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Author Topic: A Time of War 2nd edition?  (Read 15562 times)

RifleMech

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #210 on: 10 October 2019, 17:00:37 »
That could be true. But you've got to admit going from crossbow to gatling gun leaves a ginormous technolocal gap.

Paul

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #211 on: 10 October 2019, 18:01:56 »
Theres another gap between a sword and a stone axe. Maybe ATOW should NOT be a simulation. Maybe at some point, something is irrelevant.

monbvol

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #212 on: 10 October 2019, 18:25:54 »
*nod*

If you're looking to re-enact the Napoleonic Wars, the 100 Years War, or any other ancient historical battle that AToW and Battletech were never designed to let you re-enact maybe another system is in order.

And just to nip a potential counter argument in the bud there is zero indication that the tech loss on any world anywhere actually got bad enough that they had to re-invent flint lock muskets or any of the other items supposedly missing from AToW.  Even the most backwater podunk planet seems to more than able to make any number of weapons and armors that'd make such things undeniably insane to try and re-introduce.

RifleMech

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #213 on: 11 October 2019, 01:57:41 »
Theres another gap between a sword and a stone axe. Maybe ATOW should NOT be a simulation. Maybe at some point, something is irrelevant.


I think Club (Club/Improvised) could work for stone axe. I also never said AToW should be a simulation. And why shouldn't black powder weapons be irrelevant when we've got swords and arrows?



*nod*

If you're looking to re-enact the Napoleonic Wars, the 100 Years War, or any other ancient historical battle that AToW and Battletech were never designed to let you re-enact maybe another system is in order.

Who said anything about re-enacting some ancient war? And why is it every time ancient weapons are mentioned the replies go straight to AToW and BT were never designed for re-enact those battles. Use another system? Also does anyone realize how odd being told that is considering the wide variety of infantry platoons we can create with the wide variety of ancient weapons and armor AToW and BT have now?  ???

Quote
And just to nip a potential counter argument in the bud there is zero indication that the tech loss on any world anywhere actually got bad enough that they had to re-invent flint lock muskets or any of the other items supposedly missing from AToW.  Even the most backwater podunk planet seems to more than able to make any number of weapons and armors that'd make such things undeniably insane to try and re-introduce.

Why does the use of flint lock muskets and other missing weapons have to indicate a technological decline? There's all kinds of reasons for them to exist. Tech decline is just one of them.

And just for fun the muzzle loading black powder rifle doesn't have to be "ancient". It could be one of those new battery powered versions. Although I suppose "modern" BT versions would use power packs instead of 9 volt batteries.

monbvol

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #214 on: 11 October 2019, 02:39:30 »

I think Club (Club/Improvised) could work for stone axe. I also never said AToW should be a simulation. And why shouldn't black powder weapons be irrelevant when we've got swords and arrows?



Who said anything about re-enacting some ancient war? And why is it every time ancient weapons are mentioned the replies go straight to AToW and BT were never designed for re-enact those battles. Use another system? Also does anyone realize how odd being told that is considering the wide variety of infantry platoons we can create with the wide variety of ancient weapons and armor AToW and BT have now?  ???

Why does the use of flint lock muskets and other missing weapons have to indicate a technological decline? There's all kinds of reasons for them to exist. Tech decline is just one of them.

And just for fun the muzzle loading black powder rifle doesn't have to be "ancient". It could be one of those new battery powered versions. Although I suppose "modern" BT versions would use power packs instead of 9 volt batteries.

Battletech has never been a full simulation that covers all possibilities and asking it to do so is frankly a disservice and the only reason to include them is because you want to re-enact those past conflicts.

There is zero reason to include any of those weapons when you can still make an Autorifle with less effort than it would take to re-learn how to make all those missing weapons.  It'd be utter stupidity and insanity for anyone to even consider trying to resurrect such ideas let alone implement them.

fever_Dream.)

