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Author Topic: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?  (Read 1859 times)

Sartris

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #30 on: 06 February 2019, 15:58:57 »
At $6 the Star League book is much more affordable than a print copy on the secondary market

SteelRaven

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #31 on: 06 February 2019, 16:05:33 »
Just purchase the PDF of the original House Steiner book for just that reason, it was a great buy for the price. 
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Colt Ward

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #32 on: 06 February 2019, 16:20:52 »
I will throw another one- back in the FCCW when Archer's crew landed on Odessa and accidentally faced off with the Irregulars who were camped in . . . Old Bealtown?  The city had to be abandoned after 1SW or 2SW and even the river was poisoned IIRC.
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #33 on: 07 February 2019, 07:11:35 »
Arcturus the former Lyran Capital is full of them.  Everyone left when the government moved to Tharkad.

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #34 on: 07 February 2019, 09:56:33 »
Tangerz has a lot of cities with no folks in them, as well.
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Weirdo

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #35 on: 07 February 2019, 10:41:34 »
Terra has oodles of abandoned cities, though for different reasons than most worlds.

I wonder if Garland, TX was one of them?
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cray

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #36 on: 07 February 2019, 21:21:21 »
Arcturus the former Lyran Capital is full of them.  Everyone left when the government moved to Tharkad.

The Steiner Sourcebook indicated that about Arcturus, but it doesn't fit available JumpShip numbers or how the population changed over the centuries. Per pg. 376 A Time of War gave a different view of Arcturus:

"Arcturus was once the Lyran capital, and unlike most worlds of the Inner
Sphere, its population growth has been slightly negative for
some time because local cultural issues discourage large families.
The population peaked at 3.3 billion during the Golden Years of
the Star League (more than two hundred years after the Lyran
capital moved to Tharkad). In previous publications, ComStar
incorrectly juxtaposed the loss of capital status more than six
hundred years ago with the modern population decline and
suggested the world was trapped in its glorious past because it
preserved its old architecture
"

Tangerz has a lot of cities with no folks in them, as well.

Abandoned cities are common in BT. Truly lost ones are rarer.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

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Weirdo

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #37 on: 08 February 2019, 10:10:40 »
The only difference between abandoned and lost is the state of that society's record keeping.
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Sartris

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #38 on: 08 February 2019, 10:29:56 »
record keeping plus accessibility.

a semi-underground mining settlement abandoned in 2810 after it got partially flooded by magma is much easier to forget about than something you can easily see from a road or rail line or that shows up on satellite imaging.

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #39 on: 08 February 2019, 10:37:19 »
Some cities on Arcturus have been abandoned.  TRO: 3145 references the "long-ago abandoned" city of Brighton. 

Other hits for the keyword "abandoned city" include:

The city of Priam on Roche. (OTP: Widowmaker Absorption)
Daemon on Waldorff (Era Report: 3062)
Unnamed city/unnamed world in the Hell's Horses OZ (XTRO Clans Minotaur entry)
Denton on Arc-Royal (OTP Red Corsair)


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skiltao

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #40 on: 08 February 2019, 12:25:42 »
The Steiner Sourcebook indicated that about Arcturus, but it doesn't fit available JumpShip numbers or how the population changed over the centuries.

Too quick on the draw here. ;) The Steiner Sourcebook doesn't say the people left the planet, it says they left the cities and went into the countryside. Even if they had gone off-world, we know neither the population nor the spacelift for 2407.

Quote
Abandoned cities are common in BT. Truly lost ones are rarer.

Yeah, I'm not sure how effective Caph's jungles would realistically be against an orbital lidar survey.
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SteelRaven

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #41 on: 08 February 2019, 12:28:37 »
Too quick on the draw here. ;) The Steiner Sourcebook doesn't say the people left the planet, it says they left the cities and went into the countryside. Even if they had gone off-world, we know neither the population nor the spacelift for 2407.

We where talking about people leaving the city, not the entire planet.
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skiltao

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #42 on: 08 February 2019, 13:07:05 »
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or if you missed what Cray said. ???
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Colt Ward

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #43 on: 08 February 2019, 13:45:57 »
I want to say the Marsden tank entry talked about how Arcturus economy tanked after the capital moved.

I mean, if you look you can find abandoned towns out in the US West where the mines played out or the railroad changed the traffic routes.
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Kovax

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #44 on: 08 February 2019, 13:59:19 »
I've been through a couple of mining towns in the American West, and seen cases where the whole town consists of mobile homes on cinder blocks, ready to pick up and move on short notice.

I also happen to live within reasonable driving distance of Centralia, PA, where the coal mines beneath the town caught fire and the town was abandoned.  They've razed most of it over the last couple of decades, but it used to look pretty creepy with all of the boarded up or broken windows, overgrown lawns (or else scorched), and warning signs posted.  At one time you could occasionally see tongues of flame leaping up through cracks in the road or pavements, but the fire has long since burned out under the town and migrated a few miles away, although the ground is now unstable.

I would assume that the abandoned towns/cities would be looted over time (and some buildings cannibalized for materials), so there would be very little left that wasn't either permanently secured or simply not worth carrying.  Most archaeological sites of ancient cities find very little from the end of the city, since those would typically be looted, but a lot of earlier materials which were lost and buried under later developments or thrown away and buried in garbage piles.

