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Author Topic: So the celestial series... how to and why?  (Read 8938 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #270 on: 07 October 2019, 11:54:37 »
Yeah, the Seraph is pretty clearly in the second category. It's not a mech that tries to overheat and then go nuts. It's one where if it happens to overheat it gains a nice bonus(but it's not a primary strategy), and you send it after plasma/inferno units. Use the heat, I dare you.

Yeah, I was just trying to get the heat up to get a walk of 3 hexes +1 facing change.  While my ECM was in ECCM mode to keep the Lyran ECM from cutting off my network, I was also trying to drop the Thanatos & other ECM carriers when I had good shots.  I have not played with- or even against that much- Celestials, MD or really large C3i networks b/c of BV usually so my last few experiences were more for experimentation/learning and to scratch the BT itch while I finish some MM maps & table top terrain.  It also lets me know some of the ratios . . . if I can send a single choir after a veteran battalion and give it 50% casualties then that is a significant data point.  Really, with it being Lyran Regulars I should have given it a more even split between veteran & regular lances which might have addressed the 10k+ BV advantage the Lyran forces had when it started.

The other question it raised to me was . . . the mentality (or how to RP) a Manei Domini.  While they are from the Inner Sphere culture, the MD are absolutely fanatics as evidenced by their agreement to having parts of their bodies replaced by augments . . . prosthetics to regain abilities rather than be crippled is one thing, sacrificing a functional arm/eye/ear for a cybernetic replacement is a very different matter.  To me they would not have the same sense of self-preservation other IS troops exhibit, best expressed about 'living to fight another day.'  Clan warriors exhibit that sort of zealotry but they do so in search of glory and are less likely to go on a deathride for something that does not further that goal.  So the MD are a different flavor- as an example consider Avitue ordering her lights to kill the enemy mechs no matter what before her last battle- condition black?  The light L2 commander approached it with drim determination IIRC.  It also matters who they fight I think, against a Clan opponent the MD are going to be more fanatical (rabid?) than against a IS force IMO.
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Tangoforone

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #271 on: 07 October 2019, 12:31:28 »
the mentality (or how to RP) a Manei Domini.  While they are from the Inner Sphere culture, the MD are absolutely fanatic... To me they would not have the same sense of self-preservation other IS troops exhibit, best expressed about 'living to fight another day.

In my mind it really depends on the soldier.  The way I play them out is as follows (this is only my opinion, and probably not canon):

WoB Militia:  These guys are for the Word, but are not overly fanatical about it.  They won't take highly unnecessary risks to win a fight, are willing to surrender if they see it is for the best or if it is a losing fight, but probably wouldn't talk to much during interrogations.  In the end, many of them are rank-and-file ex-Comstar employees, or planetary militias that the Word gave equipment and training to.

WoB Manei Domini, rank and file:  These guys are super fanatical.  They are the ones that call in artie or air support danger close because screw the enemy.  They use anything at their disposal to win a fight, and would rather die than surrender; usually they do die while they surrender as they blow up a suicide vest in the hopes of killing their captors.

WoB Opacus:  Fanatical, but not as much as the Venatori.  Probably a bit more sense of self preservation since they are the elite of the elite, and would rather abandon a mission than be taken captive, but were not willing to get implants to replace body parts.  Most of this group can probably hide within public fairly easily since they don't have any significant implants, or none at all for most of them, so they could abandon their equipment and disappear.

WoB Venatori (excluding Berith):  Super fanatical.  Again, willing to use any means at their disposal to win a fight.  I think these guys are a bit more willing to die fighting than the Opacus or the Militia, however it depends on the situation.  If they are hunting a high value target perhaps retreat and fight another day.  If it is defending something highly critical to the success of the Word, then defend or die. 

Berith:  I don't see him as willing to die for the cause unless it is specifically ordered by the Master.  In my mind, because of his station and status within the Word of Blake, I would say this dude is going to live to fight another day.  Otherwise, similar types of tactics as the other fanatics; WMDs, oribital bombardments, whatever is at his and his teams disposal to win will be used.  This dude is willing to kill anyone, including his allies, if it is commanded by the Master.

Again, just my thoughts on how to RP them during combat.  I have never played the RPG, so I don't know how I would RP them in non-combat scenarios.

Colt Ward

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #272 on: 07 October 2019, 12:49:56 »
I would shift/squeeze in at the bottom . . . what you describe would be the Protectorate militia to me with the WoB Militia- regular line force militia like 2nd or 4th Division- being a half-step up in fanaticism.  The other side of it is, IMO, as the Jihad grinds on the Allies might be less inclined to accept surrenders (particularly the Clans) which will cause the WoB Militia to be less likely to surrender . . . and if word of that spreads, the idea that you cannot surrender could take hold.  Additionally, after the Clans I cannot imagine the Blakist Militia would like to surrender to Dracs or Cappies.

So yeah, Word of Blake Militia is going to behave like a lot of the various faction's elite commands.  Shadow Divisions and their MD is more what I was getting at . . . their fanaticism is going to feel a lot like the Clans but will be different in subtle ways.
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Wrangler

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #273 on: 08 October 2019, 06:42:14 »
Protectorate Militia to me were National Guard for the planet, locals for locals with very BAD bosses.
Word of Blake Militia  to me were regular forces which was strongly dabbled with fanatics, especially units that came out the dark and storied ones that fought in Operation Odysseus.

