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Author Topic: So the celestial series... how to and why?  (Read 8872 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #120 on: 05 September 2019, 11:52:27 »
Well, remember they get more than just Purfiers and the Demon series . . .

So you can have the pick of FWL BA and have plausible reasons for most anything else- like Grenadiers (hey, the Blakists stole some of them sometime somewhere).

You want to be nasty . . .

Blakists throw out a blocking force- are they retreating or hooking the mechs around your flanks?  who knows?- into some hills/woods that cut down the sight lines to 6 or 7 hexes on average and 9 hexes at most.  BA is going to chew up anyone pursuing them into such terrain- especially with hidden units.

Put some of the assault or heavy suits as bait . . . and then spring stuff like the Se'rim/Phalanx A & B/Longinus from hidden positions that put their weapons & SRMs in short range from where a mech would try to snipe at the assault/heavy suit's long range.  Then rush some Trinity BA from where the bait was . . . if you threw in some foot infantry with heavy weapons- maybe field guns you can have a low-BV force that will give mechwarriors nightmares.  Especially since you can load Infernos in any SRM racks as long as you do not mind the risk.

Depending on the timeframe (3069 not so much, mid 3070s yes) you could also trot out a 'experimental' BA as a tweak.  Regulus put the Ogre into production in 3091, but its not really revolutionary so you could fluff it as a experimental model that was being tested.

I would suggest you also use it as a test of BA for you . . .

Bait-
Kanazuchi (Drac assault)
Tengu Support
Nephilim or Nephilim Support
Phalanx A
Phalanx B
infantry

Flankers/Rush
GDL Standard (LRR)
Asura
IS Std- LRR or SL
Asterion (MRR)
Theseus (RL/MRR)

Hidden units
Asura
Phalanx A
Longinus
Se'rim
Grenadier HK

Basically position them like a fire-sack and eat the mechs up.
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Church14

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #121 on: 06 September 2019, 10:15:25 »
For now I put an order in to IWM to get a few figures each of all the Demon Series BA and some Purifier Adaptives. I grabbed a PDF of RS3075 so I have official BA record sheets.

I won’t go after the complete list Colt put down for a while. At the pace I play I’ll need a few months to try each a few times and test their limits.

So it’s finding good mixes of Celestials, Demons, The Bolla, WoB Infantry (Tau and XCT), and mechs that I can proxy from RATs for WOB during the 3070s.

JadeHellbringer

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #122 on: 06 September 2019, 10:25:41 »
Not a bad start, for sure! I'd also suggest a few more conventional-feeling units to flesh things out- frequent Blakist units include the Nexus, Raijin, Grand Crusader (though the mini isn't great, honestly), Legacy (a must-have), Buccaneer, and Gurkha. Anything used regularly by Comstar prior to the schism would work too (so, essentially anything in Comstar's arsenal outside the Viking and Beowulf. Comstar kind of stopped caring post-'58, it seems). In that regard, the old TRO:2750 becomes almost a shopping list.

Really, you could even sneak a Clan unit or two in as salvaged units if you so desired- a Thor or something like that, but don't go overboard on it. The salvage from the Dragoons on Outreach had to go somewhere, after all. That would also include Dragoon-regular designs like the Imp, Falcon, and Zhukov, if you want to go that route.

And, of course, there's no reason you can't flesh things out with units from other realms too- by '70, the Blakists had been running the show on a few heavily-industrialized worlds for a while, so they were likely reaping the benefits of places like Hesperus or Irian for all they were worth. Think of it less as a 'would my unit have access to this unit?', and more 'what story can I create for HOW my unit got their hands on it in the first place?'- doing that, you can have some real fun. That Kodiak? Yeah, we raided the Bears last fall and it got crazy- but after the MD infantry pulled the local Star Captain out of her Mech (literally), all it needed was a coat of fresh white paint... well, that and the cockpit hosed out. Those two Heavy LRM Carriers? The Taurians never knew what hit them when we hit their rear areas during their counterattacks- these were our prize afterwards.

Keep it reasonable- you might have trouble explaining a Blood Kite or a Von Rohrs- but sometimes the stories you create to back up a unit's creation end up really helping to forge them from a collection of record sheets and painted metal into something truly meaningful.

...Oh, and get a couple of SRM Carriers. Then look up the Blakist model with the Streak SRM racks. You'll thank me later.
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Tangoforone

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #123 on: 06 September 2019, 10:46:54 »
I would also pick up a Toyama.  It is a solid mech, and has some excellent variants.  As said above, the Legacy is also a good WoB mech.  What I would really recommend though, and this is personal preference, the WoB uses a very mean variant of the Thug; 2x ER PPCs, 2x SRM-6, lots of armor, double heat sinks, and C3i. 


