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Author Topic: the Lauterbach-Emden, MBT of the 31st Century  (Read 669 times)

Hptm. Streiger

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the Lauterbach-Emden, MBT of the 31st Century
« on: 05 June 2019, 12:20:18 »
I was again in blender and drawing the chassis and turret for a new vehicle. scanning through the stats of a heavy tank that is the hallmark of a scary mech killer - I realized that some of the ammunition and variants were not sound.
I mean look at those variants and compare it with the original - and its obvious that the only reaction can be: WHAT?

Anyhow I just changed some things and suddenly i got this guy, althugh it will need some time for complemention.... mainly because I need an idea how the thing reload stuff and were to place the crew.



and here are the stats:
Code: [Select]
Emden

Mass: 75 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Introductory
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-E-D-A
Production Year: 2750
Cost: 3.329.375 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1.103

Power Plant:  225 VOX Fusion Engine
Cruise Speed: 32,4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 54,0 km/h
Armor:  4/ Star Slab
Armament:
    1  Ceres Arms Model T Autocannon/10
    1  Cyclops Eye Large Laser
    2  Holly SRM-6s
    2  LongFire LRM-5s
    4  Sperry Browning Machine Guns
Manufacturer: HartfordCo Industries
    Primary Factory:
Communications System: O/P 300
Targeting and Tracking System: O/P GRNDSTAT 50A

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      40 points                7,50
Engine:             Fusion Engine                225                      15,00
    Cruise MP:  3
    Flank MP:   5
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0,00
Control Equipment:                                                         4,00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0,00
Turret:                                                                    2,50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 176                 11,00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     41       
                                          Left/Right   30/30       
                                              Turret     45       
                                                Rear     30       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 LRM-5s                                     FR        4         2         4,00
Machine Gun                                  LS        0         1         0,50
Machine Gun                                  RS        0         1         0,50
Autocannon/10                                T         3         1        12,00
Large Laser                                  T         8         1         5,00
2 SRM-6s                                     T         8         2         6,00
2 Machine Guns                               T         0         2         1,00
@SRM-6 (30)                                  BD        -         0         2,00
@AC/10 (20)                                  BD        -         0         2,00
@LRM-5 (24)                                  BD        -         0         1,00
@MG (200)                                    BD        -         0         1,00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      6    Points: 11
3t         5       4       1       0      3     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: TUR(4/4/0, AC 1/1/0, SRM 2/2/0), AC 1/1/0, SRM 2/2/0, IF 1


a possible variant  could drop the missiles for a bigger engine - and upgrade the Laser into a PPC. drop 2 machine guns and have 30 rounds.
   

or this version as 2.2 with Gauss, ERPPC and C3i and an expensive XL surrounded by Heavy Ferro Fibrous
« Last Edit: 05 June 2019, 15:52:00 by Hptm. Streiger »

tomaddamz

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Re: the Lauterbach-Emden, MBT of the 31st Century
« Reply #1 on: 06 June 2019, 10:18:29 »
My thoughts, Drop the MGs for the AC-10 ammo ( prepare for specialty ammo, Flechette or precision ), use the ammo for the MGs for specialty missile ammo ( Inferno, Thunder LRM,) ...let you imagination run amok
Saying that because the equipment isn't up-to-the-minute, bleeding-edge tech therefore not a threat is like saying an M2 Browning isn't dangerous to modern infantry because it is 100 years old.

Hptm. Streiger

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Re: the Lauterbach-Emden, MBT of the 31st Century
« Reply #2 on: 06 June 2019, 11:12:29 »
My thoughts, Drop the MGs for the AC-10 ammo ( prepare for specialty ammo, Flechette or precision ), use the ammo for the MGs for specialty missile ammo ( Inferno, Thunder LRM,) ...let you imagination run amok
good idea, the ac with flechette is effective enough against infantry.
 about the missiles - if its a later design the obvious nummer uno missile weapons of a tank is the mml

Cannonshop

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Re: the Lauterbach-Emden, MBT of the 31st Century
« Reply #3 on: 08 July 2019, 22:57:37 »
big issue I see, is the ground speed.  You've got lots of armor, and lots of guns, and can't get into a good firing position to park.  remember you're paying double to go up or down hill, and into woods.  this means if you have to fire in the same turn you're positioning, you're having to fire at a flank (most likely), and if you're in terrain that works with 3/5 heavy vehicles, yo're going to be immobilized out of position pretty quick for low to no damage to the enemy (expanded vehicle tables in Total Warfare).

