Register Register

Author Topic: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn  (Read 15236 times)

Ratwedge

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1060
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #60 on: 23 May 2011, 21:38:49 »
Is the Alacorn still being made? DI Morgan's fluff from '75 had suggested it wasn't.  MUL says its available, but does it mean it still being produced?

It didnt suggest anything like that, '75 merely said that it was replacing Alacorn's lost in the heavy fighting. Nothing about that suggests they arent producing them, its just as the fluff states DI are producing a huge amount of DI Morgans and their variants to cover for the holes left by dead Alacorns, Schreks and Sturmfers.
« Last Edit: 23 May 2011, 21:40:25 by Ratwedge »

StCptMara

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6010
  • Looking for new Adder skin boots
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #61 on: 23 May 2011, 21:42:05 »
It didnt suggest anything like that, '75 merely said that it was replacing Alacorn's lost in the heavy fighting. Nothing about that suggests they arent producing them, its just as the fluff states DI are producing a huge amount of DI Morgans and their variants to cover for the holes left by dead Alacorns, Schreks and Sturmfers.

Besides..if something is in the MUL, it means it is still being produced. Extinct in the MUL means "No longer being made."
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

"Greetings, Mechwarrior! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against---Oops, wrong universe" - Unknown SLDF Recruiter

Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

LordChaos

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 211
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #62 on: 23 May 2011, 22:46:31 »
I might drop a single Alacorn.  But a lance of Alacorns doesn't really need a lot of critseeking.

Yea, 12 Gauss Rifles a round is enough crit seeking in and of it's self... [rockon]
There is no problem that can't be solved by C-4.

Diplominator

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1117
  • Tactful Tactician
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #63 on: 23 May 2011, 23:24:56 »
Besides..if something is in the MUL, it means it is still being produced. Extinct in the MUL means "No longer being made."
I think that's incorrect, unless things like the -733 Highlander and any of the Wolf's Dragoons 'mechs are still somehow being produced. Those are just a few examples, but my understanding is that extinct means you won't find any anywhere except perhaps a museum. If it's not in production, but still exists in appreciable numbers somewhere, it's not extinct.  I think we're gonna need a different version of the MUL or the new Objectives series to tell us what's in production or not.

Neufeld

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2539
  • Raven, Lyran, Horse, Capellan, Canopian, Bear
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #64 on: 24 May 2011, 02:50:42 »
Besides..if something is in the MUL, it means it is still being produced. Extinct in the MUL means "No longer being made."

Wrong

Greetings,

I would like to clear up a little confusion on the definition of faction access. Honestly I am ashamed I didn't think to put this definition into the product and we will likely rectify that in a future update. A previous post referenced some guidelines, but this answer was a 'from the trenches' perspective. Each of the MUL team had to build their own set of "logic" to use as they plowed through the work.

Q- What does it mean for a faction to be listed as having access to a given design?

A- The faction has a measurable number of the design in relation to their total military size. Measurable is loosely defined as more than a "handful." A single Mackie, in the honor guard of the faction's premiere regiment, does not indicate that faction has access to the Mackie. Having one or more Hollanders in the majority of a factions front line units would be a qualification for faction access.
Faction access does not indicate any total numbers, the dirt common Valkyrie having the same check mark as the relatively uncommon Jenner JR7-C on the FedSuns faction access. It is ultimately up to the players, and if present, the gamemaster to decide how many of any one kind of unit is reasonable for game play.

Q- What defines a "Unique"?

A- We are still coming to a firm decision on this. The easy ones are the truly unique units. There is only one Prometheus (Victor's personal Daishi) and only one Eryines (The Word's "planet killer" Newgrange refit). The introduction of the XTRO series created a new category of units, where we showcased prototype units or limited run units. Again, there are no specific numbers, but a Unique unit will typically be only a "handful" of units. Few enough to keep track of and talk about by name (Yeah X-5 has a bad actuator right now, gonna need to bring it down for rebuild). If you see an XTRO unit listed as a Unique, then there are only a "handful", if you see it listed as faction access, then it fell in the "limited production run" category. Either way, XTRO units are not something you would ever see in "volume."


Thank you,
Joel BC


"Real men and women do not need Terra"
-- Grendel Roberts
"
We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

StCptMara

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6010
  • Looking for new Adder skin boots
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #65 on: 24 May 2011, 05:20:46 »
Neufeld..you will note in the MUL designs listed with factions and Extinct. If a design is not listed as "extinct,"
then it is still in production. I did mean to specify that, but I was kind of still waking up on my earlier post.
Simply put, though: Extinct means "Out of Production." The UrbanMech was extinct for a very long time, despite
it being ridiculously common in the CapCon. The Clint, despite being seen just about everywhere, was extinct.
Heck, RL, the Abrams is Extinct(they do not make new ones, they just refurbish and upgrade old ones).
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

"Greetings, Mechwarrior! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against---Oops, wrong universe" - Unknown SLDF Recruiter

Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

Neufeld

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2539
  • Raven, Lyran, Horse, Capellan, Canopian, Bear
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #66 on: 24 May 2011, 06:04:23 »
Neufeld..you will note in the MUL designs listed with factions and Extinct. If a design is not listed as "extinct,"
then it is still in production. I did mean to specify that, but I was kind of still waking up on my earlier post.
Simply put, though: Extinct means "Out of Production." The UrbanMech was extinct for a very long time, despite
it being ridiculously common in the CapCon. The Clint, despite being seen just about everywhere, was extinct.
Heck, RL, the Abrams is Extinct(they do not make new ones, they just refurbish and upgrade old ones).

