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Author Topic: Ideal Field Gun?  (Read 11903 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #180 on: 07 March 2020, 13:04:49 »
Another option for Field Guns would be the PAC . . . largest being the PAC/8?  How did that break down on ammo and did it get the AC/10 or AC/5 roll for AP ammo?
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Wolf72

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #181 on: 07 March 2020, 16:56:22 »
Want to say PAC-8 is 12 ammo ... checking now.  Nope

goes 10, 20, 40 respectively for the 8, 4, 2 sizes.
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Daryk

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #182 on: 07 March 2020, 17:18:49 »
It's interesting they're universally worse than the regular ACs (in either damage or number of shots).

Wolf72

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #183 on: 07 March 2020, 17:21:03 »
It's interesting they're universally worse than the regular ACs (in either damage or number of shots).

They are light though ... 5.5t for the PAC-8 ... PAC-2 is only 3.5t and still reaches 20 hexes iirc
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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #184 on: 07 March 2020, 17:25:39 »
So a little longer than the LAC/2, and a little lighter, with marginally fewer shots.

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #185 on: 07 March 2020, 17:30:02 »
They are light though ... 5.5t for the PAC-8 ... PAC-2 is only 3.5t and still reaches 20 hexes iirc
They're light relative to other Autocannons; that is, they're still pretty heavy.  Compare the PACs to literally any Clan energy or missile weapon...

Wolf72

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #186 on: 07 March 2020, 17:55:35 »
They're light relative to other Autocannons; that is, they're still pretty heavy.  Compare the PACs to literally any Clan energy or missile weapon...

If I want subpar weapons for my solhma units, by Kerensky I will get them!

On ICE vehicles they work out, heck even on fusion engine veh's they'll be ok.  1st 10 SHS for an energy weapon, then some extra ballistic.  I mean we could put missiles on, but nahhhh.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #187 on: 07 March 2020, 19:36:48 »
Or like the OP, they work for Clan Field Gun points.  Especially since IIRC they get the special ammos.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #188 on: 07 March 2020, 20:50:32 »
Hmm, can Battlearmor LB-X autocannons be used as field guns?
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RifleMech

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #189 on: 08 March 2020, 10:01:50 »
Because AC/2 and AC/5 are unlikely to actually penetrate armor . . . the AC/10 and AC/20 IIRC have a much better chance of actually getting that penetrating hit.  Shows how long I have not played with AP ammo, I am not sure they even need a +1 TH- I thought their penalties were half weight (rounding down) of ammo count and the mods to the crit roll chart.

Of course with the AC/20 you could theoretically get 3 chances to get a crit- roll snake eyes to a location that has 19 or less armor.  Lol, that would be a morale breaker- 20 points of damage to that side torso with ammo, 1 point of damage goes internal . . . BOOM!  Mech's ammo gets touched off, the mech literally flies sideways from the three tons of ammo going off in a chain reaction.

The cheering crew would probably not be able to hear the Firestarter running their direction.

I agree the chances for getting a hit with the AC/2 and AC/5 are a smaller than the AC/20. Their -4 and -3 to get crits are a real downer compared to the AC/20's -1.  I don't think they need a +1 modifier either but I'd guess it's so the AC/20 wouldn't be that scary.



Rather a penalty without a clear advantage in exchange. I’m totally fine with accepting a drawback if the advantage gained is worth it (see heavy lasers or TSM). AP ammo sometimes rises to that level

It is worth considering if you’re certain about a lot of slow, heavy armor as those crits will probably end up as a lot of crew stunned. That in particular stacks so volume fire from field guns is advantageous. Tying up an alacorn for a couple due to a dazed gunner is a lot of negated potential damage

my calculus also changes when regarding specialty armor listed above  but it’s a fringe case with limited applications at the end of the timeline

AP ammo has its applications to be sure. I’d just rather apply something else in most contexts.

I think the targeting mod is to balance the extra chances to crit. Which would be okay except the chances to crit get worse as the cannons get lighter. Couple that with half the ammo and I agree it isn't that balanced and that AP ammo has very limited applications.



Want to say PAC-8 is 12 ammo ... checking now.  Nope

goes 10, 20, 40 respectively for the 8, 4, 2 sizes.

Which ends up being 5, 10, and 20 shots of AP ammo. :(

I'm guessing they use the +2,+3,+4 for the AC/10, AC/5, and AC/2?



Hmm, can Battlearmor LB-X autocannons be used as field guns?

You'd think they could use them and Battlearmor Artillery but they're not listed.  :'(

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #190 on: 08 March 2020, 10:56:37 »
I agree the chances for getting a hit with the AC/2 and AC/5 are a smaller than the AC/20. Their -4 and -3 to get crits are a real downer compared to the AC/20's -1.  I don't think they need a +1 modifier either but I'd guess it's so the AC/20 wouldn't be that scary.



I think the targeting mod is to balance the extra chances to crit. Which would be okay except the chances to crit get worse as the cannons get lighter. Couple that with half the ammo and I agree it isn't that balanced and that AP ammo has very limited applications.

FASA was too concerned about balancing specialty autocannon ammo against standard autocannon ammo and forgot that standard autocannons were already being outperformed by LB-X and Ultra autocannons.
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Wolf72

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #191 on: 08 March 2020, 13:16:40 »
Or like the OP, they work for Clan Field Gun points.  Especially since IIRC they get the special ammos.

they could also help replace standard ACs that are not produced anymore or have been completely recycled.  I like weapons that are not "great, or the best of".  AC-2 and it's variants are among my favorites. 

