Grasshopper - Great mech, or leaping Lemon?

[Black_Knyght]

In our ongoing campaign game I just ended up with a stock Grasshopper, and have the option of trading it off or upgrading it.

My question is - Is the Grasshopper worth it as a Skirmisher, or is does it not live up to it's hype?

[Pooman]

Great mech. Though the 3050 upgrade was disappointing. IMO one of the better 3025 mechs. What's not to like? Good mobility, armour, weapon load out.

[Frabby]

Great duelling 'Mech but sub-par line unit.
It can overcome almost any single opponent thanks to its mobility and armor but lacks the punch to make a difference in larger, fluid battles.

[Hellraiser]

Hands down, One of the finest combat mechs in TRO3025.

Unless your opponent is a Banshee-3S on pancake terrain, the GrassHopper-5H will close and kill, anything & everything I've ever faced with it.

Some mechs can put out longer range damage or even more damage but few do it EVERY TURN & have no minimum ranges & also solid mobility for its size.

I've been using it successfully w/o fail since 1997.

Look at it this way, its a slightly slower, but BIGGER & MEANER,  Wolverine-M.    Nuff said.

[Frabby]

I've said this in a similar discussion already (before the forum reboot I think) and I'll repeat it here:
A single Grasshopper will win against a single Warhammer. But a lance of Warhammers will mop the floor with a lance of Grasshoppers.

[marauder648]

Definately a keeper, high mobility, next to no ammo concerns, LOADS of heatsinks, what's not to like? Definately a superb unit in a 3025 setting. The 3050 refit kind of ruined it.

[Hellraiser]

I've said this in a similar discussion already (before the forum reboot I think) and I'll repeat it here:
A single Grasshopper will win against a single Warhammer. But a lance of Warhammers will mop the floor with a lance of Grasshoppers.

6D's on flat terrain, I'd agree, Maybe.

I'd take that bet when it comes to the low armored & heavy ammo'd 6R's in a regular map w/ some blocking hills/trees.

[Nightsong]

I am a big fan of the -5N myself. Flashbulb from hell. PPC and a nice bank of heat sinks with a good cooling system to back them up. Of course, the issue I have with the original variant is my mehness for LRM-5s. 10s are tolerable but I prefer 15+.

[Greatclub]

Look at it compared to it's rival contemporaries from TRO 3025: the thunderbolt, marauder, warhammer, orion and maybe battlemaster.

It's the only jumper. Everything else has either more or more vulnerable ammo bombs. Only the battlemaster can sustain as much short-range firepower without minimum ranges. In 3025, only the Awesome is more irritating to kill, IMHO. It's THE classic zombie mech. The short range of the medium lasers that make up most of its weapons limits how much a grasshopper can do. But it can hold its head high in 3025. It's not optimized, the LRM5 shouldn't be there, but it's pretty close for an 80's mech.

I won't deny it's the worst ranged fighter of the bunch.

It doesn't fare so well in TRO 3039 thanks to the presence of the guillotine and flashman sharing its niche, but even there it is comparable. The Flashman has weapons in the wrong spots to be a zombie and no jets, and downgraded guillotine isn't as tough.

The first round of tech upgrades aren't kind to the grasshopper in the 3050s. It isn't until the mid 3060s that you get the -6k and -7k, and the 'hopper again becomes a mech to be feared respected.

[DaveMac]

Keep it but don't bother loading the LRM ammo ;-)

[Charlie Tango]

I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a stock 3025 design I'd rather have for campaign play, in all honesty.

Even if you keep it stock, it's highly durable all around.  Its one ammo weapon has a lot of ammunition so in an extended campaign it helps with logistics in not having to reload as often. It is very heat-friendly for its era. Yes,  it lacks a bit at range, but for the mid-range and knife-fights that a lot of fights evolve into, it is very well positioned. And with the extra mobility of jump, it has a significant advantage over most anything its size on anything other than the proverbial pool table.