3/5 is a very bad ground speed for fighting anything that isn't an Urbanmech with a damaged main gun.  *(yes, I know, the Devs LOVE 3/5, doesn't make it a good or useful ground speed, just makes it common.)  any track under 80 tons should be moving 4/6 at minimum, so you can cruise and fire with equal or better numbers on your offense and defense modifier ( thus not having to flank to climb a L1 hill or enter a woods hex, while still being able to return fire.)

I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!

Hptm. Streiger

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Re: the Lauterbach-Emden, MBT of the 31st Century
« Reply #4 on: 09 July 2019, 03:44:51 »
I think you are absolutely correct, as a MBT Style tank faster would be of greater value, then some additional firepower.
Sacrificing some armor and three machine guns and reducing the missiles to a single SRM4 will allow a 4/5 movement.
Code: [Select]
Emden EM1
================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      40 points                7,50
Engine:             Fusion Engine                300                      28,50
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0,00
Control Equipment:                                                         4,00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0,00
Turret:                                                                    2,00
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 160                 10,00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     40       
                                          Left/Right   32/32       
                                              Turret     36       
                                                Rear     20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autocannon/10                                T         3         1        12,00
Large Laser                                  T         8         1         5,00
Machine Gun                                  T         0         1         0,50
SRM-4                                        T         3         1         2,00
@AC/10 (20)                                  BD        -         0         2,00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              BD        -         0         0,50
@SRM-4 (25)                                  BD        -         0         1,00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 9
4t         3       3       0       0      3     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: TUR(3/3/0, AC 1/1/0), AC 1/1/0

A mobile shreck sounds like a plan too - and would be possible on base of the frame
Code: [Select]
Emden EM3
================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      40 points                7,50
Engine:             Fusion Engine                300                      28,50
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             20                       10,00
Control Equipment:                                                         4,00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0,00
Turret:                                                                    1,50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 152                  9,50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     37       
                                          Left/Right   30/30       
                                              Turret     30       
                                                Rear     25       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 PPCs                                       T         20        2        14,00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 9
4t         2       2       2       0      3     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: ENE, TUR(2/2/2)

or a larger Bulldog?
Code: [Select]
Emden EM1
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      40 points                7,50
Engine:             Fusion Engine                300                      28,50
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             16                        6,00
Control Equipment:                                                         4,00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0,00
Turret:                                                                    1,50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 160                 10,00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     40       
                                          Left/Right   32/32       
                                              Turret     36       
                                                Rear     20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Large Lasers                               T         16        2        10,00
Machine Gun                                  T         0         1         0,50
2 SRM-4s                                     T         6         2         4,00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              BD        -         0         0,50
@SRM-4 (50)                                  BD        -         0         2,00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 9
4t         3       3       0       0      3     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: TUR(3/3/0, SRM 1/1/0), SRM 1/1/0


marauder648

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Re: the Lauterbach-Emden, MBT of the 31st Century
« Reply #5 on: 09 July 2019, 07:27:51 »
Magnificent! Really nice design and the arts superb :)
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Retry

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Re: the Lauterbach-Emden, MBT of the 31st Century
« Reply #6 on: 09 July 2019, 12:16:02 »
big issue I see, is the ground speed.  You've got lots of armor, and lots of guns, and can't get into a good firing position to park.  remember you're paying double to go up or down hill, and into woods.  this means if you have to fire in the same turn you're positioning, you're having to fire at a flank (most likely), and if you're in terrain that works with 3/5 heavy vehicles, yo're going to be immobilized out of position pretty quick for low to no damage to the enemy (expanded vehicle tables in Total Warfare).