I think they could have put the ammo for AC-20 AP at 3 and been ok.
« Last Edit: 09 March 2020, 20:13:59 by Wolf72 »
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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #192 on: 09 March 2020, 05:13:55 »
FASA was too concerned about balancing specialty autocannon ammo against standard autocannon ammo and forgot that standard autocannons were already being outperformed by LB-X and Ultra autocannons.
And that they where introducing these specialty types of ammo to balance the standard A/Cs against those upstarts

Daryk

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #193 on: 09 March 2020, 17:27:37 »
they could also help replace standard ACs that are not produced anymore of have been completely recycled.  I like weapons that are not "great, or the best of".  AC-2 and it's variants are among my favorites. 
*snip*
And I bet Taurian squads of 30 for the 5-gun platoon, too (not that there's anything wrong with that)...  ^-^

RifleMech

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #194 on: 09 March 2020, 19:44:01 »
It would have been nice if FASA hadn't tried so hard to balance AP that they unbalanced it. After all if one of the biggest guns in the game is only going to have 2 shots, getting a crit should be a sure thing with the other ACs going from there.

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #195 on: 01 April 2020, 04:32:10 »
Remember this thread and realized that we'd forgotten to cover the Rifles, and in particular the Heavy Rifle, weight and range are the same as AC/5, less ammo per ton, but it does 6 damage against most targets and 9 against BA, this last makes it very useful.

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #196 on: 01 April 2020, 06:51:25 »
Remember this thread and realized that we'd forgotten to cover the Rifles, and in particular the Heavy Rifle, weight and range are the same as AC/5, less ammo per ton, but it does 6 damage against most targets and 9 against BA, this last makes it very useful.

I think I made a pitch for them earlier ... got steamrolled over by the AC-5 Mafia.

found it ...

never used, but I like the idea of Heavy and Medium Rifles ... talk about 'dirt-bag' militia worthy!  Wish the light rifle could actually do damage to BAR-10 units, even one point, but still fun to have as a very low tech option.
« Last Edit: 01 April 2020, 09:05:28 by Wolf72 »
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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #197 on: 01 April 2020, 09:02:51 »
What are the numbers of guns you can fit in a platoon for Large Rifles vs Medium Rifles?
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Wolf72

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #198 on: 01 April 2020, 09:06:23 »
What are the numbers of guns you can fit in a platoon for Large Rifles vs Medium Rifles?

based on weapon tonnage right? ... Light rifle is 3 tons, Medium is 5. (heavy is 8, same as AC-5)
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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #199 on: 01 April 2020, 09:27:43 »
So a standard 28-strong platoon can run 3 Heavy Rifles, 5 Medium Rifles, or 9 Light Rifles.

Heavies edge things out in raw damage, but I think I'd prefer Medium Rifles. 5 3-point hits is on par with a lot of battlesuit squads, and 5 sixes with leave a LOT of BA wanting to be somewhere else.
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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #200 on: 01 April 2020, 09:59:59 »
I think I made a pitch for them earlier ... got steamrolled over by the AC-5 Mafia.

found it ...


I think I mentioned them but I don't remember. I do like Rifles as Field Guns. Being used as Field Guns is the best use for them. Mount them on things and you get specialty units that aren't much use outside their specialty.

Wolf72

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #201 on: 01 April 2020, 11:51:35 »

I think I mentioned them but I don't remember. I do like Rifles as Field Guns. Being used as Field Guns is the best use for them. Mount them on things and you get specialty units that aren't much use outside their specialty.

did you by chance refer them as 8.8cm field guns?

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #202 on: 01 April 2020, 14:30:30 »
Not at all accurate, but you'll never convince me to visualize them as anything other than this:

"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
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Colt Ward

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #203 on: 01 April 2020, 14:58:27 »
Come on, you know some minor noble in Lyran space dresses his personal guard up in something like that costume!  Or von Whateverhisnameis has his troops perform 're-enactments' of his ancestral roots when grand daddy followed Frederick tromping around Europe.
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RifleMech

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #204 on: 01 April 2020, 15:05:33 »
did you by chance refer them as 8.8cm field guns?

Maybe? I do like the 88. :)



Not at all accurate, but you'll never convince me to visualize them as anything other than this:



Could be fun. Reminds me of when I wanted to use Risk game pieces on the BT game board with Mechs. ;D




Come on, you know some minor noble in Lyran space dresses his personal guard up in something like that costume!  Or von Whateverhisnameis has his troops perform 're-enactments' of his ancestral roots when grand daddy followed Frederick tromping around Europe.



If Jamie Wolf And Greyson Carlisle can reenact American Civil War Battles, I can easily see a minor noble having dress up reenactments.

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #205 on: 01 April 2020, 15:16:06 »
Not at all accurate, but …
You are now resposable for greasing Poog to illustrate some PALs feeding Napoleonic 12-lbrs …
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Colt Ward

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #206 on: 01 April 2020, 15:29:02 »
You are now resposable for greasing Poog to illustrate some PALs feeding Napoleonic 12-lbrs …

To be honest, I would like to see a PA(L) squad field gun squad? platoon?  and thought we should have had one for a while.  Just like PA(L) would be useful for combat supply points increasing the work a single soldier can perform, give a gun bunny a PA(L) and they will be able to manhandle the gun & feed the gun would require fewer people.
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Wolf72

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #207 on: 01 April 2020, 15:42:39 »
A BA/PA(L) Field Gun unit? ... Yes, yes. Give in to your feelings.
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Wolf72

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #208 on: 01 April 2020, 15:45:13 »
totally redacted musings ... (I opened up my pdfs and am now trying to re-socket my eyeballs)
« Last Edit: 01 April 2020, 20:55:59 by Wolf72 »
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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #209 on: 01 April 2020, 18:58:36 »
I actually did provide my planetary militia with industrial exoskeletons to handle ammo... A suit that can pick up a ton is trivial to design.