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Author Topic: Ideal Field Gun?  (Read 11911 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #60 on: 11 August 2019, 01:50:25 »
Further more with the way field guns work taking Ultra's is never a good idea as you lose access to special munitions (Which you can double tap without problems for field guns), which include caseless, which doubles the number of rounds.

Huh?  Ultra do not get any special munitions.
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AdmiralObvious

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #61 on: 11 August 2019, 02:15:02 »
Huh?  Ultra do not get any special munitions.
That's what they said. Ultras don't get special ammo. Regular ACs however do, and can double tap without risk of jamming if you use the rapid fire rules, since infantry is immune to weapon jams.

Greatclub

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #62 on: 11 August 2019, 03:00:20 »
That's what they said. Ultras don't get special ammo. Regular ACs however do, and can double tap without risk of jamming if you use the rapid fire rules, since infantry is immune to weapon jams.

Big if. Using all the optional rules is hardly univeral.

Next time my sparring partner wants to pull out his field guns, I'm asking anti-rad missiles in return; and I'll be playing the WOBbies in that campaign. Will he think double-tap is worth ECCM, and the chance to keep my C3i up? Don't know. He loves his field guns, but there are practical limits to what they're really worth.
« Last Edit: 11 August 2019, 03:14:50 by Greatclub »

Hellraiser

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #63 on: 11 August 2019, 17:05:27 »
Hmm.

Twin AC20 Caseless Field Gun Platoon.

I think that might be the best "Ambush" platoon idea I've ever had.

Hide them in some woods or a building.

Might be more effort to drop a building on them than trying to root them out.

They might live long enough to need that "caseless" extra ammo option.

Heh.
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Sartris

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #64 on: 11 August 2019, 17:15:31 »
in my experience they do not. once revealed, they die very very quickly

Hellraiser

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #65 on: 11 August 2019, 17:26:56 »
With Woods or a Building and double tapping the AC's.

That's only 4 more rounds to live through.

And dealing 4x AC20 shots per turn means anything that was or gets close doesn't stay dangerous for long.

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Sartris

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #66 on: 11 August 2019, 17:28:58 »
oh we're double tapping? yeah, whatever gets caught flat-footed is hamburger. that hex is going to get artilleried to shit though.

Maingunnery

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #67 on: 11 August 2019, 17:52:47 »
If it is a suicide platoon, it might as well use precision ammo, to make their few shots count.
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pheonixstorm

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #68 on: 11 August 2019, 21:22:03 »
Or give them the Rangemaster SPA for Long or Extreme range values. No need for short range then or precision. Especially if you put them in a hardened bunker >:D :beatdown:

AdmiralObvious

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #69 on: 11 August 2019, 22:46:35 »
Or give them the Rangemaster SPA for Long or Extreme range values. No need for short range then or precision. Especially if you put them in a hardened bunker >:D :beatdown:
I don't think infantry can get SPA's? Considering the entire squad/platoon would need it as well.

Sartris

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #70 on: 11 August 2019, 22:49:01 »
There are infantry-only spas so that would have been a waste to make them if they can’t have them

AdmiralObvious

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #71 on: 11 August 2019, 23:23:26 »
There are infantry-only spas so that would have been a waste to make them if they can’t have them
Alright, because the acronym stands for "special pilot abilities". I'll have to poke around my books and see where SPA's come out.

Sartris

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #72 on: 11 August 2019, 23:29:16 »
infantrymen in the BTU have tiny lizards piloting their bodies

SPAs are in campaign operations

Hellraiser

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #73 on: 12 August 2019, 01:22:49 »
If it is a suicide platoon, it might as well use precision ammo, to make their few shots count.

Can't use Precision + Caseless IIRC but for standard ACs then I agree.

Especially those long ranged 2's & 5's where the 1/2 shots doesn't hurt you.
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pheonixstorm

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #74 on: 12 August 2019, 03:31:55 »
I don't think infantry can get SPA's? Considering the entire squad/platoon would need it as well.

In Campaign Operations a lot of the SPAs have a unit type of ANY. Some of those actually specify that only certain crew can use the SPA. So, while you wouldn't think infantry can use that SPA there is nothing that says they can't.

Quote
MANEUVERING ACE
Unit Type: Any non-infantry

Quote
MARKSMAN
Unit Type: Any
The Marksman Ability enables a
MechWarrior, ProtoMech pilot, fighter pilot,
or vehicular crew gunner to...

Quote
RANGE MASTER
Unit Type: Any
The Range Master Ability grants the warrior mastery over any...

Quote
FOOT CAVALRY
Unit Type: Infantry

This isn't aToW so you don't have to worry that every soldier has it. Not unless you want to track things at that level. Just look a the MANEUVERING ACE SPA above.

Can't use Precision + Caseless IIRC but for standard ACs then I agree.

Especially those long ranged 2's & 5's where the 1/2 shots doesn't hurt you.


Not exactly sure what you are referring to on this but...

A Field Gun platoon can use multiple ammo types. So one gun could have precision, another caseless, a third tracer rounds, and the fourth armor piercing.

If you meant they can't fire both in rapid fire using the same gun... that would be correct. Though a question was asked long ago about pulling multiple ammo types if only 1 shot remained. I don't remember what the official answer was.