Colt Ward

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #124 on: 06 September 2019, 11:00:08 »
For now I put an order in to IWM to get a few figures each of all the Demon Series BA and some Purifier Adaptives. I grabbed a PDF of RS3075 so I have official BA record sheets.

I won’t go after the complete list Colt put down for a while. At the pace I play I’ll need a few months to try each a few times and test their limits.

So it’s finding good mixes of Celestials, Demons, The Bolla, WoB Infantry (Tau and XCT), and mechs that I can proxy from RATs for WOB during the 3070s.

Well, you can proxy anything . . . just have to clearly mark the BA stand and your sheet.  I was suggesting the spread so you could see how they played and evaluate them to find what you liked.  Another good source, if you can find one you like, is old MWDA BA figures.  I already had a ton of IWM Elementals but MWDA BA let me get a wide assortment to represent nearly any faction- lol, except Blakists outside of Purifiers.  The Purifiers are one of the few Blakist designs that did not disappear at the end of the Jihad.  You do get some weird size combos, but some of that comes down to preferences- I think the Cavaliers are spot on but some are smaller in scale while others are larger.  It will be interesting to see where the new plastic Elementals fit with IWM & MWDA BA.
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Weirdo

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #125 on: 06 September 2019, 11:02:49 »
Despite it not being on the WoB MUL, the Comstar Battle Cobra looks like a great way to fit another Omni into a Level II, and it makes prefect sense that the Blakists would have salvaged more than a few. :)
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #126 on: 06 September 2019, 13:00:08 »
I would also pick up a Toyama.  It is a solid mech, and has some excellent variants.  As said above, the Legacy is also a good WoB mech.  What I would really recommend though, and this is personal preference, the WoB uses a very mean variant of the Thug; 2x ER PPCs, 2x SRM-6, lots of armor, double heat sinks, and C3i.

Gah, I did forget the Toyama- the miniature is kind of static, but has good detail on it. Good call. (I still need to finish the modded 52nd SD Toyama on my workbench sometime- it got a weapon effect added to the autocannon, and the standard shoulder pauldrons were replaced by the ones from a Karhu, then painted gold)

That Thug is a nasty beast too, good call. Good mini too- I recommend the resculpt if you pick a Thug up though. The original was well-detailed, but had a weird pose.

Oh- anything FWL? That's good for Blakist forces too, they leaned heavily on Marik's industrial power while rebuilding post-schism (and absorbed several regiments into the WoBM when the Jihad began), so units like the Awesome, Orion, Ontos, etc. are very handy. If it ever was painted purple, it can easily be  justified as being painted white.  ^-^
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But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."

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Greatclub

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #127 on: 06 September 2019, 13:15:55 »
Initiate. It's too light to carry much armor, but it is a nice toolbox mech with a better variant

JadeHellbringer

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #128 on: 06 September 2019, 13:19:55 »
Initiate. It's too light to carry much armor, but it is a nice toolbox mech with a better variant

I forgot all about that one- had to actually go look it up to remember which one it was. Kind of like an in-fighting Panther, or a WoB answer to the Urbanmech. It's kind of fun, in a funky 'what in the hell is going on here' kind of way, but I sure wouldn't go out of my way to add them to an army other than maybe as LZ guards or something like that.

Miniature was weird too, had kind of a strange sideways lurch if I remember right. (Or maybe that was just mine?)
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."

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Greatclub

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #129 on: 06 September 2019, 13:37:45 »
I admit my primary use for it is to mulch infantry.

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #130 on: 06 September 2019, 13:41:44 »
I admit my primary use for it is to mulch infantry.

Reasonable, though the Malak Invictus is always a good choice for that job instead if you have one.

...or just turning loose some MD infantry and letting them go have their day in the sun. "Be back by supper, wash your claws after you dismember those battle armor troopers!"
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."

+Crow T. Robot+

Weirdo

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #131 on: 06 September 2019, 13:50:57 »
To me, the Initiate(and to a lesser extent the Blue Flame) are great units to use when you just need to pad a Blakist OPFOR out with some mooks. Your heroes can easily take them down, but you can never ignore them, and they're annoying as hell when acting as the underlings accompanying a mid-boss.

Also, a Level II of 3-4 Initiates with the rest being vees or infantry is a good force to deploy when your PCs are having a particularly hard time and you need to rebuild their morale(and pool of salvage).
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Church14

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #132 on: 06 September 2019, 14:11:27 »
Yeah. The Initiate is comical amounts of infantry murder.