If you are looking at an era-appropriate upgrade, the 5N where the Large Laser and missile system are swapped out for a PPC and another Medium Laser is a good one (even better if you have some flexibility to do a PPC and a heat sink instead...)

I would say definitely keep it.

[rebs]

Between the mobility of jump jets and the battlefield longevity of mostly energy weapons, it's a highly underrated battlemech.  The name makes it sound like it should be a light 'mech, but don't be fooled.  The Grasshopper is for keeps.

[marauder648]

The Grasshopper and Flashman 3025 are both amazing machines.

[Iron Grenadier]

Just another vote to keep. Plenty of reasons already given.

[jshdncn]

Most variants are that perfect combination of too tough to take down quickly and too much of a threat to ignore. You put them in front of your fire support and they have the mobility to play bodyguard.

[The_Livewire]

Aesthetically, I like the looks of the Guillotine better.  But the stock Grasshopper is a beast.  Little to no ammo dependency, enough armor to last a while, and hands to make it an ideal heavy raider. Plus the PPC variant is so much better than that Guillotine's PPC variant.

[Moonsword]

In our ongoing campaign game I just ended up with a stock Grasshopper, and have the option of trading it off or upgrading it.

My question is - Is the Grasshopper worth it as a Skirmisher, or is does it not live up to it's hype?

Keep it.  The firepower is underwhelming on paper but being able to keep doing that, round after round, or mix in the jump jets, and the toughness to absorb fire on top of that?  It's way too useful to trade away.  If you've got access to them, alternative loads may be more useful than stock LRMs, too, such as smoke or thunder LRMs.  Toecutter minefields don't affect 'Mechs that much but they're hell on vehicles because of the motive hits.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

I love it to death. I have four and I have four Guillotines to go with them (essentially it's short range brother)... sorry stock models.

It's got jump jets and speed to be slightly mobile for a heavy. It's go the short range guns that are ammo-independent and a long range harassment weapon. You can use the LRM for alternate ammo (Thunders!). It's got heavy armor coupled with a standard engine and gyro for zombieness.

In the 3025-3050 (pre-Clan) era take it as your skirmished for sure. Upgrades don't fare well IMO, but a logical upgrade with ER's and DHS (sorta like the 6K) combined with a bigger XL could be devastating for the later ages (for custom builds).

The thing has never let me down and has always annoyed my enemies (especially combined with the Awesome for Fire Support).

[ArchonDan]

I've always enjoyed using the Grasshopper. It's been well stated in the above posts all its advantages, the mobility, fire power and armor are a great mix for the tonnage. It can successfully keep the pressure on when needed.

[Colt Ward]

In 3025-3055 its a keeper, especially in a campaign when you can upgrade it rather than using the 3050 variants.  Getting into the Jihad it gets dicey IMO just because of the amount of work vs time available to get it up to the period's std.  In 3050s you can deal with still using SHS since other IS designs still have them, and of course the 3025 version is better against IS opponents than against Clan.

But giving it ERs as available and converting to DHS when you get the time makes it competitive going into the future.

[SteelRaven]

It's a surprisingly tough zombie and urban fighter.

The single missile launcher in the head is sort of useless but the array of lasers gives it decent close range punch. Jump in, pew-pew-pew-pew, jump out.     

[JadeHellbringer]

To echo others, the 3025-era Grasshopper is just a beast. It's one of the finest heavy Mechs of its era and worth every C-bill it costs you. It's mobile, has a nasty bite, no ammo concerns for its main weaponry (so it can operate away from supply lines for long periods), has hands in case you need them, and is surprisingly tough to kill.

