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Author Topic: MotW: Apollo  (Read 5635 times)

JadeHellbringer

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #60 on: 12 February 2019, 12:14:53 »
"Look, SOMEONE'S gotta fire off all this ammo, I mean we can't just leave it sitting here. What if some kid finds it?"
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
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Weirdo

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #61 on: 12 February 2019, 12:28:31 »
Reminds me of one of my dad's Navy stories. The crew had to empty their ship's magazines prior to decommissioning, and their choices were to do it in port by hand, or do it at sea, by gun. You can guess which they chose.  :)
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
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Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #62 on: 12 February 2019, 12:55:02 »
Its not just the physical labor, its the fricking paperwork handing it all back to supply- and them inspecting it for any reason not to take it back.
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MarauderD

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #63 on: 12 February 2019, 14:25:58 »
Given my druthers, I'd rather take a Blackjack Omni A model. That's a Mini-Archer to me. Okay, 200XL vs 220 SFE.

Comments made above regarding militia use probably make a lot of in-universe sense.

W.

Beaten to the punch by Worktroll.  I was thinking Blackjack Omni A or a Dervish (the MML version is especially nice, but for me, nearly any Dervish will do).  The FWLM had Trebs already, Apollo just seems like refilling a niche for fun.

Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #64 on: 12 February 2019, 14:56:57 »
IIRC, the BJ-O was not that widely spread when it came out in '58 but the Apollo came out in TRO3055 . . . and that was the book that covered the IS response to the Clans.

Forget that it was probably cheaper and easier to produce to start replacing losses, look where it fits in your strategic picture as a import.  Its going to your secondline forces.  If I was the AFFC in '51-'55 (it came out in '54) then I have been shuffling the refit kits, heavy mechs and better medium mechs into the Lyran zone to face the Clans.  Since the Clans have a range advantage, that definitely means the Archers & Crusaders I can move and likely the JagerMech 6-A even if I am cringing about its thinner armor.  So now I have a bunch of 4/6 companies on the CapCon, Periphery and probably the Drac borders that are missing slower missile fire support.  I certainly were not replacing them with Dervishes since with the classic trio its a fire support mech that can match the speed of heavier Clan forces.  And the AFFC has a lot of 4/6 heavy and medium lances that would have been picked over to bolster the Clan front- all those Enforcers, old Centurions, Jagermechs, Zeus, and other 3025 designs.  My new built stuff from former FS factories up to '55 besides the Watchman is being shipped to the OZ border. Lots of new build stuff (from War Dogs to Victor 9Ds) would need some fire support if a Archer/Crusader was not available as the AFFC tries to rebuild the wrecked regiments and later change over outdated equipment in the FS half (you know what ended up in warehouses . . . ).

Also look at the factory it is coming out of . . . Calloway IV which is a half dozen jumps away from the Sarna March means that its going to be easy to pull the before mentioned Archers, Crusaders and Jagermechs out of the SMM, Republican Guard and FC Regular units.  They can be moved to the OZ, perhaps even stopping on Hesperus to undergo a refit using the kits.  And you can route the smaller replacement into the Capellan March to give a slight upgrade (DHS should let it sustain the fire a Archer 2R spits out) to bring Hasek-Davion's March units back to full strength.
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Weirdo

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #65 on: 20 February 2019, 15:15:07 »
Something just occurred to me:

Three Apollo-1Ms and one Grand Titan-10M. You end up with a lance with seven LRM-15s, solid close-in defenses, and enough Small Pulse Lasers to throw a block party rave and/or commit a war crime. Averages out to a heavy lance with a total BV of 5438. By comparison, a lance of four Archer-4Ms costs 6820 BV.

Seems decent for what you pay?
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer

JadeHellbringer

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #66 on: 20 February 2019, 21:15:10 »
Now THAT is a bodyguard I didn't think of, but... movement profiles line up, good long range and short range punch... I'm intrigued.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."

