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Author Topic: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense  (Read 5224 times)

Daryk

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #30 on: 21 July 2019, 15:04:17 »
Heh... followed by, "Oh, you have reflective armor?"  >:D

Empyrus

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #31 on: 21 July 2019, 15:13:26 »
Weirdly, Reactive armor is perhaps even better option for fast units. They've probably got little enough armor the reactive chain reaction removing all armor isn't a big deal (especially if placed in legs and arms and floating crits aren't in play), but the defense against AOE weapons that can ignore high TMMs by targeting hexes is extremely useful.

Reflective is perhaps most useful against Clans with their superb energy weapons, limited to nonexistent use of melee combat, and limited use of AOE weapons.
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Brakiel

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #32 on: 21 July 2019, 16:47:57 »
“Your huge TMM is very impressive. Direct fire Long Tom needs 8s”

I admittedly don't use artillery much, but IIRC it's typically fired indirectly at a hex, correct? So a faster unit will have a wider potential movement area for it to be in for any given turn. I wouldn't claim it'd be invulerable to artillery, whether intentionally hit or just subject to random scattering. But it seems they'd be safer than artillery dialing in on a one legged Atlas, which is all I meant to say.

Sartris

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #33 on: 21 July 2019, 16:57:06 »
Artillery in direct fire mode within 17 hexes is fired like a regular weapon

Scotty

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #34 on: 21 July 2019, 17:07:42 »
Artillery in direct fire mode within 17 hexes is fired like a regular weapon

Which is why you don't hunt artillery with Reflective Armor.  Against artillery at any other range Reflective is fine especially on fast units.
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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #35 on: 21 July 2019, 17:38:34 »
I had multiple hidden units once with Long Tom cannons. Sometimes artillery hunts you

Greatclub

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #36 on: 21 July 2019, 17:39:19 »
I had multiple hidden units once with Long Tom cannons. Sometimes artillery hunts you

Thanks for the idea.

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #37 on: 22 July 2019, 16:38:24 »
Lol, I had a guy cussing a blue streak in MM once b/c he tried to rush my Bowman . . . with something that was also 5/8, want to say it was a Mad Dog.  I went to meet him, the indirect fired A4 from the turn before hit the hex behind him while I had moved up to within 17 hexes . . . and the direct A4 hit his hex.  Then the LRMs went in.
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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #38 on: 22 July 2019, 17:30:50 »
I was running the Arrow IV variant of the Thunder Hawk in a game in a con when I noticed that the enemy had 5 Purifier squads crammed into three adjacent hexes, about 16 hexes from me.

And suddenly the enemy had no more battle armor.

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Firesprocket

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #39 on: 23 July 2019, 02:20:27 »
Special armors' largest issue is, IMO, their considerable BV cost. Think i was trying some idea out, swapping standard plate to reflective boosted BV nearly 20% (though SSW's BV calcs may be somewhat outdated). Considering that the armor types have their weaknesses, the BV costs feel too high.
As far as mechs and aerospace fighters go, there is very little out there that doesn't carry a laser as armaments.  The fact that lasers are the most common weapons in the game that may receive a bonus to hit makes LR armor's additional cost seem right.  It works against lasers, PPCs, and the damage and from plasma weapons and heat effects by all weapons and halving the net effects of them.  The negative effects of the armor are more or less under the control of the player with the armor.  20% cost boost seems right for something that is going to halve all these effects from nearly half of the available weapons of the game.

grimlock1

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #40 on: 23 July 2019, 10:52:10 »
I had multiple hidden units once with Long Tom cannons. Sometimes artillery hunts you
There is something not right with you....

As far as mechs and aerospace fighters go, there is very little out there that doesn't carry a laser as armaments.  The fact that lasers are the most common weapons in the game that may receive a bonus to hit makes LR armor's additional cost seem right.  It works against lasers, PPCs, and the damage and from plasma weapons and heat effects by all weapons and halving the net effects of them.  The negative effects of the armor are more or less under the control of the player with the armor.  20% cost boost seems right for something that is going to halve all these effects from nearly half of the available weapons of the game.

While not reflective, I played a game where the other player had a lot of PPCs.  The aim was to teach him to use speed and distance to stay alive against my big, slow, short range monsters. But I also had a Quasimodo.  I was nailing the Blue Shield checks and that 50% nerf to ER PPCs was driving him nuts.  Against his LPPCs and snubbies at range, it was even better.  Oh, HATED that Quasi...
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Colt Ward

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #41 on: 23 July 2019, 11:20:10 »
Lol, I used the Scapha with the pair of MVSPL . . . on a big wide open map against someone who had a pair of Timberwolf Bs (to fit with BV), and when he finally got a LPL hit against that Supercharge'd speedster . . . only to find it had reflec armor that shrugged off the hit.
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Kit deSummersville

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #42 on: 23 July 2019, 11:46:24 »
It also has ammo in its legs so if it blows a MASC check there's a chance it will put itself out of its misery.

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Kovax

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #43 on: 23 July 2019, 11:59:59 »
One shot jump jets for free!
Is the jump distance increased if it leaves some of its original tonnage behind, like the legs?

