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Author Topic: Special Forces Weaponry  (Read 747 times)

Triptych

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Special Forces Weaponry
« on: 09 January 2019, 10:30:09 »
OK, busy writing a new sci-fi book and I wanted to make sure my info was updated on this subject.

Several main characters will belong to the world's various special forces units, to that end I need to make sure that all the weapons they carry are accurate, so if anyone could help me out I will be very thankful.  :thumbsup:

On reading various websites, here's what I have in regards to currently issued weapons for USN SEALs:

carbines: FN SCAR, HK 416
submachine guns: HK MP-7
Sniper rifles: Barrett 50, SR-25, AX308
machineguns: FN mk46, M240
pistols: Glock 19

Do Delta and Green Berets carry different firearms?

British SAS:

HK G36, HK 417, Sig Sauer P226, Browning HP pistol

Any info on German, French, Russian, and Isreali spec forces weapons? TIA.

Kidd

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #1 on: 09 January 2019, 11:25:31 »
Many Special Forces units around the world give their people near carte blanche as to what weapons they use and modifications to said weapons based on individual operator preference so long as it doesn't impinge on efficiency e.g. some joker hankers for 5.7mm out of a whole squadron of 5.56mm users

FYI the US SOCOM have been playing with 6.8mm for a while now and rumour has it that the US Army will push that way

Would not also surprise me to see AK-104s and RPK-16s either. Anyway a wide range of international weapons would be available to the unit for familiarisation.

For the rest, wiki helps loads :D

I don't think the Brits have been using the Browning HP for a loooong while... And the G36 is not exactly in top favour. HK 416 seems to be the go-to for lots of spec ops around the world.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #2 on: 09 January 2019, 15:25:06 »
The book about the team that took out Osama bin Laden went into a little detail about that.  The budget is widespread and there is no real standard; the individual operators are told to come up with different "bags" for different kinds of missions.  And each bag is entirely up to their discretion based on weapons, loadout, etc.  There's also a very, very well supplied team of armorers that are there to customize and tune whatever the troops want however they'd like it.

I imagine your team may have some common aspects (ammunition, mostly) but everyone is going to have specialized stuff from a suppressed sniper rifle to some silent SMGs to typical assault rifles to full-up beltfeds, with all the lasers, lights, and optics you can imagine.  Not loaded up like a movie; things like IR lasers to point out targets, various filtered lights, that sort of thing.  Also things like 'using similar weapons to the enemy' would be a thing as well, but really...knock yourself out.

garhkal

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #3 on: 09 January 2019, 15:39:26 »
Surprised there's no P90s on that list.
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #4 on: 09 January 2019, 15:52:17 »
Surprised there's no P90s on that list.
I think it has to do with the submachine gun bullet size and the fact that its calibre is 5.6mm
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Ruger

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #5 on: 09 January 2019, 16:09:16 »
I think it has to do with the submachine gun bullet size and the fact that its calibre is 5.6mm

The P90 is 5.7x28 mm caliber...

Ruger
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Matti

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #6 on: 09 January 2019, 16:10:36 »
carbines: FN SCAR, HK 416
YouTube had recommended me videos about SCAR, so I watched couple. In one man says he'd rather have M4. Gonna link that one, and I warn about colourful language:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CCp5g4Zki8

In addition of finding out what weapons are preferred in reality and why, check out how much weapons and their accessories weigh. Or: how much ammunition, accurate range, and utility each weapon can provide for given weight (say, 20 kilograms altogether). Light weight carbine (M4) with 5,56 mm ammunition with (or without) simple scope is going to leave much more room for ammunition than SCAR-H with range finder equipped scope and grenade launcher.
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kato

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #7 on: 09 January 2019, 16:17:55 »
Any info on German, French, Russian, and Isreali spec forces weapons? TIA.
For France, with special forces Direct Action you basically get a standard mix of MP7A1 SMGs, HK416 rifles, Glock 19 pistols (and variably about anything that the Army or Navy issue) while with the specialized forces Special Operations Command you have a standard army outfit plus SCAR-L and - Naval Commandos - SIG551 rifles.

