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Author Topic: MotW: Thunder Hawk  (Read 14075 times)

Ghost_msl

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #90 on: 03 May 2019, 06:17:55 »
Does hardened armour negate SB pellets the same way it does LB cluster rounds?

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Gabe

Does hardened do anything vs LB clusters? I thought that was clan Lamellor-FF?

UnLimiTeD

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #91 on: 03 May 2019, 07:45:59 »
Hardened armour has no special properties regarding pellets. It doesn't reduce damage by X, it just can take twice as much per box.
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Moonsword

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #92 on: 03 May 2019, 09:03:36 »
Does hardened do anything vs LB clusters? I thought that was clan Lamellor-FF?

You're dead on about lamellor.  For the record, Silver Bullet and LB-X cluster rounds are resolved the same way mechanically because they have the same type codes - DB, C, and F.  The other codes on those weapons don't affect this specific question.  TW lists the code meanings on pages 113-114  if you're not familiar with them.

To expand on what UnLimiTeD said about the hardened armor, it does reduce penetrating crits, which can be helpful if you're getting sandblasted with LB-X pellets but yeah, it's not going to do much about the damage itself.  On the other hand, given how thick hardened armor can be, sandblasting it is usually more threatening for vehicle motive hits or head hits (for pilot wounds) unless I missed a detail in the rules, not armor loss or crits.

To really blow through hardened, you need RE lasers (which blow straight through it like it's standard) or a whole pile of heavy guns.
« Last Edit: 03 May 2019, 09:09:59 by Moonsword »

Hptm. Streiger

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #93 on: 03 May 2019, 09:15:40 »
Does hardened do anything vs LB clusters? I thought that was clan Lamellor-FF?
Quite the opposite... while a single box can take 2 hits, you are forced to round up. so every hit of a cluster round removes a box.

... yeah just realized that I have done a mistake. under the old maximum tech, it was rounding, tactical operations have it correctly. Maybe I should reconsider the whole hardened armor as viable again.
 

« Last Edit: 03 May 2019, 09:30:50 by Hptm. Streiger »

Weirdo

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #94 on: 03 May 2019, 09:21:03 »
Quite the opposite... while a single box can take 2 hits, you are forced to round up. so every hit of a cluster round removes a box.

Incorrect. There is no rounding. You use slashes to mark damage on hardened armor, so / means one point of damage, and X means two points and that armor dot is filled up.
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Wrangler

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #95 on: 03 May 2019, 09:56:48 »
I was looking around, i found a Fan-TRO had better variant, but it's mix tech one. Clan Gauss Rifles, Case II, Light 300 engine, Double Heat sinks, C3, 4 Small X-lasers.  Interesting machine.  Wish CGL had thought that as refit version.
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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #96 on: 03 May 2019, 10:08:32 »
Quite the opposite... while a single box can take 2 hits, you are forced to round up. so every hit of a cluster round removes a box.

... yeah just realized that I have done a mistake. under the old maximum tech, it was rounding, tactical operations have it correctly. Maybe I should reconsider the whole hardened armor as viable again.

Hardened is quite viable up into the 3100s because you get things that let you really bring out its benefits.
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Weirdo

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #97 on: 03 May 2019, 10:11:10 »
Okay, I'm serious. Customs and talk of customs do not belong here. There is only one part of the forum where they're meant to go. C:-)
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Ulquiorra9000

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #98 on: 25 June 2019, 12:18:23 »
I haven't used the Thunder Hawk much since I don't yet have a mini for it. Now I'm wondering: how much BV should a player dedicate for a guard force around a Thunder Hawk? Maybe a pair of lights, or an assault tank, or a bunch of battle armor? Is it even worth it? Perhaps a large tank with a short-range knockout gun to deter units trying to flank the Thunder Hawk.

JadeHellbringer

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #99 on: 25 June 2019, 12:35:24 »
I haven't used the Thunder Hawk much since I don't yet have a mini for it. Now I'm wondering: how much BV should a player dedicate for a guard force around a Thunder Hawk? Maybe a pair of lights, or an assault tank, or a bunch of battle armor? Is it even worth it? Perhaps a large tank with a short-range knockout gun to deter units trying to flank the Thunder Hawk.

Well, first off, you have the right idea on how to use one- with heavy support. It's your queen in chess- it can do a lot of great things, but losing it is crippling. The problem is that it's pretty easy to lose a Thunder Hawk- with so many ways to go 'boom', and a big engine that doesn't react well to 'boom' events, it's a surprisingly fragile machine. So proper support is important.

I for one like to make sure my bases are covered. The rifles aren't as useful in-close against the kind of fast targets that will attempt to bum-rush your Hawk, and it really should be focusing on using the rifles to deal with longer-range targets anyway of the heavy and assault weight varieties, not wasting shots on fast-movers. A Hunchback makes for a great bodyguard, as they have for centuries- anyone who gets close enough to start irritating your crown jewel gets an AC/20 to the face (or whatever iteration of that gun your Hunchie of choice brought to the party). Even a fellow 100-ton beast coming for your Hawk can't ignore the Hunchback's firepower- but losing a Hunchback is probably worth the sacrifice if it means your Thunder Hawk can withdraw safely.