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #44 on: 23 July 2019, 13:49:11 »
One shot jump jets for free!

I didn't list the mech last time given that it's a purposefully bad mech.

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snewsom2997

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #45 on: 23 July 2019, 13:53:23 »
Without going through 50 pages of previous thread. What about the Road Runner? Goes so fast it will destroy itself in a fall.


MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #47 on: 23 July 2019, 13:59:57 »
Without going through 50 pages of previous thread. What about the Road Runner? Goes so fast it will destroy itself in a fall.

Anything that causes it to fall likely means that it's going to die anyway.

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Empyrus

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #48 on: 23 July 2019, 14:33:31 »
The Roadrunner is only bad for 'Mech combat. Or, bad for combat at all. Reasonable scout and possibly a raider, and it should not be doing anything else.

Ultralights aren't very good idea in general but as cheap recon platforms they are passable.

The Prey Seeker is perhaps more questionable, since the RELs it carriers kinda imply it is meant to be backstabbing reflec/hardened 'Mechs. If anything, it should be carrying an active probe, TAG, and maybe ECM and focus purely on scouting tasks.
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #49 on: 23 July 2019, 14:52:54 »
The Roadrunner is only bad for 'Mech combat. Or, bad for combat at all. Reasonable scout and possibly a raider, and it should not be doing anything else.

Ultralights aren't very good idea in general but as cheap recon platforms they are passable.

The Prey Seeker is perhaps more questionable, since the RELs it carriers kinda imply it is meant to be backstabbing reflec/hardened 'Mechs. If anything, it should be carrying an active probe, TAG, and maybe ECM and focus purely on scouting tasks.

I think it was brought up before but a lot of machines translate badly in game terms where in the actual universe they make sense. A scout on a three by three map is okay but will eventually run out of space. When an invading Cluster has the entire world to assault a bunch of scouts running kilometers ahead on the flanks is an excellent screen when they can disengage at more than twice the enemy’s speed. When the main battle comes slashing attacks will divert attention from the main force.

Kit deSummersville

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #50 on: 23 July 2019, 14:57:41 »
I didn't list the mech last time given that it's a purposefully bad mech.

In the hands of a MegaMek bot, for sure :flame:. Give it to your typical player and it will suck as they'll never activate the TSM. Give it to someone creative and aggressive...well, I've really surprised a few people who scoffed at it on the table.
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mbear

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #51 on: 24 July 2019, 07:18:32 »
One shot jump jets for free!

A-pods gone horribly wrong?

Sharpnel

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #52 on: 24 July 2019, 07:24:23 »
Also, turkina
and the Nightstar mini as well with those wide spread arms
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grimlock1

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #53 on: 24 July 2019, 10:50:42 »
In the hands of a MegaMek bot, for sure :flame:. Give it to your typical player and it will suck as they'll never activate the TSM. Give it to someone creative and aggressive...well, I've really surprised a few people who scoffed at it on the table.
Are we still talking Targe?
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

grimlock1

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #54 on: 24 July 2019, 11:11:52 »
The Roadrunner is only bad for 'Mech combat. Or, bad for combat at all. Reasonable scout and possibly a raider, and it should not be doing anything else.

Ultralights aren't very good idea in general but as cheap recon platforms they are passable.

The Prey Seeker is perhaps more questionable, since the RELs it carriers kinda imply it is meant to be backstabbing reflec/hardened 'Mechs. If anything, it should be carrying an active probe, TAG, and maybe ECM and focus purely on scouting tasks.

The idea of those small, blindingly fast recon mechs that can "walk" almost a mapsheet each turn starts to break down once FASAnomics kick in.  Most of them are XXL machines, so cheap goes right out the window. :-(
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Kit deSummersville

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #55 on: 24 July 2019, 12:25:03 »
Are we still talking Targe?

Yup, the 2N.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #56 on: 24 July 2019, 12:58:55 »
The idea of those small, blindingly fast recon mechs that can "walk" almost a mapsheet each turn starts to break down once FASAnomics kick in.  Most of them are XXL machines, so cheap goes right out the window. :-(

But C-Bill cost has rarely been a limiting factor in the setting.  And the Roadrunner is available to factions who really don't care that much.

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Empyrus

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #57 on: 24 July 2019, 13:32:01 »
XXL engines are perfectly fine by the Dark Age unless one limits oneself to FASAnomic prices (in which case you get idiocy like X-pulses being more expensive than better Clan-tech, or even just XL engines being too costly really). I'm more inclined to use Warchest for costs if i need costs.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #58 on: 24 July 2019, 13:50:25 »
Warchest is a decidedly better system for gameplay purposes.

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SCC

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Re: Even more mech design decisions that make no sense
« Reply #59 on: 25 July 2019, 05:53:26 »
But C-Bill cost has rarely been a limiting factor in the setting.  And the Roadrunner is available to factions who really don't care that much.
And also don't build vehicles, so there's an explanation for why they don't use a Savannah Master clone instead.

And don't RL militries use jeeps/SUV's for this sort of stuff?

 

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