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Author Topic: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?  (Read 538 times)

Kitsune413

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I feel like it would feel more battle-techy. Part of BattleTech is that really granular combat and I feel like Alpha Strike Misses out on that.

So I made this sheet, keep in mind that the bubbles were supposed to represent something with max armor. (though I don't know that the original Atlas had max armor. This was a mockup.)

The damage values might need to be increased slightly to keep the pace of the game up.

It would slow play slightly, because you'd add a hit location roll. But, you'd still only be making one attack roll and the heat is simplified.

I like the idea of damage being in 3 point groups, so that you can't just blow somethings head off, without a special ability from weapons that do that kind of damage. So a Clan ER PPC, or an AC-20 would be able to land that 4th point of damage onto the head of a mech.

Let me know what you guys think. I think it would make it feel a lot more like BattleTech.
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Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #1 on: 25 June 2019, 13:38:40 »
I'm not a fan, but whatever floats your boat.

I prefer to think of Alpha Strike's basic game unit is a lance, rather than a single mech.  Where a mech in CBT can lose an arm, a Lance in AS can lose a mech.  Going further down into the weeds seems as unnecessary as doubling the armor and IS locations in CBT.  "Why is the entire leg one section? Getting shot in the thigh shouldn't affect the shin..."

The_Caveman

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #2 on: 25 June 2019, 13:51:05 »
I thought AS was just BattleTech without hit locations O_o.
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

Sartris

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #3 on: 25 June 2019, 13:52:19 »
I prefer to think of Alpha Strike's basic game unit is a lance, rather than a single mech.  Where a mech in CBT can lose an arm, a Lance in AS can lose a mech.  Going further down into the weeds seems as unnecessary as doubling the armor and IS locations in CBT.  "Why is the entire leg one section? Getting shot in the thigh shouldn't affect the shin..."

That checks out as AS’s grandad Battleforce 2 (and the updated BF) plays like that with the entire lance in one conjoined formation. Losing an element definitely had the feel of losing a limb.

I’ve been of the opinion for a long time that hit locations and cluster table rolls are some of the prime speedbumps of the classic rules (though it’s evident to me through a million discussions that there isn’t a good substitute to either without completely shredding the rules so I concede that they are a necessity)

Where AS loses me is the flattened weapon ranges. I principally play the game as a skirmish with no more than 6-8 units on a side so those precious envelopes where you can exploit range and position are the chief draw of the system for me.

A halfway between AS and BT should probably be a complete tear down with no sacred rules cows in order to avoid making concessions that end up merely papering over issues or  something worse than what you started with.

Kitsune413

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #4 on: 25 June 2019, 15:46:51 »
Honestly, I was just thinking of something inbetween. Something that still feels like BattleTech, but is faster.

This would be slightly more granular and retain the feel of BattleTech.

Alpha Strike was supposed to be a fast paced version of BattleTech. But it just feels like Battleforce to me. I liked Battleforce a lot.

But I think a big part of the feel of BattleTech is mechs walking around with limbs blown off. So this retains that more.
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Colt Ward

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #5 on: 25 June 2019, 16:02:40 »
So you are wanting to turn regular mechs into damage being tracked like Protos?
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Mattlov

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #6 on: 25 June 2019, 18:52:26 »
I'll pass.  I accept that they are different games, and they have a different feel.  This will slow down AS, which is completely against the point of the game when it was created.  If I want hit locations, I'll play regular Battletech.

Keep them separate.
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mmmpi

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #7 on: 25 June 2019, 22:51:43 »
I'd more interested with an alpha strike that had independent weapon ranges, rather then the gestalt S/M/L. 

Something like Medium Laser: Range 6"/12"/18" damage: 1 die (1 damage on a 4+)

Or make it flat one damage (1 damage per five in the main game), but double the number of armor/structure for each unit.

Hptm. Streiger

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #8 on: 26 June 2019, 06:15:32 »
A good idea, like it.