That is not the definition that Welshman uses, and I consider what Welshman says to be more canon than what you says:

Extinct- Extinct is intended to mean the design is not in any "measurable" use during that Era. LAMs are considered extinct in the Dark Age. There may be some in museums or the like, but not enough to warrant them being measured in the faction access.

This is an error in the database output. We had originally planned to release this version of the MUL last year, with only a Jihad faction availability. TRO3085 and its Supplemental cross the Jihad, Dark Age boundary so we chose to update the database and start supporting multiple eras of availability in this release (something planned for much later). Unfortunately the "Extinct" heading was first intended for a single era system and we missed how it didn't translate properly when we added the Dark Age faction access. This will be corrected in future releases.

Thank you,
Joel BC

So, if the faction list reads:
Jihad: EXTINCT, X, Y, Z   Republic: EXTINCT
It is supposed to be:
Jihad: X, Y, Z    Republic: EXTINCT
quiaff?

Hello,

Most likely. Obviously until we review them all, we don't want to give a hard and fast answer. We are working to correct this with the next update.




"Real men and women do not need Terra"
-- Grendel Roberts
"
We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

StCptMara

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6010
  • Looking for new Adder skin boots
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #67 on: 24 May 2011, 09:07:28 »
Herb himself made the definition of extinct to be "No longer in production".
I am trying to remember if it was a forum post or in a Battlechat, though. However,
Herb is God, Ben and Welshman are just the Pope/Archbishop of Canterbury analogs.
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

"Greetings, Mechwarrior! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against---Oops, wrong universe" - Unknown SLDF Recruiter

Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

Einhander

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 58
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #68 on: 24 May 2011, 11:43:44 »
I hope its not extinct. To many beautiful designs are "extinct" at this point. The lack of the classic Alacorn would be a tough pill to swallow :\.

Diplominator

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1117
  • Tactful Tactician
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #69 on: 24 May 2011, 13:38:39 »
Herb himself made the definition of extinct to be "No longer in production".
I am trying to remember if it was a forum post or in a Battlechat, though. However,
Herb is God, Ben and Welshman are just the Pope/Archbishop of Canterbury analogs.
Then the MUL is in error, since there are dozens of designs that are almost certainly no longer in production that are not labeled extinct. I'll grant that anything labeled extinct is necessarily no longer in production, but things can be otherwise than extinct without being produced.  Maybe we need an "endangered" category.


Neufeld

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2539
  • Raven, Lyran, Horse, Capellan, Canopian, Bear
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #70 on: 24 May 2011, 14:04:53 »
Herb himself made the definition of extinct to be "No longer in production".
I am trying to remember if it was a forum post or in a Battlechat, though. However,
Herb is God, Ben and Welshman are just the Pope/Archbishop of Canterbury analogs.

You are just assuming that Herb and the MUL team uses same definition of the word, which looks extremely unlikely.


"Real men and women do not need Terra"
-- Grendel Roberts
"
We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
hunt bandits and support corrupt rulers and to reinforce the evils of the Inner Sphere that drove our ancestors from it so long ago."
-- Elias Crichell

Kit deSummersville

  • Precentor of Lies
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9325
  • The epicness continues!
    • Insights and Complaints on Twitter
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #71 on: 24 May 2011, 17:03:55 »
You are just assuming that Herb and the MUL team uses same definition of the word, which looks extremely unlikely.

Correct, Herb was applying that term differently than the MUL BV release did. Herb was talking about chasses as a whole that are no longer being manufactured while the MUL is specifying all the various variants of a chassis. The Zeus is not extinct(former) despite the Zeus-5S being extinct(latter).
Looking for an official answer? Check the Catalyst Interaction Forums.

Freelancer for hire, not an official CGL or IMR representative.

Everyone else's job is easy, so tell them how to do it, everyone loves that!

Millard Fillmore's favorite BattleTech writer.

gyedid

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1621
  • Always brighter on the other side of the mirror.
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #72 on: 24 May 2011, 17:33:49 »
It didnt suggest anything like that, '75 merely said that it was replacing Alacorn's lost in the heavy fighting. Nothing about that suggests they arent producing them, its just as the fluff states DI are producing a huge amount of DI Morgans and their variants to cover for the holes left by dead Alacorns, Schreks and Sturmfers.

In 3075, the Alacorn factory on New Earth (the only source of it that I'm aware of) was in WoB hands, though it had previously supplied the LAAF.  Therefore, the LAAF would've needed something from secure, domestic production to replace any Alacorns they lost.  Enter the Morgan.

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 17169
  • Dang it!
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #73 on: 24 May 2011, 19:19:29 »
That would suggest Alcorn could be extinct for the moment if you go by Herb Definition (not being made now).

I wish BT would use worktroll's Army Report style availability: common uncommon,  and rare. 
That would clear things up quite bit how scarce a design is and add the dreaded extinct when necessary.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

Gryphon

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 325
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #74 on: 24 May 2011, 19:34:11 »
Or even just s short blurb about when production starter, where its at, and when its stops. I think the first two are actually covered in the TROs to one degree or another, but when production stops isn't.

Moonsword

  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14610
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Repost: Vehicle of the Week: Alacorn
« Reply #75 on: 24 May 2011, 21:18:12 »
Partially that's because "when production stopped" is very frequently after the point the TRO's set (or published in a lot of cases, including TRO3058U).  Production stoppages are noted sometimes.  Examples that come to mind off the top of my head include the Cestus, the Rapier, the Coyotl, and the Shootist (in which TRO3058U notes when production stopped but helpfully doesn't mention when it started back up against despite being set after the TRO3067 text was).