However... the 3050 'upgrade' was a criminal act against a previously-dominant machine, and while later Grasshoppers were definitely better than that lemon the line has never really recovered its role on the battlefield. Part of it is that its uniqueness is gone- in its day, it was one of only a small handful of jumping heavies, and today it's easy to find such machines. It's not particularly fast in-general either- 4/6/4 is fine for 3025 play, but by the end of the Clan invasion fast heavies at 5/8 were becoming increasingly common. It's not hard to find 5/8/5 even, such as the Thanatos or the excellent Falconer. Grasshoppers tend to not use things like XL engines and such, and while that makes them tougher to kill it also means they pale against newer machines that use those tricks.

That's not to say a Grasshopper in the Jihad era or beyond is a waste of time, naturally. In fact, with the drawdown of Mech armies post-Jihad, the Grasshopper regains some swagger! On battlefields where a Mech may be a fairly rare sight, particularly a large one, the mobile and unpredictable Grasshopper becomes what it used to be again- the centerpiece of a mobile army, lashing out again and again with laser fire and a handful of missiles while leaping between cover positions. Simple upgrades to the 3025 model can make it quite happy in a 3145 army (a 3050 GHR is best stripped and totally refitted), and the newer versions with the torso-mounted cockpit and head-mounted electronics suites are even handier on battlefields full of infantry and the like.

Short version, Grasshoppers are absolutely dominant in pre-Clan and post-Jihad battlefields, struggle in the periods in-between, and are almost always worth keeping on-hand if you end up with one in your possession- they're great fun in most roles.

[Sartris]

The 6K from 3064 is really the peak of the toe to toe smash-face attitude the original had.  The 7K is an excellent close range skirmisher.

[Kovax]

In our ongoing campaign game I just ended up with a stock Grasshopper, and have the option of trading it off or upgrading it.

My question is - Is the Grasshopper worth it as a Skirmisher, or is does it not live up to it's hype?

As a skirmisher, it's not very good.  As a cavalry or line 'Mech, it definitely lives up to the hype: one step short of an energy zombie that just won't go down under heavy fire.  Use cover and its broken-terrain mobility to bring it into close proximity to the enemy, where its 4xMLs and LL will dominate an engagement as an in-fighter, not as ranged firepower with just an LRM-5 and LL.  The PPC version, in my opinion, is a better balanced design, but if I'm taking a GHR in the first place, I'm not looking for "balanced", I want something that can slug it out point-blank, and the standard model delivers that.

I've seen GHRs run out in the open by players without much experience, and they usually took a massive beating before they even got into effective range, but STILL did a fair amount of damage once they got close, before they finally went down.  Those that were moved through cover and then used up close and personal were just frightening.  If you want ranged firepower on a wide-open map, use a Warhammer, Awesome, Marauder, or Archer instead.  If you want a "skirmisher", choose a Griffon or other 5/8 or 6/9 option.  If you want to get right up into someone's face and erase it, a Grasshopper or quite similar Guillotine can be a pretty good tool for the task.

[House Davie Merc]

3025 era- keep it !

Upgrade it to the 5N if you can .
( The PPC variant )
Other 3025 heavies just don't have the same combo of maneuverability ,
firepower , heat sinks , armor , and crit padding .

[Fat Guy]

Keep it but don't bother loading the LRM ammo ;-)

 :stupid:

[Matti]

Look at it compared to it's rival contemporaries from TRO 3025: the thunderbolt, marauder, warhammer, orion and maybe battlemaster.

It's the only jumper. Everything else has either more or more vulnerable ammo bombs.

TDR-5SE

[Hellraiser]

While its a GREAT mech, the SE is limited availability as an ELH design & the 2 tons of CT Located LRMs is just asking to blow sky high if your not already dead from Engine/Gyro hits.

The Hopper has 1 very buried ton of ammo surrounded by lots of SHS.

[DOC_Agren]

I vote for keeping it 3025 model can jump and go

[Wrangler]

Totally agree with everyone. Grasshopper in the Pre-Clan Era and then Pre-Jihad era and beyond its a ride worth its weight in C-bills. I'm using one in campaign on Solaris,  where its kicking butt and taking names each match.