I think it has to do with the submachine gun bullet size and the fact that its calibre is 5.6mm
Not stopping the MP7 and its 4.6x30 carbine-styled ammunition that's for a similar specialized purpose as 5.7x28.

Kidd

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #8 on: 09 January 2019, 17:12:23 »
OP don't forget shotguns, sniper rifles (including anti-material rifles), grenade and rocket launchers...

The book about the team that took out Osama bin Laden went into a little detail about that. 

That is what I was referring to. I was really surprised when I read that. Asked a guy who'd been in my local spec ops and he confirmed it.

Changed my mind a bit about what Death Commandos and Rabid Foxes might realistically pilot...

Surprised there's no P90s on that list.
Oh no, the P90 was trialled for a while by a few teams (including my country's) for the 5.7mm's reputed tactical armour piercing qualities. It was one of the (touted) favourites for a while, along with the MP5, MP7, UMP... then you get some less-common ones like the Colt SMG, Scorpion Evo 3, Micro Tavor... My guy said they liked to do that, send off for a few pieces of whatever the new hotness was, and try them out.

Daryk

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #9 on: 09 January 2019, 18:43:30 »
I thought there was a Sig Sauer replacing Glocks in US service...  ???

Bosefius

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #10 on: 09 January 2019, 19:09:15 »
US SOCOM seem to be submachinegun lite. Instead, they use the HK416/M4 in various barrel lengths.

A SEAL armory: https://imgur.com/a/xMwBK

Also, check out r/militaryporn
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Bosefius

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #11 on: 09 January 2019, 19:10:55 »
I thought there was a Sig Sauer replacing Glocks in US service...  ???

The Sig is already used heavily by SOCOM, the P226 is being adopted as the replacement for the Beretta 9mm for all forces.

Edit: As Ghost pointed out below, it's the P320, not P226, that the military is adopting.
« Last Edit: 10 January 2019, 05:50:39 by Bosefius »
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Daryk

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #12 on: 09 January 2019, 19:15:45 »
Rog, thanks for the clarification!  :thumbsup:

Ghost0402

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #13 on: 09 January 2019, 23:59:31 »
I thought there was a Sig Sauer replacing Glocks in US service...  ???
Sig M17's (P320) are replacing Beretta's in general military service.  The Seals picked up the Glock to replace the Sig P226 but there are still plenty of those avaiable.  Sig M11's (P228) are carried by Navy flyers and maybe the rest of the flying services too, not sure.  Those will be replaced with M18's (Compact P320.)
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Triptych

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #15 on: 24 January 2019, 11:56:03 »
Thanks for the links, everyone. Im currently writing a chapter in which the world's special forces band together to fight aliens, so each unit has sort of like their own weapons.  :D

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #16 on: 24 January 2019, 12:07:57 »
Thanks for the links, everyone. Im currently writing a chapter in which the world's special forces band together to fight aliens, so each unit has sort of like their own weapons.  :D
They would start with their own preferred weapons they're most familiar with for mission they know what is (assassinate officers, aggressive recon, etc) until they learn enough from their encounters with the aliens to pick weapons better suited for fighting them.
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DOC_Agren

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #17 on: 28 January 2019, 00:47:10 »
Please tell me 1 of the people will be a Spetsnaz trooper with MPL-50 entrenching tool for hand to hand fighting.
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CDAT

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #18 on: 02 February 2019, 14:10:14 »
I did not see anyone post it, but you have the Mk 18 that was speced out for the SEAL's. It is just a 10 inch M4, but also kind of fills the SMG roll somewhat.