+Crow T. Robot+

Weirdo

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #67 on: 20 February 2019, 21:39:15 »
The Grand Titan has always struck me as good for the escort role...but it's sooo expensive. But Apollos are dirt cheap, and need a bodyguard, so...there you go!
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #68 on: 20 February 2019, 22:04:32 »
I suppose that that is a thing you can do with a Grand Titan.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #69 on: 20 February 2019, 22:05:45 »
Lol . . . I will see your crazy and take it to 11 . . .

3 JagerMech 6-S and that Grand Titan for 4520 . . . for dakka annoyance. 
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Diamondshark

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #70 on: 05 May 2019, 10:17:55 »
I love the -1R Apollo, and buy one up whenever I have access to one in campaigns. Keep half the ammo as conventional for standard fire support, and then put Thunder LRMs in the rest of the bins--you now have the ability to bring about area control on a radical level unlike much anything else, especially while maintaining combat effectiveness at the same time.
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Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #71 on: 05 May 2019, 16:30:58 »
Should the Apollo have been used as a testbed for the new LRM types?
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Caedis Animus

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #72 on: 05 May 2019, 19:18:27 »
Should the Apollo have been used as a testbed for the new LRM types?
As in, NLRMs and ELRMs? Or alternative ammos? I'm guessing the former.
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mbear

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #73 on: 06 May 2019, 09:07:23 »
Should the Apollo have been used as a testbed for the new LRM types?

It was. In TRO:Prototypes.


"You wanna get nuts? Let's get nuts!"
And then there's the weirdo. The 4M model comes from the Prototypes TRO, and as such it's got all sorts of changes. The engine becomes an XL at last, but the speed remains 4/6. Ferro-fibrous armor appears, giving slightly less protection as before but with solid weight savings- what could the engineers be up to here? A single ER medium laser in the head replaces the original backup lasers, and... the payoff for all the weight savings, a pair of Extended LRM-15s each fed by a two-ton ammo bin. Wow. I guess it depends on how much you love the ELRM, whether you're a fan of this ride or not- the drawbacks are enormous, but the range is artillery-levels of ridiculous. Since I'm not a huge fan of them, this didn't do much for me, but your experiences may differ wildly.

Weirdo

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #74 on: 06 May 2019, 09:37:26 »
I rather like the ELRM Apollo. It's the only ELRM unit I can think of that's cheap enough that you don't feel pressured to put it in your battle line, but also has enough throw weight to have a real effect on a battle. The trick to it(and most ELRM units) is to treat it like an artillery piece - keep it far back enough to be immune to casual attacks, and give it an escort and a spotter.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"The BT universe is startlingly deficient in both wisdom and hindsight." - Cray
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer

Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #75 on: 06 May 2019, 10:19:13 »
Are you saying build it more like a artillery lance/battery?

Augmented Lance
3 ELRM Apollo
med bodyguard mech
fast troop VTOL & spotter BA

Battery
2 Lances of ELRM Apollos
Support Lance- 2 fast troop VTOLs, 2 spotter BA . . . Purifiers?
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Empyrus

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #76 on: 06 May 2019, 11:00:16 »
ERLM Apollos with Centaur BA, how's that for "micro artillery"? The Centaurs have MagClamps so they can be carried by the Apollos though that might be a bit slow going. Now, the factions don't exactly line up, but figure the Republic black ops teams can get some Centaurs.
For extra hilarity, run this as Capellan Augmented Lance: 2x Apollos, 2x Centaurs, 2x some BattleMech with faster speed than Apollos so that they can carry the Centaurs while acting as bodyguards...

EDIT Duh, didn't realize Colt Ward was thinking on similar if not identical lines.

EDIT2 I'm assuming additional units that work as spotters, but are not organic parts of this Augmented Lance.
« Last Edit: 06 May 2019, 11:27:10 by Empyrus »
IS standard and pulse lasers: red; IS ER and X-pulses: blue; Re-engineered lasers: orange; Clan ER, pulse, and ER pulse lasers: green; Clan heavy lasers: yellow; PPCs: skyblue; PPCs w/capacitor: purplish-blue.