3/5 is a very bad ground speed for fighting anything that isn't an Urbanmech with a damaged main gun.  *(yes, I know, the Devs LOVE 3/5, doesn't make it a good or useful ground speed, just makes it common.)  any track under 80 tons should be moving 4/6 at minimum, so you can cruise and fire with equal or better numbers on your offense and defense modifier ( thus not having to flank to climb a L1 hill or enter a woods hex, while still being able to return fire.)
Not with a SFE.  If you want a 4/6 SFE tank, you may as well go 70 tons instead of 75 tons, as you'd actually gain a spare half-ton.  And compared to a 65-ton tank, you'd only lose a half-ton going for going 10 tons lighter.

I usually find 4/6 a bit of a wash for tracked vehicles, between all the motive crits they're easily going to sustain early to knock them to 3/5 or worse (usually worse), assuming they're not knocked out by a lucky TAC first.

I agree 3/5 is not useful, bare-minimum if that, but if you want a truly mobile platform and you pick a heavy tracked vehicle, you're doing it wrong.

Cannonshop

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Re: the Lauterbach-Emden, MBT of the 31st Century
« Reply #7 on: 09 July 2019, 22:56:54 »
Not with a SFE.  If you want a 4/6 SFE tank, you may as well go 70 tons instead of 75 tons, as you'd actually gain a spare half-ton.  And compared to a 65-ton tank, you'd only lose a half-ton going for going 10 tons lighter.

I usually find 4/6 a bit of a wash for tracked vehicles, between all the motive crits they're easily going to sustain early to knock them to 3/5 or worse (usually worse), assuming they're not knocked out by a lucky TAC first.

I agree 3/5 is not useful, bare-minimum if that, but if you want a truly mobile platform and you pick a heavy tracked vehicle, you're doing it wrong.

Generally if you want "Truly mobile" you grab a battlemech, or a VTOL, or a Hovercraft.

I'm talking "enough movement to be marginally useful"-which is 4/6 for a track, 5/8 for wheeled, or 6/9 for Hover based on terrain penalties and the idea that you might actually want to get at least one good shot in before you're disabled against an equivalent opponent (i.e. an opponent that can administer at least one ten-point hit at ten hexes or more.)

a vehicle STARTING at 3/5 might as well be a fixed installation, (in which case you can save a lot of money by just building turrets and trenches).  this is because it's highly unlikely to actually REACH a good position before the good positions are already bypassed or overrun unless you start it there.

ymmv and I built up my own 'doctrine' back in the days when I was the weird kid who took conventionals instead of 'mechs up against 'mech players-before Total Warfare added the extra die-rolling and adopted Maxtech's ideas.

but it still fits.  outside of "Exterminate everything on the map" scenarios, positioning is important-being able to get your firepower INTO a good position is still more valuable, more often, than the raw amount of that firepower-iow an alacorn that can't get line-of-sight on target is worthless, even if it's otherwise (Aside from motive hits) pristine in all its armored glory.

Firepower is still important, mind you, but a shot you can't take, or that will miss, is worth zero damage, while a smaller, lesser shot that you CAN take, and MAY hit, is valuable, because it does damage, while the missed shot does not.

The problem with 3/5 is that more often than not, you will miss more shots going out, than your opponent will, and the only way to counter that is to simply put the vehicle in park and don't move-in which case, you don't have a lot of need for a fusion engine, or any engine.

in essence, 0/1, 2/3, and 3/5 are identical options to 0/0 movement.  in all cases you need to START in a good position and stay there.

4/6 is the BEGINNING of "Okay, I have options to play aggressively or manuever my forces in a flexible defense."  It's not "Optimum", it's "basic."

the major shift with Total Warfare, was to make slow vehicles viable-by placing a heavy emphasis on motive hits-but that viability is limited to "Start in a good parked position."  They're still not viable for flexible tactics or on the offensive, because they will end up stranded with a locked turret more quickly, with less effort and less chance to actually administer that higher damage.  They translate from "Marginal asset" to "Liability" very quickly.  4/6 is the slowest your tracked tank below 80 tons should be going, because it's the slowest speed at which your tracked vehicle is of any use as anything but a fixed installation.
I beats the Urbie to death with my CHARGER!!!