damage to a minimum of 1.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Laser_Reflective_Armor
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Stealth_Armor
Those are what I was thinking of. What page(s) does the TRO 3025 mention those things?

Kojak

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3846
  • Don't everyone thank me at once.
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #33 on: 13 February 2019, 09:49:14 »
Just wanted to pop in and add to the consensus that this is really great work. Something akin to this is definitely on my Battletech bucket list.
"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head."
- Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop


RifleMech

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 888
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #34 on: 13 February 2019, 10:08:27 »
In real life, ECM radiates energy to confuse enemy sensors, which is the opposite of stealth. The enemy may not be able to get a proper lock or know exactly where an aircraft using ECM is, but they know it's *there*.

That's how ECM works in BT. A big bubble that sensors can't see through unless they're stronger than the ECM.


Quote
In real life, stealth makes it hard to detect and get a lock on such units. In BT, stealth adds a to-hit modifier that is range-dependent.

Sounds like its harder to lock on to to me.

Quote
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Laser_Reflective_Armor
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Stealth_Armor
Those are what I was thinking of. What page(s) does the TRO 3025 mention those things?


They're in TRO:2750.

The Spad entry pg 62 says it's sloped wing design and special alloy wing tips help project echos that plays havoc with with enemy targeting systems. The entry also says that Spad's armor, the Carbondale III Plating System uses individual plates of armor woven to deflect laser hits after they penetrate the outer skin.

The Gotha entry page 72 says that that Carbondale IV Ferro-Fibrous Armor can deflect shots and is the most sophisticated armor ever produced.

TRO:3025 might have some other special Armor besides the Marauder's and Orion's but itd take time to look.'

grimlock1

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1519
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #35 on: 21 May 2019, 09:50:07 »
I went to build the Dyrnwyn in SSW, and ran into a typo. The TRO Ferro Lam armor in the stat block
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Maingunnery

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4786
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #36 on: 21 May 2019, 12:05:30 »
I went to build the Dyrnwyn in SSW, and ran into a typo. The TRO Ferro Lam armor in the stat block
Thanks, I will correct that asap.
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society

Xeno426

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 180
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #37 on: 21 May 2019, 13:34:30 »
That's how ECM works in BT. A big bubble that sensors can't see through unless they're stronger than the ECM.
[...]
Sounds like its harder to lock on to to me.
But it's not how stealth works. The difference is passive vs active defense. When ECM is on, it's broadcasting to the enemy "I'm here somewhere". Stealth tries to make detection harder in the first place, not just the process of  locking on. There are techniques for defeating ECM, from "burning through" to using Home on Jam systems, especially when dealing with barrage jamming.

They're in TRO:2750.

The Spad entry pg 62 says it's sloped wing design and special alloy wing tips help project echos that plays havoc with with enemy targeting systems. The entry also says that Spad's armor, the Carbondale III Plating System uses individual plates of armor woven to deflect laser hits after they penetrate the outer skin.

The Gotha entry page 72 says that that Carbondale IV Ferro-Fibrous Armor can deflect shots and is the most sophisticated armor ever produced.

TRO:3025 might have some other special Armor besides the Marauder's and Orion's but itd take time to look.'
Yeah, TRO fluff (especially early stuff) can get pretty deep into describing problems that don't have any mechanical change. The Marauder in 3025 talks about how its PPCs are of an advanced design that are compact enough to be carried in the arms, which doesn't really translate to anything at all. It also describes weak linkages between the leg and torso, an autocannon that's more exposed and easy to disable, and the tracking system blocking the pilot's view. If you're going to give bonuses to mechs based on the TRO fluff, you should give them all their maluses as well.
It could be argued that these improvements over other things are just not big enough to warrant a change in mechanics.

I went to build the Dyrnwyn in SSW, and ran into a typo. The TRO Ferro Lam armor in the stat block
Yeah, armor factor says it's Ferro Lam while everything else points towards Ferro Fibrous.

RifleMech

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 888
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #38 on: 21 May 2019, 20:26:31 »
But it's not how stealth works. The difference is passive vs active defense. When ECM is on, it's broadcasting to the enemy "I'm here somewhere". Stealth tries to make detection harder in the first place, not just the process of  locking on. There are techniques for defeating ECM, from "burning through" to using Home on Jam systems, especially when dealing with barrage jamming.

Exactly. ECM is a big bubble of I'm here somewhere" while stealth is "Can't see me!" Both systems try to hide things. One's just more obvious about it.