I don't think it increases the time played by any means - sure mechs become a little bit more durable but that's it. You would need some additional weapon stats - for cluster weapons - that sandblast the armor over several locations.

What usually bogs games down is the positioning and bracketing (good thing this was removed)
the other thing was the calculation for different bracketing and finally the rolls for each weapon.
Hitboxes is  only an issue when you fired a cluster weapon, and those do not exist in this version

mmmpi

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #9 on: 26 June 2019, 07:55:16 »
It does make heat a bit more complicated, though you could do a simplified heat scale, that dove tails with the overheat bar that already exists in AS.

It would also change how some of the keyword special rules would pop up.

Two Guns Blazing

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #10 on: 26 June 2019, 18:33:56 »
I don't dislike the idea of having hit locations with greater armour for Alpha Strike, but if you are going to do that, you'd then have to include rules for losing body parts, and where weapons are located on the Mech so that if an arm is destroyed and blown off you know if it will affect your attack strength, and then you'd have to include rules for how much strength your attack loses and what Specials you will lose (IF for instance) and if your heat stats will be affected...and at that stage, it is probably more like giving CBT less detail rather than giving AS more detail.

I'm happy with how AS plays right now.

Fear Factory

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #11 on: 29 June 2019, 12:04:44 »
I dunno... I did something that expands a bit on the quick start rules by adding a heat scale and crit system that works like Alpha Strike. It's slightly slower than the beginner box, and prepares the player for both systems. I respect that BattleTech hasn't changed much, but at the same time, it's still hard to get people into the game because it's unique.

Kitsune413

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #12 on: 08 July 2019, 15:51:41 »
I don't dislike the idea of having hit locations with greater armour for Alpha Strike, but if you are going to do that, you'd then have to include rules for losing body parts, and where weapons are located on the Mech so that if an arm is destroyed and blown off you know if it will affect your attack strength, and then you'd have to include rules for how much strength your attack loses and what Specials you will lose (IF for instance) and if your heat stats will be affected...and at that stage, it is probably more like giving CBT less detail rather than giving AS more detail.

I'm happy with how AS plays right now.

Could just be like crits though. Losing an arm lowers damage value. Losing a torso side location lowers damage value. Losing a leg lowers MP.

One leg? 1 mp. Two legs. Destroyed.

Also, assuming that you base the games damage values off of the head armor and structure values being divided by 3 - (and the 3 divisor works well for armor/structure amounts)

Then weapons calculations would be weapon damage / 3. So a large laser would do 3 points of damage.

Weapons would hit in clusters of 3. Unless you had a weapon that does 15 points of damage. then you get the headcapper special ability and you can hit in groups of 4.

Going to redo the armor model to actually accurate reflect max armor/structure values.

But I feel like it feels way more like BattleTech and is still way faster, while not feeling like Battleforce.

I feel like the current rules are great for Battleforce.

But I think Alpha Strike should be a step between those two things.
« Last Edit: 08 July 2019, 15:56:56 by Kitsune413 »
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Scotty

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #13 on: 08 July 2019, 17:17:20 »
Why not just cut every number on a normal record sheet by three instead?  Alpha Strike is BattleForce rebranded; it's not trying to bridge a gap between itself and Total Warfare (and I personally disagree that it should).
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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #14 on: 09 July 2019, 22:20:52 »
I think using variable damage is enough. You can do some tweaks to that, like I (and others) have to make Alpha Strike feel more like BattleTech. It's in my sig. I've played the game for well over a year and I'm glad it's different.

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Re: How would everyone feel about Alpha Strike with Hit Locations?
« Reply #15 on: 09 July 2019, 23:11:18 »
I'll pass.  I accept that they are different games, and they have a different feel.  This will slow down AS, which is completely against the point of the game when it was created.  If I want hit locations, I'll play regular Battletech.

Keep them separate.

I'm with Mattlov on this one.
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