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #45 on: 08 February 2019, 14:43:04 »
Yeah, I stayed for a bit in a company town that closed up when the local copper mine was bought & shut down.  The 'town' was sold off to a university as housing for some of their more energetic experiments in the desert.  But I understand what you are saying- heck (avoiding rule 4) we have some places today in the US that are going through that phase.

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Kit deSummersville

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #46 on: 08 February 2019, 14:47:25 »
I mean, if you look you can find abandoned towns out in the US West where the mines played out or the railroad changed the traffic routes.

Which one is Detroit?  :D
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Colt Ward

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #47 on: 08 February 2019, 14:49:05 »
Detroit's problem is RULE4RULE4RULE4RULE4, and RULE4RULE4RULE4 only made it worse.
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Kit deSummersville

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #48 on: 08 February 2019, 15:04:14 »
Detroit's problem is RULE4RULE4RULE4RULE4, and RULE4RULE4RULE4 only made it worse.

By Rule4, you clearly mean the Taurian Concordat, right?  :P
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mbear

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #49 on: 11 February 2019, 08:29:51 »
What about using closed armed forces bases as another example? I think large parts of the Presidio out in San Francisco have been abandoned, haven't they? I mean Mythbusters used a series of streets in the town to test drunk driving myths, so there can't be too many people.


On a different but possibly related topic, what about someone like the Omniss terrorists or Word of Blake setting up a base hidden from the residents of Colony-ville? If most of your infrastructure is in one place, wouldn't it be easier to establish a base on the other side of the world?

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #50 on: 11 February 2019, 11:11:16 »
On a different but possibly related topic, what about someone like the Omniss terrorists or Word of Blake setting up a base hidden from the residents of Colony-ville? If most of your infrastructure is in one place, wouldn't it be easier to establish a base on the other side of the world?

Militia did go to ground on a planet in the Republic, I think it was a southern continent that was not developed.  But the current generation of leadership hired some mercs to go investigate some suspicious 'findings' like seeing fields from satellites or such.
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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #51 on: 11 February 2019, 17:44:54 »
On a different but possibly related topic, what about someone like the Omniss terrorists or Word of Blake setting up a base hidden from the residents of Colony-ville? If most of your infrastructure is in one place, wouldn't it be easier to establish a base on the other side of the world?

That's one of the scenarios in Touring the Stars: Gulf Breeze.
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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #52 on: 13 February 2019, 05:21:34 »
Note that depending on the tech level, wealth of hte original colonists, a distributed model is quite easy to visualize--fusion powered small craft for transort, combined with a robust communications array in orbit would allow people to have small settlements, yet still be in touch with everyone else, especially when a flight to that central hospital is only a 20 minute suborbitable hop away.

Then the succession wars hit, and all your small craft are appropriated to allow your inbred leaders to claim the throne, and a bunch of pirates cart off your com sats.

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #53 on: 13 February 2019, 09:55:33 »
That's one of the scenarios in Touring the Stars: Gulf Breeze.

Has that been released? I don't seem to have it in my collection, which I thought was complete...
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Sartris

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #54 on: 13 February 2019, 10:00:31 »
Gulf Breeze has a release date of "TBD" currently. It was on the spate of pdf offerings that reopened the flow recently so I imagine we'll see it sooner rather than later

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #55 on: 13 February 2019, 10:29:31 »
Note that depending on the tech level, wealth of hte original colonists, a distributed model is quite easy to visualize--fusion powered small craft for transort, combined with a robust communications array in orbit would allow people to have small settlements, yet still be in touch with everyone else, especially when a flight to that central hospital is only a 20 minute suborbitable hop away.

Then the succession wars hit, and all your small craft are appropriated to allow your inbred leaders to claim the throne, and a bunch of pirates cart off your com sats.

That's roughly the situation on one of the worlds spotlighted in an MWDA novel - people live on widely scattered ranches throughout the planet.  Hostile fauna and rough terrain make land transportation infrastructure impractical, so everyone has their own personal small aircraft for getting around and visiting the neighbors.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Sartris

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #56 on: 13 February 2019, 10:33:45 »
it's like that old joke about the isolated reaches of alaska - "half the population has a pilot's license and the other half flies without one"

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #57 on: 16 February 2019, 12:55:58 »
Settlement patterns shift over time as the economic demographics of the planet change, or you could have natural or industrial disasters that prompt evacuations.  Look up Indianola, TX, and Centralia, PA, for examples.

Or, you could also look up the effect of the Highway system on Railroad towns in the midwest.  When rail was the growing means of interstate travel for bulk goods, you had lots of little towns sprout up along those lines. With the rise of the interstate highway, a shift in the pattern, towns no longer on a major thoroughfare weren't getting the commerce they need to keep afloat, let alone grow.  Even places with dedicated grain elevators would quickly become ghost towns or bedroom communities for a close-by burg with active business.

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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #58 on: 16 February 2019, 13:13:35 »
Abandoned cities are common in BT. Truly lost ones are rarer.

Hello, old Rim Worlds systems. Not only did a lot of those space dots disappear, but it was suggested that there might be populations left on a lot of those worlds when they were abandoned even by the Lyran Commonwealth.
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Re: Touring the Stars - How Many 'Colony-villes'?
« Reply #59 on: 17 February 2019, 13:27:51 »
Hello, old Rim Worlds systems. Not only did a lot of those space dots disappear, but it was suggested that there might be populations left on a lot of those worlds when they were abandoned even by the Lyran Commonwealth.

Yes. The same thing happened in the Outworlds, e.g., Wynn's Roost.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

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**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
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Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.