Additional alternative LB-X ammo

[RifleMech]

This thread https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=64143.0 and looking at Wiki got me wondering about additional ammo types besides slug and shot. Being smoothbore weapons I was wondering if LB-X could fire other ammo types;

A Flechette round to deal with pesky infantry and maybe light BAR vehicles. It'd work like a normal Flechette round with a bonus to strike.

Chain Shot or Bar Shot round to entangle/trip mechs and knockout VTOL Rotors. I'm thinking Chain shot would do half damage but entangle like a chain whip. The Bar Shot rolls for damage as normal but its chances to entangle are half of the chain whip. Against VTOLs entangling the rotor causes the vehicle to crash.


Thoughts?

[Sartris]

Bola pods already exist for iNarc with similar effects to what you describe. I’d check there for a template

[The_Caveman]

Seeing as LB-X cluster shells are basically submunition dispensers, you would think somebody would've cooked up incendiary rounds for them.

Other possibilities would be thermobaric shells, chemical shells, or even EMP shells.

Shoot, since the LB-X has a built-in rangefinder and ballistic computer (per TRO2750) you could probably even get it to lay down Thunder mines or Swarm submunitions.

[Major Headcase]

Gumballs. Giant gumballs.

[The_Caveman]

Gumballs. Giant gumballs.

TAOFLEDERMAUS, BattleTech edition!

*cue a life-size gummy UrbanMech for ballistics testing*

[garhkal]

TAOFLEDERMAUS, BattleTech edition!

*cue a life-size gummy UrbanMech for ballistics testing*

Or lots of bowling balls..  Try to walk on that!

[Hptm. Streiger]

...have the same issues.
Unfortunately I did not make pictures of the progress in sketchup.

The important fact about LBX is the smooth bore - so a solid shot is a challenge as well -> my idea was a fin stabilized shell using base bleed effect for increased range:

similar to the italian Vulcano LR rounds:


for the cluster round the idea was to have "disposable" metal storm barrels in each round. You might have several 40mm HEDP shells backed behind each other and those are electric triggered releasing a configurable pattern.

Of course both ideas were based on the "Large Bore"-X  so you don't have the typical burst per shot but just 1 shot per shot

[Wereling]

Since LB-X rounds are listed as "cluster" and "slug", I've always assumed that they were more like actual shotgun shells. I figured the "slug" would be a self-stabilizing shape like a Diabolo projectile, or perhaps with a molded exterior like a Foster slug.

[Xochi]

Since LB-X rounds are listed as "cluster" and "slug", I've always assumed that they were more like actual shotgun shells. I figured the "slug" would be a self-stabilizing shape like a Diabolo projectile, or perhaps with a molded exterior like a Foster slug.

They are actually canisters that blow up at designated ranges when coming close to a target. More like an actual Flak Cannon.

[The_Caveman]

I think of them more like artillery cluster munitions. You have a "bus" projectile with between a few dozen and several hundred submunitions packed around it depending on the bore size, and that splits open at a specified range from the target producing a conical spray of bomblets.

Actual buckshot wouldn't work very well as an anti-Mech weapon.

The "slug" projectiles are probably conventional fin-stabilized HEAT warheads.





Cluster rounds would resemble the latter, but with pop-out fins like the former.

[RifleMech]

Bola pods already exist for iNarc with similar effects to what you describe. I’d check there for a template

Thanks :) :thumbsup:

Seeing as LB-X cluster shells are basically submunition dispensers, you would think somebody would've cooked up incendiary rounds for them.

Other possibilities would be thermobaric shells, chemical shells, or even EMP shells.

Shoot, since the LB-X has a built-in rangefinder and ballistic computer (per TRO2750) you could probably even get it to lay down Thunder mines or Swarm submunitions.

Cool.  :)

Since LB-X rounds are listed as "cluster" and "slug", I've always assumed that they were more like actual shotgun shells. I figured the "slug" would be a self-stabilizing shape like a Diabolo projectile, or perhaps with a molded exterior like a Foster slug.

They are actually canisters that blow up at designated ranges when coming close to a target. More like an actual Flak Cannon.

Since BattleTech Compendium described LB-X describes the special munitions as acting like an anti-BattleMech shotgun in combat that's how I've pictured it. Which has confused me as shot spreads out the further it goes. The munitions being more like Flak helps with the longer range but what if there were a "shot" round acting like an area effect weapon at medium and longer ranges?

[The_Caveman]

what if there were a "shot" round acting like an area effect weapon at medium and longer ranges?