I had forgotten the Toyama existed. I like that design a lot. The thug has been on my radar for a while and I like what I see. I will buy both of those.

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #133 on: 06 September 2019, 16:04:07 »
During the late jihad, wob have access to anything that Hesperus, including berserkers, fafnir, their custom fafnir, battlehawks, and Steiner varients of common mechs

Church14

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #134 on: 06 September 2019, 22:01:50 »
Whelp, I need to go buy a Toyama. Proxied one (the C3i variant) tonight. The earlier variants look good too.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #135 on: 06 September 2019, 22:37:58 »
The Toyota is a solid Blakist mech.  I've been on both ends of it multiple times and it's always acquitted itself well.
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Colt Ward

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #136 on: 06 September 2019, 22:45:55 »
When it comes out, the Toyama is one of those mechs that prove the upper end of Apollo's Law . . . it is so well put together, about the only way you can make it better is to throw in Clan weapons- btw, to make it tougher for your players put 2 cERLL in place of the IS ones.  They will hate.
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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #137 on: 07 September 2019, 11:47:37 »
The Toyota is a solid Blakist mech.  I've been on both ends of it multiple times and it's always acquitted itself well.

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Church14

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #138 on: 07 September 2019, 12:39:47 »
When it comes out, the Toyama is one of those mechs that prove the upper end of Apollo's Law . . . it is so well put together, about the only way you can make it better is to throw in Clan weapons- btw, to make it tougher for your players put 2 cERLL in place of the IS ones.  They will hate.

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Church14

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #139 on: 07 September 2019, 13:05:49 »
The more I look at it, the more it feels like the Toyama is what the Orion was intended to be.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #140 on: 07 September 2019, 13:45:02 »
"sarge, i think it's a late model tundra."
"call in the A4 spotters right now!"



I've been calling that mech the Toyota since TRO 3060 came out.
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mrbooth

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #141 on: 11 September 2019, 20:21:55 »
Side note, wasn't there a book that had what all the variants looked like?

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #142 on: 11 September 2019, 20:57:23 »
Side note, wasn't there a book that had what all the variants looked like?

Not that I'm aware of.  JHS:3072 had artwork for the first two configurations of each.  I haven't seen artwork for the other configurations.
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Church14

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #143 on: 12 September 2019, 07:04:31 »
Hm. A minor rules question as I tried out VSPL with C3. For weapons with changing stats as range increases (hGauss, Snub PPC, VSPL): even though C3 makes it shorter ranged, I use to-hit mods and damage profile of the actual range?

So firing a VSP at long range, even though C3 made it a “short range” shot, I still use the lowest damage and the -1 to hit?

Maelwys

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #144 on: 12 September 2019, 07:26:03 »
Total Warfare spells it out on page 131.

"Variable Damage Weapons: The range, to determine the Damage Value of a Variable Damage Weapon, is always determined from the attacking  unit to the target."

I'd assume the variable to-hit modifier follows the same rule, though it isn't spelled out specifically.

Sartris

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #145 on: 12 September 2019, 07:30:37 »
Vspls will act just like a snub ppc or heavy gauss rifle with C3

You can always ask on the TO rules board if you want the officialest answer


Tangoforone

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #146 on: 12 September 2019, 09:09:19 »
My understanding is that the range at which the weapon fires would determine the damage of the weapon.  If your target is 10 hexes out and that is medium range for the weapon, it is still medium range for the weapon.  You are just getting the target bonuses for short range if someone is granting that to you.

Just like if you are 22 hexes away, your AC2 won't be able to reach the enemy just because your C3i ally is 1 hex away from them because the AC2 is still out of effective range.

Colt Ward

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #147 on: 12 September 2019, 10:10:50 »
I think I understand his question though . . . the Variables are said to get -1 at long range, -2 at mid, and -3 at short as a function of how the weapon operates . . . so a firing unit gets +0 as the range modifier but just like damage is linked to the distance between firing unit and target, a Variable Speed Pulse Laser's TH mod should be linked to that distance since its a function of damage.

afaik, its the ONLY weapon like that . . . only thing I could really come up with is a LRM equipped C3/C3i mech that has the range SPA where they can swap band modifiers and the target is in minimum range even if a spotter gives them the 'ideal' range b/c the swap.  The weapon does not care the spotter is in the ideal spot, it has a limitation of that minimum range to function properly.
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Tangoforone

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #148 on: 12 September 2019, 12:32:57 »
I did not know the VSPL gave a modifier to affect 'to-hit' based on range (I figured it was a base distance similar to the standard PL, but shows what I know).

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