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Author Topic: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles  (Read 732 times)

Tangoforone

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Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« on: 21 March 2019, 12:30:23 »
Do amphibious tracked or wheeled vehicles exist in BT?  Specifically up to the 3070's era?  I have heard there are rules for underwater movement equipment for mechs and infantry, but that isn't necessarily what I am looking for. 

If they do, do they offer a significant difference to hovercraft tactically?

Following serious questions, here is a silly one that I just had thinking about underwater movement and mechs.  There are mechs designed for underwater combat.  Some of these mechs mount torpedoes in place of missiles.  If this mech was in a land battle, naturally if the torpedo was launched I assume it would just fall on the ground since it requires a dense medium (water) to travel.  Would it detonate on the ground or is there a minimum arming distance?  Follow up to this, if it does detonate on the ground, what would the consensus be to using it as an anti-infantry weapon if they are swarming in the same hex as the mech? 

I like to imagine such ridiculousness in my mind sometimes and can just picture a massive torpedo being launched from a mech's torso just for it to fall on a squad of infantry and detonating. I never read the underwater rules so I don't know the exact mechanics Battletech assumes.

Sartris

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #1 on: 21 March 2019, 12:37:55 »
They do exist. They are relatively rare because the limited and full amphibious chassis mods are advanced equipment and so weren’t used much

Here’s a medium apc I envisioned as a generic amphibious ifv post 3067

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63289.0

Colt Ward

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #2 on: 21 March 2019, 13:22:03 »
You also have the Prowler . . . which was a Star League era design and suffered under the tech loss, but not as I read it losing its amphib capability.  In fact, the (Sealed) variant traded off the amphib equipment to work in hostile environments . . . and it was built in 2960.  We also have the (Support) which was built in 2818, keeping the same infantry bay size unlike the SW refit but increases the LRM size using the extra tons from the removal of Pulse and BAP tech from the design.
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worktroll

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #3 on: 21 March 2019, 13:58:01 »
The MUL has you covered - all entries with property AMP (for Amphibious)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=AMP&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=

The problem is the rules seem to have been fairly late in the piece, so - excepting the Prowler - most canon amphibs date from the Jihad era or later (which technically does fit late 3070s timeline). But don't forget hovers are by definition "amphibious", and there's lots of them.

But I doubt anyone would complain too much about an amphibious APC on the table.
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Sartris

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #4 on: 21 March 2019, 14:21:58 »
I’d have to go back and look at the specifics but iirc there was a single amphibious option in MaxTech that verbatim matched what is now limited amphibious.

So like most other L3 tech it existed between ‘97 and ‘08 without really being used in canon

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #5 on: 21 March 2019, 14:28:51 »
But don't forget hovers are by definition "amphibious", and there's lots of them.

And honestly, hovers are best for amphib operations if the planetary conditions matter.  Those troops are the most vulnerable when their transports are crossing the waters from where their mothership (like a amphib carrier, hello Iwo Jima!) and the beach . . . put-put'ing through the water is slower and less able to dodge than almost any other form of tactical troop carrier.  Hover APCs/IFVs/ISVs overcome that problem with raw speed and being able to redirect faster b/c the medium is air rather than water.

Didn't the MD counterattack across the English Channel against ComGuard landings in Normandy use hovers rather than amphibs?  Took the ComGuard formations in the flank since they were using the body of water to secure that front?
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Sartris

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #6 on: 21 March 2019, 14:47:42 »
BT amphibious is for fording rivers that might otherwise block tracked or wheeled vees

If you’ve got a lake, hovers are your go to... unless you’ve got a few hundred turns to burn

worktroll

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #7 on: 21 March 2019, 14:54:09 »
(must see if my friendly 3D printer can do me a platoon of LVTs ...)
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Weirdo

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #8 on: 21 March 2019, 16:58:14 »
To answer your other question:

For simplicity's sake, torpedo racks do not fire at all outside the water. Even if it did, the torpedoes would follow the same precedent as dumped ammo - once on the ground, it simply sits there and does nothing, not even boom. Sorry, no dry land use for your tubes.
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Tangoforone

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #9 on: 22 March 2019, 10:38:49 »
Fair enough in regards to the torpedo nonsense.  I assumed as much, just trying to get other peoples thoughts.  My mind wanders at work and I enjoy thinking about silliness in Battletech, like using Napalm as the fluid medium for sprayer trucks or firing FASCAM artillery as a direct fire weapon; picture that, just a hoard of mines launched at a locust like a shotgun :)  I assume none of this is lore friendly, but I imagine there are probably some wackjobs in the BTU that would try it in a dire situation.

