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Author Topic: So the celestial series... how to and why?  (Read 8844 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #210 on: 24 September 2019, 14:37:15 »
But at that point it would have the pod space of an average medium omni.
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Colt Ward

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #211 on: 24 September 2019, 14:44:04 »
So I played with this some on MM . . . dropped the 6 Opacus into the middle of a 6x6 map and put them against a random regular battalion that was positioned around the edges . . . I will have to try again (BV was 2-1 in favor of the regulars) since the weird 'everything hits 1 location' started happening to Berith . . . barely scratched Archangel, gets LT blown through.

I did realize the Opacus were not even that great of pilots except Berith- so maybe a Shadow Division Level II of line veterans might work better than a spec ops team.
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Church14

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #212 on: 24 September 2019, 17:26:12 »
Does MM have a way to implement bVDNI? It’s been quite some time since I played it

Greatclub

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #213 on: 24 September 2019, 17:41:39 »
Surprised this thread hasn't brought up paralells between the WOB and society techbases, and the VS debate between the two.

A society splinter group was in JF space for a while, it's a conceivable matchup, as is WOB support for the dark caste sending a special operations force into clan space.

Does MM have a way to implement bVDNI? It’s been quite some time since I played it

Yeah, but it still uses the point mod from the jihad books, not IO, so it overprices them.
« Last Edit: 24 September 2019, 18:26:22 by Greatclub »

Colt Ward

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #214 on: 24 September 2019, 20:45:48 »
Really?  The latest set I looked at kept referencing IO to tell me what stuff does.
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Maelwys

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #215 on: 24 September 2019, 20:48:00 »
Surprised this thread hasn't brought up paralells between the WOB and society techbases, and the VS debate between the two.

A society splinter group was in JF space for a while, it's a conceivable matchup, as is WOB support for the dark caste sending a special operations force into clan space.

Part of the problem is that while the WoB and the Society go for the tech angle, the Society still wants the Clans to exist, just with them in charge, while the WoB despised the Clans.

Greatclub

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #216 on: 24 September 2019, 21:19:16 »
Dark caste wasn't a single organization. The society could be sponsoring one group, the WOBbies the other, and both fighting over the right to sponsor the competant third.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #217 on: 24 September 2019, 23:24:18 »
Given that Comstar had seeded infiltrators among the Clans prior to the schism, it's theoretically possible that the Word did make contact with the Society at one point, but their mutually exclusive goals mean that extensive cooperation between the two wouldn't have worked out well.
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dgorsman

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #218 on: 25 September 2019, 00:36:14 »
They would each be too busy trying to co-opt the other...
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #219 on: 25 September 2019, 01:07:07 »
Yeah, and the Word probably has a substantial edge up in that regard.
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Wrangler

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #220 on: 25 September 2019, 08:50:33 »
Yeah, and the Word probably has a substantial edge up in that regard.
I would think it would depends on how mean the GM was running the scenario or if the group is even in a rare Battletech RPG group.  I would think the WoB would have at least 1 edge, unless it's important character/pilot.
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grimlock1

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #221 on: 25 September 2019, 14:01:41 »

Yeah, and the Word probably has a substantial edge up in that regard.
I would think it would depends on how mean the GM was running the scenario or if the group is even in a rare Battletech RPG group.  I would think the WoB would have at least 1 edge, unless it's important character/pilot.
Okay one of you is talking about the rules for Edge and other is talking colloquially, and I'm reasonably sure which is which. 
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Wrangler

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #222 on: 25 September 2019, 14:56:38 »
Where was this hint of a possible variant omni/clone of Archangel.  With all the changes the franchise gone though with new developers, is there really plausable evidence they add odd variants/new old stuff to it?  ArchAngel was shushed into razor blades because the bad memories it supposedly triggered when it was fielded.

From what i've read in source books, those mechs were arguably rare machines.
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Church14

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #223 on: 25 September 2019, 15:42:02 »
Where was this hint of a possible variant omni/clone of Archangel.  With all the changes the franchise gone though with new developers, is there really plausable evidence they add odd variants/new old stuff to it?  ArchAngel was shushed into razor blades because the bad memories it supposedly triggered when it was fielded.

From what i've read in source books, those mechs were arguably rare machines.

The celestial mechs?

Per the Jihad - Blake Documents or whatever it’s called and using the RATs.
Malak is 8/36 light mechs for shadow divisions
Preta is 11/36 medium mechs
Deva is 5/36 heavies
Grigori is 11/36 heavies
Seraph is 10/36 assaults
Archangel is 2/36 assaults
From what I can tell, actual composition of forces was less heterogenous than the RATs. RATs downplay the most common designs to encourage varied forces.

So there we’re probably more Malaks, Preta, Grigori, and Seraphs then is hinted at in the RATs. That means Shadow divisions were probably closing in on %50% celestial designs.

Sartris

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #224 on: 25 September 2019, 15:59:57 »
[zombie droning]
RATs are not to be interpreted as an accurate portrayal of in-universe force composition
[/zombie droning]


Wrangler

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #225 on: 25 September 2019, 16:05:48 »
I would think it would depends on how mean the GM was running the scenario or if the group is even in a rare Battletech RPG group.  I would think the WoB would have at least 1 edge, unless it's important character/pilot.