No reason you couldn't reprogram the existing cluster rounds to burst open earlier for a wider spread. But I'm not sure how much benefit there would really be, aside from splitting the damage across multiple targets in the same hex. Which would be of extremely limited utility for anything smaller than an LB-20X.

Here's another idea: what about a Stacked Projectile ammo load?


Two slugs per cartridge instead of one, functions like an Ultra autocannon when fired, but instead of the jamming mechanic (which doesn't apply as the weapon is firing at standard rate) you count each hex as two hexes of range (minimum range is measured normally) to reflect the velocity reduction from firing a heavier load.

[RifleMech]

No reason you couldn't reprogram the existing cluster rounds to burst open earlier for a wider spread. But I'm not sure how much benefit there would really be, aside from splitting the damage across multiple targets in the same hex. Which would be of extremely limited utility for anything smaller than an LB-20X.

I think it'd be better at crit seeking, hitting multiple vehicles, and hitting more BA and Infantry.

Here's another idea: what about a Stacked Projectile ammo load?


Two slugs per cartridge instead of one, functions like an Ultra autocannon when fired, but instead of the jamming mechanic (which doesn't apply as the weapon is firing at standard rate) you count each hex as two hexes of range (minimum range is measured normally) to reflect the velocity reduction from firing a heavier load.

I had wondered about that but couldn't figure out how it'd work. That sounds good to me. I suppose buck and ball (one slug and one shot) could be handled in the same way?

[Atarlost]

I've long imagined LBX autocannons as using multiple detonator cartridges similar to Metal Storm for their standard rounds.  This lets them fire smaller bullets in a burst while still having a cartridge large enough to make a decent cluster round, but doesn't saddle them with the issues of normal multiplex ammo.  It also explains why they're incompatible with other autocannons: they have multiple electrical ignition contacts instead of a single percussion primer. 

Having them fire a single large slug as their standard round makes them tank rifles that magically don't suffer the penalty against BAR-10 armor because they have auto in their name. 

[RifleMech]

Officially, Rifle Cannons do less damage because they have lower reloading and firing rates and less efficient propellant. The first two explain why RCs can't use the ACs optional rules. The propellant though? They're using more of it to fire a larger round at twice the range. When you consider the HRC already does less damage per round than an AC/20 reducing the damage even more doesn't make sense.

A 150mm Crusher SH Cannon AC/20 round does 10 points of damage, when split between 2 targets, at a max of 12 hexes. A 150mm Avalon Slugger Heavy Rifle round does 9 points of damage. 1 point less at a max range if Line of Sight.

Why reduce the HRC damage another 3 points? Especially when no other weapon that age has it's damage reduced.

[Hellraiser]

Hmm.

I recall some fiction that clearly described an LB10X as an "Anti-mech shotgun" effect,  so I'm thinking its not a timed explosive.

I picture them as tank sized shotgun shells like the old Behive 105mm or new Canister Shot 120mm rounds but instead of hundreds of shrapnel we get a small # of larger pellets.

Something between 0000 buckshot & tri-shot but sized up for AC ammo

[RifleMech]

That's what I thought.

[HobbesHurlbut]

Hmm.

I recall some fiction that clearly described an LB10X as an "Anti-mech shotgun" effect,  so I'm thinking its not a timed explosive.

I picture them as tank sized shotgun shells like the old Behive 105mm or new Canister Shot 120mm rounds but instead of hundreds of shrapnel we get a small # of larger pellets.

Something between 0000 buckshot & tri-shot but sized up for AC ammo

Which beg the question; do the rules blurb trump the fiction blurb?

[Sartris]

i don't know if orders of fiction were ever established in the canonical ladder of authority. if taken as sub-elements of actual canon sources, the rulebook supersedes the fiction

[RifleMech]

Officially Rules take precedence over everything.

[The_Caveman]

The key is "like an anti-Mech shotgun". They aren't saying LB-X cannons are literally 'Mech-sized shotguns. The effect on the target is described by analogy to something familiar to the audience.

TRO2750, the first publication to feature the LB-10X, directly describes the cluster round as breaking up into multiple submunitions after firing. This is not how shotguns work.

(Interestingly, the same document labels the LB-X gun's unique fire control system "Mercury IV" which makes me wonder if it's related to Artemis IV and if the Star League didn't have a whole suite of experimental fire control systems named after various Olympian deities...)

[RifleMech]

The early TROs had all kinds of special targeting systems.