And crossing rivers or fjords was my intention with the amphibious tracked/wheeled vehicles as well, especially if a bridge goes out.  Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't tracked vehicles stronger with the motive hits table?  Then wheeled, and hover is last? 

In any case, thanks for the help everyone.  Not sure if it will ever come up in a game, but I appreciate the support.

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #10 on: 22 March 2019, 11:40:30 »
My mind wanders at work and I enjoy thinking about silliness in Battletech, like using Napalm as the fluid medium for sprayer trucks or firing FASCAM artillery as a direct fire weapon; picture that, just a hoard of mines launched at a locust like a shotgun :)

Both of those are rules legal. The first can be rather effective(it's treated as a single Inferno hit), while the second wouldn't do much to the Locust at all, unless he also fell before leaving the hex. :)

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't tracked vehicles stronger with the motive hits table?  Then wheeled, and hover is last?

That's the gist of it, yes.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #11 on: 22 March 2019, 12:29:51 »
Yeah . . . but honestly, trying to force a crossing on a river using tracked/wheeled vehicles with amphib equipment in the face of any defense is asking for wrecked vehicles.  Its IMO more of a strategic benefit so that a defender cannot just wreck bridges to slow or separate mech from armor in a enemy advance.  For instance, the Rommel (Sealed) into a river crossing (useless SRT4) its going be moving 1 hex a turn or so . . . and a BIG easy target- especially since the sealing can be breached.  Its better for the hovers to cross to engage while the amphib/sealed offer fire support from the other side.

Weirdo, FASCAM would cover 7 hexes . . .
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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #12 on: 22 March 2019, 14:18:53 »
Nope. All FASCAM artillery rounds are Radius 0. You might be thinking of FASCAM Bombs, those are R1.
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CVB

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #13 on: 23 March 2019, 10:41:11 »
But don't forget hovers are by definition "amphibious", and there's lots of them.

In addition, there are WIGEs, offering the bonus of being able to drop from low orbit, so they can be inserted over large bodies of water.
Worse Suspension Factors than hovers, but can be built up to 80 tons (or 240 tons for Support Vehicles)

Kovax

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #14 on: 25 March 2019, 10:49:56 »
Amphibious vehicles have the advantage of not being hittable targets while underwater, unless the enemy goes into the water after them.  Basically, a hover generally has the speed and maneuverability to avoid most of the incoming fire, but anything that does hit has a depressingly high chance of immobilizing the vehicle, which will then sink, along with its crew and passengers.  Using the hovers as a distraction right before contact, until the amphibious vehicles can clear the water and disgorge their passengers, might work.  Loading up one or two amphibious vehicles with torpedoes might be a nasty surprise if the defenders DO decide to go into the water.  Picture an amphibious SRM Carrier with torpedoes, and the ensuing armor breaches.  OUCH!!!

As pointed out, hovers have the worst motive crit table, followed by wheeled, with tracked vehicles suffering the least (but STILL highly vulnerable to an SRM rack or LBX cannon).

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #15 on: 26 March 2019, 16:30:58 »
Amphibious vehicles float on the water's surface.

Sealed vehicles are the ones that can drive along the bottom.

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Wolf72

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #16 on: 26 March 2019, 19:15:26 »
Amphibious vehicles float on the water's surface.

Sealed vehicles are the ones that can drive along the bottom.

can still fire torpedoes at subsurface targets, yes?
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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #17 on: 26 March 2019, 20:32:36 »
IIRC, Torpedoes can only be launched if the location the launcher is mounted in is submerged.

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Weirdo

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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #18 on: 27 March 2019, 00:09:03 »
can still fire torpedoes at subsurface targets, yes?

Yes. As long as the unit in question is on the water's surface(or lower), you're fine. For example, the Plainsman(Sealed) can fire its SRT just fine even though the launcher is by no means submerged, because physics aside, hovers are considered on the water's surface. It's the same principle by which real-world surface ships fire torpedoes from tubes that are often way up on the ship's deck.
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"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
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Re: Amphibious Tracked or Wheeled Vehicles
« Reply #19 on: 27 March 2019, 01:21:41 »
Prowler is one of my favorite "Non-Standard" tech units.

Such a great little tank for hostile environments & exploration.
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