If it was meant that UAC or RAC can't use speical ammo... would be also correct so ignore me then.

dgorsman

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #75 on: 12 August 2019, 04:24:09 »
Thing is, you can't combine caseless with other types on a mechanized unit.  So I think that would be applied to field guns as well.  It would all be caseless, or none.
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AdmiralObvious

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #76 on: 12 August 2019, 04:32:52 »
Yeah, I pulled up the PDF, and I stand corrected. Field gun infantry is a lot more useful than I thought it was, seeing as EACH GUN gets it's own ton of separate ammo/ammo types of you so wished. Found the SPA's too.
Thing is, you can't combine caseless with other types on a mechanized unit.  So I think that would be applied to field guns as well.  It would all be caseless, or none.
I just went looking, and it seems that you can mix and match. You might run into a rule technicality if you've gotten down to the last gun, and you've got to argue whether or not it has the caseless feed or not.

Edit: I don't see any indication that you can't use a caseless and regular ammo, it's just that one of the cannons needs to be designated as a caseless gun.
« Last Edit: 12 August 2019, 04:37:52 by AdmiralObvious »

Daryk

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #77 on: 12 August 2019, 04:33:53 »
In the case of Foot Cavalry (at least), it's only every squad leader that would need it.

Ursus Maior

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #78 on: 12 August 2019, 07:59:05 »
oh we're double tapping? yeah, whatever gets caught flat-footed is hamburger. that hex is going to get artilleried to shit though.
If you park that package in woods, infernos is what's going to be inbound. For these types of shenanigans, one should keep a single MissPeggy or a Warrior out of that cavalry lance with inferno SRMs handy.
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Ursus Maior

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #79 on: 12 August 2019, 08:00:08 »
I don't think infantry can get SPA's? Considering the entire squad/platoon would need it as well.
The "warrior" with the SPA in that case is the platoon leader. He confers the ability to the full platoon as per Campaign Operations.
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pheonixstorm

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #80 on: 12 August 2019, 17:03:06 »
In the case of Foot Cavalry (at least), it's only every squad leader that would need it.

I think that and the 15 meter text is a holdover from A Time of War rather than the actual rule for TW play since a platoon in TW doesn't even go to that level unless the unit is built as a squad.

Daryk

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #81 on: 12 August 2019, 17:26:40 »
Well, the AToW Companion has this text:
Quote
Squads led by a Foot Cavalry character...

And Campaign Operations has this:
Quote
The Foot Cavalry Ability is only effective with infantry squads...

Both of which pretty explicitly state it's only intended to operate at the Squad level.  So if you want a platoon to operate with it, every squad leader needs the SPA.  Granted, that's not much of a stretch if you're operating with platoons of infantry...

truetanker

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #82 on: 14 September 2019, 15:46:34 »
*Double checks dates* It's theoretically possible the WoB had access to Clan RAC's, so does a platoon of those sound with iC3?

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I have some even nastier versions as well...

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Exnihilo

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #83 on: 17 February 2020, 03:17:46 »
That's what they said. Ultras don't get special ammo. Regular ACs however do, and can double tap without risk of jamming if you use the rapid fire rules, since infantry is immune to weapon jams.

Re-read the current errata on field guns. It explicitly stated UACs and RACs do not jam and that Guass doesn't explode. Infantry seem to no longer be blanket immune to jamming so rapid-fire on standard ACs is still risky.

Colt Ward

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #84 on: 17 February 2020, 11:21:14 »
I will have to look at it, but the part of rapid-fire ACs is a optional rule and not how they function.  The other thing is, if the rapid fire rule talks about it-

"fired at double the standard rate as though it were and Ultra AC."  So the 'not jamming' aspect comes through the TacOps rule saying it behaves as if the standard AC is an Ultra and then lists the exceptions.
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Sartris

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #85 on: 17 February 2020, 13:01:32 »
Yeah I think “field guns don’t suffer the normal multi-shot or gauss drawbacks” is the spirit of the rule

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #86 on: 17 February 2020, 13:27:24 »
So the Taurian Field Gun Infantry gets even better eh...

10 turns of hurt inbound, rapid fire! And some more at nine hexes with those S-PPCs and the dubious AR range of three to boot.

And they move at 2 per turn... when not firing them.

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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #87 on: 22 February 2020, 01:50:16 »
Idly, I wonder if they ever did anything with the rules abuse case I posited a while back.  Is there a limit on the NUMBER of guns an infantry platoon can have?  Because 25 men in a Clan infantry platoon can haul around 25 tons worth of ballistic weapons...which would be 100 LMGs. 

Just saying.

Exnihilo

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #88 on: 22 February 2020, 02:57:01 »
Yeah I think “field guns don’t suffer the normal multi-shot or gauss drawbacks” is the spirit of the rule
I think the spirit of the rule is for UAC/RAC costs and restrictions (such as no custom ammo). Allowing for jam free ACs in rapid-fire negates any reason to use UACs unless you're clan. Machine guns explicitly state they cannot be fired in rapid-fire with infantry field gun formations in the errata so I have a hard time buying that while you can rapid-fire ACs they are jam free as well.

This is coming from someone who uses field gun infantry extensively.

I can definitely be wrong but it doesn't seem like the rule was designed with that intention.

Daryk

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Re: Ideal Field Gun?
« Reply #89 on: 22 February 2020, 05:40:59 »
Wait... Machine Guns can be field guns now?  ???

 

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