JadeHellbringer

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #77 on: 07 May 2019, 16:08:00 »
Are you saying build it more like a artillery lance/battery?

Augmented Lance
3 ELRM Apollo
med bodyguard mech
fast troop VTOL & spotter BA

Battery
2 Lances of ELRM Apollos
Support Lance- 2 fast troop VTOLs, 2 spotter BA . . . Purifiers?

For your first option, I'd say three ELRM Apollos and something with some AA power, honestly. These should be staying back a good ways from the front lines, so if they get attacked it's going to be by fast and light units for the most part- that isn't FUN, but can be dealt with. AA though is a big problem for rear-area units, so something with an LBX is a good idea here. It's hard to beat a Hercules for the job- I admit to being biased in that direction for most Marik roles (I adore that Mech), but it fills both jobs- LBX to tell aircraft to back off, some solid close-range firepower (and a PPC to boot!) for the odd Spider or Harasser that comes snooping around, and mobile enough to rapidly redeploy to where that trouble comes from.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."

+Crow T. Robot+

Moonsword

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #78 on: 08 May 2019, 09:30:00 »
ER PPCs aren't terrible for AA, they're just not as good as LB-Xs.  Long range bands mean it's not that inaccurate.  Better yet, a 10 point hit can threshold most fighters from all angles and if you hit the right widget inside the fighter that way, you can make their PSR a lot worse or just cause them to careen out of the sky.  A lot of VTOLs won't enjoy having ten points ripped off a given location, either.

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #79 on: 08 May 2019, 10:35:54 »
I am going to have to try the ELRM company on a 96x96 hex MM double blind map- against some Wolves.  I would expect double blind to help the ELRM mechs to keep their distance longer but that 4/6 speed would give them some problems in the 'shoot n scoot' department.  I just have a feeling once they get spotted by a Wolf force, that speed difference is going to lead to them getting sliced up . . . get in short range and a single ERML is not going to cut it against fast movers.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #80 on: 08 May 2019, 11:04:10 »
No, if they don't have a good screening force, they're going to be toast.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Colt Ward

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #81 on: 08 May 2019, 11:16:20 »
I was wondering if the system would be good for general harassment or using what current doctrine calls for SP Artillery a 'raid' for a target of opportunity.  We practice this bit where they come over the radio net and order a platoon to split off from the convoy's route march to go fire up a target that was 'discovered' unexpectedly.  They call it a raid, but its also known in artillery as a 'hip shoot' I think twisting up the phrase 'shooting from the hip' to give it a spur of the moment connotation.  The tactical reason AFAIK is that your scouts or even forward maneuver elements stumble across a good target- or its a momentary opening, like a armored column changes course/speed to go through a chokepoint that was not expected.  So when they split off from the raid they are not under the same protection as the convoy or even proper/best AA umbrella . . . which is not quite the same as a mech force off on their own.

I guess I was thinking of a ELRM skirmisher team, which would help the League against the Wolf forces . . . get something fast out there with a spotter- infantry LP/OP hidden on a hill for the MLR would be best IMO.  Dump the ammo bin trying to ding up priority targets to soften the Wolf forces up before they run into the Marik lines.  Then the hypothetical unit sits behind the defensive lines to offer direct or indirect fire support.  But IMO even with sprinting rules in effect, 4/6 is too slow in any sort of terrain to play skirmisher against a Wolf Clan (who thinks 5/8 is a standard speed) force.
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Ulquiorra9000

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Re: MotW: Apollo
« Reply #82 on: 22 June 2019, 14:10:14 »
I find the Apollo to be a decent fire support unit for smaller, casual games with a few of my friends. Artemis IV doesn't seem very popular around here, but I don't mind it, since it often saves bad rolls, such as a 4 becoming a 6 so I can get three more missiles to hit a target. And maybe I'm a bit biased, but I have an attractive forest/dirt camo model that I got from a secondary seller :)

https://www.deviantart.com/ulquiorra9000/art/Apollo-800585084
« Last Edit: 22 June 2019, 14:13:52 by Ulquiorra9000 »

 

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