Okay one of you is talking about the rules for Edge and other is talking colloquially, and I'm reasonably sure which is which.
Sorry it's my bad.  I mis-read the "Edge" thing.  :-X
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Church14

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #226 on: 25 September 2019, 16:09:01 »
[zombie droning]
RATs are not to be interpreted as an accurate portrayal of in-universe force composition
[/zombie droning]
Which is why I pointed out that they tend to have more variety than actual force compositions. So you assume that the mechs that are most common in the RATs are actually even more common than that

Sartris

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #227 on: 25 September 2019, 16:12:13 »
you can't make that assumption. they may be more or less common - their RAT frequency has no bearing on their commonness. sometimes very common units won't even appear on faction RATs

Colt Ward

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #228 on: 25 September 2019, 16:16:19 »
TPTB statements on the RATs are a pretty paradox . . .

Wrangler, my comments about a updated & slightly different looking Archangel was remarking how it would be interesting if the Republic had Celestial updates after the Fortress walls finally came down.  Stone kept the Blakist database, to include blueprint/design info for the Celestials and I think Demons series- the new Blakist ComGuards stole information and built their two mechs that the Republic co-opted based on Blakist design information.  My main point was the public association should have diminished since its been that long . . . for example, afaik no one gets upset over symbols associated with WWI.
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Wrangler

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #229 on: 25 September 2019, 16:16:54 »
One thing i don't think i like these days, is CGL does not like saying how designs have how much scarcity except if it's Extinct or Yet-to-Be Introduced. 

Celestials were meant for the most elite MechWarriors of the WoB, with very few (like the light ones, like Malak) being in the regular Militias.  That does bother me. (shrugs)
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Sartris

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #230 on: 25 September 2019, 16:17:40 »
TPTB statements on the RATs are a pretty paradox . . .

it only requires you to acknowledge that flavorful and representative are two discrete concepts

Colt Ward

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #231 on: 25 September 2019, 16:19:30 »
Except, Wrangler that IIRC, non-small cockpit Celestials and 'frail' adapted Demon series were used in the defense of Terra . . . even if we saw no RS for those.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #232 on: 25 September 2019, 16:28:58 »
I would think it would depends on how mean the GM was running the scenario or if the group is even in a rare Battletech RPG group.  I would think the WoB would have at least 1 edge, unless it's important character/pilot.

I mean that when it comes to espionage and double-crossing people, the Society has been playing in the kiddie pool while the Word has been swimming the English Channel during hurricanes.
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Sir Chaos

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #233 on: 25 September 2019, 16:53:45 »
I mean that when it comes to espionage and double-crossing people, the Society has been playing in the kiddie pool while the Word has been swimming the English Channel during hurricanes.

That´s because the Word has 200+ years´ worth of institutional history of espionage, counter-espionage, sabotage, betrayal and whatnot... whereas the Society are a bunch of (extremely amoral) nerds who only made it thus far because the jocks considered it beneath themselves to pay attention to what the nerds were doing.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #234 on: 25 September 2019, 17:40:37 »
Exactly.  Which is why I wouldn't expect the Society to do very well against the Word.
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Greatclub

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #235 on: 25 September 2019, 17:56:38 »
So I played with this some on MM . . . dropped the 6 Opacus into the middle of a 6x6 map and put them against a random regular battalion that was positioned around the edges . . . I will have to try again (BV was 2-1 in favor of the regulars) since the weird 'everything hits 1 location' started happening to Berith . . . barely scratched Archangel, gets LT blown through.

I did realize the Opacus were not even that great of pilots except Berith- so maybe a Shadow Division Level II of line veterans might work better than a spec ops team.

Did you use their special rules, including the 'always set up hidden' on the seraph?
« Last Edit: 25 September 2019, 18:18:08 by Greatclub »

Colt Ward

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #236 on: 25 September 2019, 20:39:49 »
No, I do not have the book so I did not have their exact set up . . . but got pretty close by the BV.
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Weirdo

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #237 on: 25 September 2019, 23:37:45 »
One thing i don't think i like these days, is CGL does not like saying how designs have how much scarcity except if it's Extinct or Yet-to-Be Introduced.

I will always be eternally grateful for every day that they don't. You've met the fanbase we're all a part of. Can you imagine the nightmarish catastrophe it would be if this public were allowed access to such information to peruse, analyze, nitpick, and inevitably use as a club tho beat CGL into a vaguely horse-shaped stain on the ground?

Releasing that information would only have one of two results.

1: CGL cuts off ALL contact with the fanbase. No Ask the Writers or Ask the Devs forums. No What's up with Catalyst presentations. No occasional forum or blog posts. Nothing ever again.

or

2: Every single CGL employee is driven irrevocably insane, and production of all products ceases forever.
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Greatclub

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #238 on: 26 September 2019, 00:27:49 »
as the guy who cooks scenarios for my group the majority of the time, I too like the wiggle room.

I mean, I like deep, hard and accurate lore as much as the next guy, but that's a separate issue.

The old books that spelled out who was piloting what down to the last mech and infantry platoon leader? If you get a nitwit with, say, the Wolf's Dragoons book, I can imagine it might make it really hard to run turning points Misery or Death to Mercenaries.

Another one would be Day of Heroes and Turning Point: Glengary. Although at least I have both of those.

« Last Edit: 26 September 2019, 01:25:35 by Greatclub »

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #239 on: 26 September 2019, 05:10:13 »
1: CGL cuts off ALL contact with the fanbase. No Ask the Writers or Ask the Devs forums. No What's up with Catalyst presentations. No occasional forum or blog posts. Nothing ever again.
Like BattleChats...  (Hey I miss those, they were fun interactions, but boy howdy did it descend in the end)
2: Every single CGL employee is driven irrevocably insane
Tautology, therefore dismissed.

 

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