Quote
Yeah, TRO fluff (especially early stuff) can get pretty deep into describing problems that don't have any mechanical change. The Marauder in 3025 talks about how its PPCs are of an advanced design that are compact enough to be carried in the arms, which doesn't really translate to anything at all. It also describes weak linkages between the leg and torso, an autocannon that's more exposed and easy to disable, and the tracking system blocking the pilot's view. If you're going to give bonuses to mechs based on the TRO fluff, you should give them all their maluses as well.
It could be argued that these improvements over other things are just not big enough to warrant a change in mechanics.

I agree there should be minuses to go along with pluses. I also think that sometimes the pluses and minuses can be balanced and other times not. I do like the Quirks as it lets some of the fluff abilities to be used but unfortunately they don't cover everything. For the Maurader, I think it'd have the exposed weapon linkage (AC/5), exposed actuators (hips), a plus for its type of armor, a increased piloting penalty for no sensors, and flippable arms. As for the PPCs, my head canon says that there were older PPCs that either took up a lot more crits, or were just not allowed in the arms. Kind of like how OMNIs can't have hand actuators and ACs in the same arm.

It's also why I kind of wish there was more to Fractional accounting. TROs 2750 and 3050 would still be legal under advanced rules. It'd also allow for more variation in weaponry. Like the Wyvern's Night Star Large Laser being older and more bulky. I give it an extra .25 tons to fill in the 2750's 44.75 tons. I also house rule it can only be mounted in an arm or vehicle body. But that's just me. 


grimlock1

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1519
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #39 on: 22 May 2019, 09:10:12 »
Exactly. ECM is a big bubble of I'm here somewhere" while stealth is "Can't see me!" Both systems try to hide things. One's just more obvious about it.


I agree there should be minuses to go along with pluses. I also think that sometimes the pluses and minuses can be balanced and other times not. I do like the Quirks as it lets some of the fluff abilities to be used but unfortunately they don't cover everything. For the Maurader, I think it'd have the exposed weapon linkage (AC/5), exposed actuators (hips), a plus for its type of armor, a increased piloting penalty for no sensors, and flippable arms. As for the PPCs, my head canon says that there were older PPCs that either took up a lot more crits, or were just not allowed in the arms. Kind of like how OMNIs can't have hand actuators and ACs in the same arm.

It's also why I kind of wish there was more to Fractional accounting. TROs 2750 and 3050 would still be legal under advanced rules. It'd also allow for more variation in weaponry. Like the Wyvern's Night Star Large Laser being older and more bulky. I give it an extra .25 tons to fill in the 2750's 44.75 tons. I also house rule it can only be mounted in an arm or vehicle body. But that's just me.
I was always a bit curious why fractional accounting went away.  Granted some of the vehicles in the older TRO 3050 had some odd size cargo bins but it's not like a pocket calculator is hard to find, even in the '80's.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

RifleMech

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 888
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #40 on: 25 May 2019, 11:10:04 »
I was always a bit curious why fractional accounting went away.  Granted some of the vehicles in the older TRO 3050 had some odd size cargo bins but it's not like a pocket calculator is hard to find, even in the '80's.

Easier to add things up I guess. But it is kind of weird since there's still items that weigh .25 tons.

Maingunnery

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4786
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #41 on: 26 May 2019, 06:07:19 »

Working on updating the XTRO, here is a small preview of what is to come:

Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17290
  • Dang it!
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #42 on: 26 May 2019, 06:24:58 »
Looks good!  Reminds me what would have Happened if R2-D2 got angry and went rambo!  ;D
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

marauder648

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6478
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #43 on: 26 May 2019, 08:34:34 »
Working on updating the XTRO, here is a small preview of what is to come:



oooooooh....Very nice! :D
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Stormlion1

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14084
  • The 1st Federated Suns Lancers will arise again!
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #44 on: 26 May 2019, 13:06:30 »
I've recently painted up a bunch of Society stuff and the very next thing I do is find this. Amazing stuff!
I don't set an example for others. I make examples of them.

Kasaga

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 322
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #45 on: 09 June 2019, 21:03:09 »
Wow, Maingunnery. Love the work.  Man after my own heart with the Society designs.

Red Pins

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2528
  • Inspiration+Creativity=Insanity
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #46 on: 10 June 2019, 02:13:04 »
This kind of thing is definitely what should have been done for the society; a new ultra-high tech adversary to put those rare pieces of equipment into general use, explaining the continued development of super-advanced weapons while keeping it restricted to a single faction until some time in the future when a new boogyman is needed.
...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
Glitter - the herpes of the craft supply world.

Maingunnery

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4786
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #47 on: 10 June 2019, 05:39:15 »
Been working on the record sheets here is a small preview in the attachment.

Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17290
  • Dang it!
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #48 on: 10 June 2019, 07:09:09 »
Wow, that thing hair short of a Battleship.  I thought it was more a converted warship turn civilian ship.  That properly be rude surprise to NPC raiders looking for easy kill.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

DOC_Agren

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1523
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #49 on: 11 June 2019, 19:16:32 »
Looks good!  Reminds me what would have Happened if R2-D2 got angry and went rambo!  ;D
glad I'm not the only one   :thumbsup:
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

Xeno426

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 180
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #50 on: 11 June 2019, 22:55:36 »
Been working on the record sheets here is a small preview in the attachment.
Have to wonder the backstory here. That's a warship 5/6 the size of the Leviathan. Producing something like that is a serious investment in resources and personnel, something not many factions could pull off post-Jihad.

Who is building it? It seems out of scope for the Society to be able to pull off, at least not before a century or two of trying to rebuild.

On the design itself, it's like a Leviathan that does the heavy transport job better. No battery hampers it a bit, though.

Korzon77

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2161
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #51 on: 13 June 2019, 17:31:30 »

The fluff makes it plain that's its a mobile base for the society, with any single ship being capable of rebuilding the society from scratch. Also, many of them were built with large parts of their structure salvaged from other ships.
The lack of an LF battery is a problem, but I expect given the relatively short ranges of most Btech sensor systems and the fact that the society probably keeps these things in out of the way locations like the Oort clouds, detection, short of betrayal or bad luck, isn't the same issue it'd be for a warship.

Kasaga

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 322
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #52 on: 13 June 2019, 18:06:39 »
The fluff makes it plain that's its a mobile base for the society, with any single ship being capable of rebuilding the society from scratch. Also, many of them were built with large parts of their structure salvaged from other ships.
The lack of an LF battery is a problem, but I expect given the relatively short ranges of most Btech sensor systems and the fact that the society probably keeps these things in out of the way locations like the Oort clouds, detection, short of betrayal or bad luck, isn't the same issue it'd be for a warship.

Sounds legit.

Maingunnery

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4786
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #53 on: 13 June 2019, 18:17:51 »

Actually MML doesn't show everything on WarShip Record Sheets, such the number of Dockcollars, Lithium-Fusion Batteries, Large Naval Comm-Scanner
Suite and the Hyperpulse Generator...... 
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

Fan XTRO: The Society

Red Pins

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2528
  • Inspiration+Creativity=Insanity
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #54 on: 14 June 2019, 11:08:56 »
The fluff makes it plain that's its a mobile base for the society, with any single ship being capable of rebuilding the society from scratch. Also, many of them were built with large parts of their structure salvaged from other ships.
The lack of an LF battery is a problem, but I expect given the relatively short ranges of most Btech sensor systems and the fact that the society probably keeps these things in out of the way locations like the Oort clouds, detection, short of betrayal or bad luck, isn't the same issue it'd be for a warship.


Speaking of, I couldn't find the story Fragmentation over at fanfiction.net.  Anybody have an idea why?

*Never mind, found it.  Odd, it wasn't coming up when I searched the title.
« Last Edit: 14 June 2019, 11:12:09 by Red Pins »
...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
Glitter - the herpes of the craft supply world.

Kasaga

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 322
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #55 on: 14 June 2019, 15:15:18 »
Speaking of, I couldn't find the story Fragmentation over at fanfiction.net.  Anybody have an idea why?

*Never mind, found it.  Odd, it wasn't coming up when I searched the title.

Can you toss a link my way?

Red Pins

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2528
  • Inspiration+Creativity=Insanity
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #56 on: 14 June 2019, 23:35:24 »
PM sent.
...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
Glitter - the herpes of the craft supply world.

Korzon77

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2161
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #57 on: 15 June 2019, 03:14:30 »
A pity it wasn't finished. Quite interesting.

wolfcannon

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 751
    • wolfcannon's photobucket album
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #58 on: 15 June 2019, 14:11:12 »
what story?

Daniels Avenger                Clan Coyote
General Jennifer Daniels    Galaxy Commander Jim Skyes
                                        Omicron Galaxy
Clan Wolf in Exile
328th Assault Cluster(the Lion Hearted)
Star Captain James Sword

Red Pins

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2528
  • Inspiration+Creativity=Insanity
Re: Fan XTRO: The Society
« Reply #59 on: 15 June 2019, 18:18:01 »
Fragmentation.

TLDR; belters jump out space colonies, become super-advanced.  Troll Cranston Snord, the Dragoons, and ComStar.  Enjoyable but never finished.

Has a couple of those face-slapping, "Why didn't I think of that?" -tech ideas, like using DropShips as batteries.

*!

You know, the KF drive doesn't need much mass, it's the battery that sucks it up.  Imagine a Monitor with a KF drive powered by reloadable batteries... 
...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
Glitter - the herpes of the craft supply world.

 

Register