Another good choice is the Battle Hawk. A big problem for the Thunder Hawk is fast-moving harassers like the Spider and... er, Harasser, units that speed in, deliver a modest punch to the rear of a big Mech, and scoot away. A few passes by units like that can cripple or kill a Thunder Hawk, but it's not really all that well equipped to deal with that threat (do you want to waste your Gauss ammo on a Pegasus instead of an Orion or something like that?). The Battle Hawk's pulse lasers make for a very accurate and powerful close-range smack to the face of such units, freeing the big guy to keep throwing Gauss slugs at the enemy until it stops being funny.

Thunder Hawks are priority targets for the enemy (can't imagine why...), and so they're vulnerable to the enemy's air power- if you can get a good bombing pass from a fighter in on that thing, you can get rid of it pretty easily. Units that excel at AA, as a result, are a good thing- so units with LB-10X batteries are always welcome. The Gurteltier is a little too slow to keep up with the Thunder Hawk in any but flat terrain, but if you're setting the Hawk up on a hill or other strategic area putting a couple of Gurties nearby is handy. And hey, if the enemy doesn't throw planes at you, LB-10X cluster shots are a great way to exploit the holes punched by the Gauss rifles anyway, right? Another Steiner-flavored LB-10X unit to consider is the variant of the Hollander, which is a little underwhelming on its own but makes for an excellent support unit in a case like this.

I'll be honest though. The best way to protect a Thunder Hawk is to get rid of the damned thing and get a couple of Alacorns instead.
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Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #100 on: 25 June 2019, 13:02:55 »
I always hated to play certain Lyran players on the servers because they would have the Wall of Steel 3060- lots of Gauss and ERPPC- and use Fenrir to escort the assaults.  BA suffer no move mod so the ML, MPL and SRM Fenrir are a pain . . . ERSL are not far behind, but the others create a solid 6 hex 'go away' zone that can be placed 1 or 2 hexes behind your THawk which gives you a bit of coverage to the front for TSM'ers.

Honestly, for deployment (if I was able) I would have the two lances of mechs with one being assault direct fire (Hauptman, Atlas, Banshee, Devastator, Salamander, Marauder, etc) and the rest being skirmishers (Zeus, Victor, Warhammer, etc) and 2-4 Fenrir backing the direct fire with at least 2 Marsden IIA supporting . . . Like JHB said, if the oppo does not use VTOL or ASF then those LBX pellets can exploit the holes Gauss, ERPPC, LRM and ERLL opens up.
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Weirdo

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #101 on: 25 June 2019, 13:57:09 »
...freeing the big guy to keep throwing Gauss slugs at the enemy until it stops being funny.

Are the Thunder Hawk's ammo bins deep enough for that?
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #102 on: 25 June 2019, 15:44:49 »
Are the Thunder Hawk's ammo bins deep enough for that?

Two tons per rifle, it's not going to be firing like a Pillager or Nightstar, but it should last an average engagement.
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Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #103 on: 25 June 2019, 15:55:43 »
I think the point was more that . . . 3 gauss slugs a turn does not stop being funny.  If your the one throwing them.
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Firesprocket

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #104 on: 26 June 2019, 00:50:53 »
Maybe a pair of lights, or an assault tank, or a bunch of battle armor? Is it even worth it? Perhaps a large tank with a short-range knockout gun to deter units trying to flank the Thunder Hawk.
I'd say it is always worth it.  If something flanks your Thunderhawk it may take a turn or two of fire, but is more or less dead once any of those Gauss explode.  What plays the part of a picket and/or flanking deterant is entirely up to you, but I'd suggest looking at the following.

If you want pulse weapons look at the Nightsky, Uziel 8S, or Penetrator.  The Penetrator is going to be most ideal when you know you can bait your opponent into broken terrain.

For crit seeking there are significant options- The Bushwacker is a good option with models with either an LB-10 or 20 that doesn't signal the obvious that a Hunchback does when it hits the field.  The Bharghest also has an LB-20 options and that lateral shift can be game breaking if used correctly.  When you want to be more overt you can always take a Zeus 9WD or a Nightsky 9FC or 9SS.

As for tanks, if terrain isn't heinous you could always buy a lance of Hetzer or Saladins and load them up with precision rounds.

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #105 on: 26 June 2019, 09:53:40 »
When you want to be more overt you can always take a Zeus 9WD or a Nightsky 9FC or 9SS.

Nightstar, 95t the 9FC has 2 LB-10X IIRC with other weapons.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #106 on: 26 June 2019, 11:57:41 »
I think the point was more that . . . 3 gauss slugs a turn does not stop being funny.  If your the one throwing them.

Bingo. And let's be real, if your T-Hawk goes 16 turns of firing and runs out of ammo, your opponent deserves every bit of scorn you heap upon him for allowing a Thunder Hawk to last that long. And deserves equal credit for managing to let one of the most terrifying assault Mechs in the game pummel him that long without him just outright losing the match. For a Thunder Hawk, two tons of ammo per rifle is plenty- it shouldn't be allowed to remain on the field that long by the enemy, it'll either croak or withdraw for repairs long before the ammo bin runs dry. (And if your Hawk has to go home to get its boo-boos kissed by the techs, you're definitely not finding it funny anymore.)
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Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Thunder Hawk
« Reply #107 on: 26 June 2019, 12:37:49 »
Hey, if it needs to it can always find a nearby IS Standard or Cavalier squad to muzzle load its Gauss Rifles.
Colt Ward

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