Then you have the Shadow Divisions, the elite and the hand pick ones on the higher number one like the 51st Shadow Division.
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Colt Ward

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #274 on: 08 October 2019, 10:47:33 »
Yeah, but to get back to it, how would you play Shadow Divisions differently than the line/regular Militia divisions?  They are going to be more fanatical, but when does that fanaticism come to the fore to override military realities?
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Tangoforone

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #275 on: 08 October 2019, 11:13:16 »
For me the fanaticism comes in to play with risk taking to win the game. 

It helps to have additional tactics up one's sleep; aerospace or artillery support, minefields, Arrow IV, FASCAM.  Let the opponents close in assuming that you aren't dumb enough to dump 4 Arrow IV missiles on the space in front of you, then dump said missiles on their face and run the risk of getting hit yourself or eat the splash damage.

Fight in cities and willingly risk the lives of civilians by fighting in that city.  I would argue by the 3070's most factions should not be as willing to enter into city fights due to the various Combat Accords.  Let your army sit just within the city and roll for the opponents missed return shots.  Heavy PPC hitting a skyscraper?  You can bet as the WoB I am going to send out a Public Relations report that the Lyran Alliance killed civilians while assaulting a city held by the Word of Blake.  It may not have an effect on the actual game in regards to numbers, but if you are RP'ing a bit that should be taken into account a little bit.

Or, set up games that occur in zones that have been affected by nuclear or biochemical weapons and use infantry.  Most forces, as far as I am aware, don't send infantry into these types of conditions due to equipment.  The MD infantry have implants specifically to be able to survive in these areas from what I recall. 

That's just what I would do I guess.  Never being in the military, I don't know too much about military protocols and what is/isn't allowed in combat scenarios, barring the few obvious ones.


Church14

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #276 on: 08 October 2019, 11:14:42 »
Yeah, but to get back to it, how would you play Shadow Divisions differently than the line/regular Militia divisions?  They are going to be more fanatical, but when does that fanaticism come to the fore to override military realities?
I would think it would manifest as an increased willingness to engage in otherwise abhorred behavior.

Take city fighting: I feel like Shadow divisions would be more inclined to destroy infrastructure to gain an edge. They’d be more willing to call heavy artillery down on settlements. More willing to use infernos to burn down buildings or a nearby forest for a tactical advantage. More willing to bulldoze through a building full of civilians to get a flank. I don’t feel like Protectorate Militia would do much of that.

 Though I am admittedly not well read for the fluff yet

Sir Chaos

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #277 on: 08 October 2019, 11:51:00 »
I would think it would manifest as an increased willingness to engage in otherwise abhorred behavior.

Take city fighting: I feel like Shadow divisions would be more inclined to destroy infrastructure to gain an edge. They’d be more willing to call heavy artillery down on settlements. More willing to use infernos to burn down buildings or a nearby forest for a tactical advantage. More willing to bulldoze through a building full of civilians to get a flank. I don’t feel like Protectorate Militia would do much of that.

 Though I am admittedly not well read for the fluff yet

The reason Protectorate Militia wouldn´t do that is that they´d be doing it on their own worlds. Would YOU call artillery on a neighbourhood in your home town? Maybe on a place where people you know and care about live? Would YOU stomp a ´Mech through your kid´s school building, not knowing if the school was evacuated before the fighting started?
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dgorsman

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #278 on: 08 October 2019, 12:30:32 »
At one point, I had a crippled Celestial stuck on top of a building, otherwise useless because of line of sight restrictions.  I had another Mech shoot the building out from under it so it could be a ground level turret.

Another instance was using a Seraph with improved jump jets facing down an enemy Awesome, possibly the best pilot in their group.  It could have used weapons and dented some armor, but instead went for the DFA.  With the vastly superior piloting skill, it easily pulled it off (even with incoming fire).  Not just crippled Awesome but dead pilot as well.

In general, a willingness to soak damage to cripple the enemy.  Not stupidly, though; risky but with good odds for the payout.  Think of the 47th Division's combat drop onto Galatea.  Dropping through the DropShip drive plumes but the surprise pretty much ensured success.
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Caedis Animus

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #279 on: 08 October 2019, 18:00:43 »
At one point, I had a crippled Celestial stuck on top of a building, otherwise useless because of line of sight restrictions.  I had another Mech shoot the building out from under it so it could be a ground level turret.
I can only imagine the verbal communication in that moment, in-universe.

It's just such an odd idea that I don't think the pilot on the building or the pilot on the ground would've even normally thought of it, so one of them would've had to come up with the idea in the first place, or have command order it right away depending on how you view it; Whichever sounds funnier to you, really.
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Sartris

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Re: So the celestial series... how to and why?
« Reply #280 on: 09 October 2019, 11:59:44 »
the idea of a mech standing on a building without causing some kind of collapse is ridiculous enough in the first place. resorting to blasting the building to get your buddy down is just acknowledging that fact and playing along.

also it's funny.

 

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