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #215 on: 11 October 2019, 02:42:11 »
Battletech has never been a full simulation that covers all possibilities and asking it to do so is frankly a disservice and the only reason to include them is because you want to re-enact those past conflicts.

There is zero reason to include any of those weapons when you can still make an Autorifle with less effort than it would take to re-learn how to make all those missing weapons.  It'd be utter stupidity and insanity for anyone to even consider trying to resurrect such ideas let alone implement them.
I feel ninja'ed on this.  I was going to post something along the lines of, "Even the most backwards of bandit kingdoms have a space program."

RifleMech

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #216 on: 11 October 2019, 06:09:52 »
Battletech has never been a full simulation that covers all possibilities and asking it to do so is frankly a disservice and the only reason to include them is because you want to re-enact those past conflicts.


Here we go again. Straight to being a simulation to re-enact past conflicts. When did I ever say I wanted to do that?  ???


Quote
There is zero reason to include any of those weapons when you can still make an Autorifle with less effort than it would take to re-learn how to make all those missing weapons.  It'd be utter stupidity and insanity for anyone to even consider trying to resurrect such ideas let alone implement them.

And yet we have Bows and Arrows, Ancient Knight's Plate Armor, Gatling Guns, and "Vintage" Assault Rifles. It makes perfect sense to re-learn to make all these "Vintage" and "Ancient" weapons and armor but making Black Powder Weaponry is stupidity and insanity?  ???

Paul

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #217 on: 11 October 2019, 06:26:54 »
Yes.

Can we move on to other subjects?

victor_shaw

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #218 on: 11 October 2019, 07:35:07 »
Yes.

Can we move on to other subjects?

Right the point was to give examples of what if Ideas you have to fix or improve AToW.

Paul

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #219 on: 11 October 2019, 10:42:04 »
Agreed, and debating their worthiness or lack thereof is really a distraction. Ultimately the project dev and line dev have to decide.

BiggRigg42

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #220 on: 06 November 2019, 21:57:39 »
Wow, I just sped read through every post on every page of this thread--like, wow man...just wow.

BiggRigg42

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #221 on: 06 November 2019, 23:28:28 »
... I'm talking about large weapons doing damage to squishy unarmored meatbags.  Fired against a vehicular unit or BA, large weapons do damage per TW rules, but fired against infantry, anything with an AI tag or mounted to a Battlearmor has individual AP/BD values, but these are lacking for everything not in TW/TM/BMM

What are the AP/BD values of a ER Small Pulse Laser mounted to a mech and what values if a battlearmor is carrying one (stuff like Small Pulse lasers have different values for the mech and BA versions)?  What about a BA mounted ER Medium Pulse Laser (the mech mounted one just multiplies the damage, but BA stuff has actual values), or a BA specific item like the BA LB-X AC.

I think the answers to these questions are located on page 211 of AToW under "Vehicular Weapons vs. Non-Battle Armor Infantry." There, it states that, "...any attack by vehicular weapons that directly hits a character will inflict damage with an AP of 10 and a BD equal to 6 times the weapon's Total Warfare damage value. For example, the Inner Sphere medium laser--with its Total Warfare value of 5--would inflict damage with the following AP/BD ratings in A Time of War: 10E/30."

As for Battle Armor mounted weapons, their values are located on the BATTLE ARMOR WEAPONS TABLE on page 215 of AToW. The ER Medium Pulse Laser's stats are 6E/7B.
« Last Edit: 06 November 2019, 23:30:11 by BiggRigg42 »

Daryk

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #222 on: 06 November 2019, 23:45:08 »
I've cited that rule twice so far... hopefully your citation will stick...

BiggRigg42

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #223 on: 07 November 2019, 00:50:37 »
I've cited that rule twice so far... hopefully your citation will stick...

Apparently, I don't speed read very well.

Daryk

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Re: A Time of War 2nd edition?
« Reply #224 on: 07 November 2019, 05:20:30 »
You speed read just fine... they're easy to miss in the back and forth.