Triptych

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #19 on: 02 February 2019, 17:02:09 »
Please tell me 1 of the people will be a Spetsnaz trooper with MPL-50 entrenching tool for hand to hand fighting.
Thanks for the tip! I might just try and fit this into the storyline!  ;D

Drop Bear

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #20 on: 11 February 2019, 07:36:17 »
USMC and USN every few years get given a bunch of .45ACP Colts built off modernized 1911's everyone loves them by all accounts, Colt say they want to refine things a bit before they submit a weapon for full production trials. USN & USMC end up with enough .45's to fill their operational needs for when they need some more kick, and they then order up a new batch of M9's since Army, Air-force and most of the US Allies use 9mmP.

Shotguns are also popular with Opps, even if it's just to use Breacher shells, but check out FRAG-12

glitterboy2098

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #21 on: 11 February 2019, 22:48:06 »
special ops sometimes get those custom built things that no one else does. like Navy SEALs in Vietnam and the China Lake grenade launcher.



i get why the M203 caught on rather than this thing, but i am surprised no effort got made to turn it into a more mainstream weapon. guess that revolver type magazines just worked better.
« Last Edit: 11 February 2019, 22:50:48 by glitterboy2098 »

CDAT

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #22 on: 12 February 2019, 02:06:38 »
special ops sometimes get those custom built things that no one else does. like Navy SEALs in Vietnam and the China Lake grenade launcher.



i get why the M203 caught on rather than this thing, but i am surprised no effort got made to turn it into a more mainstream weapon. guess that revolver type magazines just worked better.

I would have much rather had one of these than the M203. The M203 is not a very good weapon in my opinion, it is accurate enough, but that is about all it has going for it. I do think that the revolver type would be even better than the slide action.

Matti

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #23 on: 30 March 2019, 17:09:06 »
YouTube had recommended me videos about SCAR, so I watched couple. In one man says he'd rather have M4. Gonna link that one, and I warn about colourful language:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CCp5g4Zki8
In video is complained about weapon jamming several times per clip. In another video man says it never jammed for him. Why the bloody difference??
Quote
The kind of stuff he's talking about is only... you can only get it from guys who have actually been there and used it, it's not some range monkey
It's dirt, isn't it? Crawling around in mud, sand, grass, and whatever else, weapon gets dirty, and that leads to jams. Those things aren't problems in shooting ranges. Have I got it right? And is this useful for Triptych?
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #24 on: 30 March 2019, 18:48:05 »
cleaning (or lack there of) could definitely be a factor. i'm reminded of the introduction of the M-16, where the prototype design had features meant to minimize cleaning need.. which didn't get put into the production model. which, because the prototype needed it so little, shipped with no toolkits or manuals on how to clean them. resulting in tons of malfunctions that caused all sorts of trouble for the troops in Vietnam. and getting it fixed took time, to the point that now they are one of the more reliable weapons out there, but only just recently shook off the stigma of those first models.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Special Forces Weaponry
« Reply #25 on: 30 March 2019, 19:06:53 »
Historically it was two factors - all that you cite, AND a change in propellant powder from stick powder (which burns relatively clean) to ball powder (which doesn't) because of budget reasons.  Blame RULE FOUR REDACTED TO PROTECT THE CENSORTRON'S EARS McNamara.

Huh, side note, spoiler tags don't work if your text isn't black.  Note for the future!

Where was I - oh yeah.  Between the removal of chrome lining on the barrels, cleaning kits, and other adjustments to the rifle declared by SEE PREVIOUS and the higher-fouling powder switch, yeah, the rifles had issues.  MOST of which, on their own, wouldn't have been too bad and overcome without too many issues in the field.  All of them at once was a problem, yes.

Side note, when you do buy an AR-type rifle, or frankly any other rifle that has the option, chromium lining on the barrel (not chrome-moly barrels, that's something else) is always a good option.  Much harder to get dirty, much easier to clean.  Worth springing for unless you groove on cleaning solvents and brushes.  (Who am I to judge?)

 

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