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Author Topic: MechWarrior: Destiny  (Read 25817 times)

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #360 on: 19 September 2019, 11:36:18 »
Not to jump into the middle of a conversation, but I don't know if I understand how you're defining "lore" in this case.

I would argue that, especially with the TTS books where we get a deep dive of obscure planets, most Battletech sourcebooks are nothing but lore.  Heck, even the old field manuals were mostly just fluff for everyone's order of battle.  Sure, the dedicated rules sections were generally not MW/AToW-friendly, but you can certainly use the rest of the material to add color and detail to an RPG campaign.

While I agree that some older books where lore heavy The old house book series for example, a lot of what some people are calling lore in the newer books revolve around house structure, military force OOBs and strengths, and the stories tend to be mostly about the mega plot.
As a RPGer and wargamer I can say that a lot of this info is not all that useful to my RPG play. Especially when it involves the current timeline when I either play in the 3025 or 3050 timeline. So I buy most of these books only if they have new rules for AToW that I can uses during that time. The wargamer side of my play gets uses out of the TW rules and Chaos campaign information (new scenario paths) in the rule sections, and again if it the book is missing this information I tend to avoid it till I can get it on sale on drivethru because I'm also a collector.

Overall what I am getting at is if I did not play Battletech the boardgame and only RPGed (And was not a collector) I would not have given a lot of the books in the line a second look. I may have hunted down older books from the timeline I played in, but the new post-invasion era books would have been useless to me.

Now back to the point. As I don't want this to become like the AToW 2nd thread were we go back and forth accomplishing nothing.
I was responding to Cubby's post and will wait for his answers.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #361 on: 19 September 2019, 11:41:12 »
While I totally agree with you here, you also have to remember that the Battletech game community at it's core are wargamers. And while it would be nice to bring in new blood to the universe, The majority of players these new players are going to meet are going to be wargamers and crunch RPG players. While I have nothing against narrative/lite rules players (just playing with the rules myself), I don't see them changing their playstyle to crossover into the greater Battletech community. So in the end further dividing CGL's resources to support another subset of the community. And while I say bring them in, I just don't want to see Any of these subset within the community get the shaft because of lack of resources to go around.

Some of the same issues above, if you are not expecting the players of this game to support the larger Battletech product line then it has to be asked why divert resources to it with the expatiation that  you will get a few new players for this product only?

I get where you're going here. And honestly, I agree, I think growing the line is critical and that means prioritizing products and efforts that will bring in new players. But then...I'm not management. The best answer I can give as to their thinking is that having a modern-style RPG on the shelf provides one more way to expose a different sub-set of gamers to the BattleTech brand. I think you're on the mark that most gamers interested in a mecha-flavor RPG may not jump into a tabletop miniatures game, but it's an avenue of exposure that BT has always had.

As far as the opportunity cost in producing this - hard to say. But considering that MW:D was included in the KS, I suppose that's evidence that it will be supported going forward.

Quote
On this one I have to ask
(no initiative)
1. Will there be an optional rule to add it?

Kind of? Players can use plot points they accrue through various methods to "jump in front" of another player to give a narration. It's a little hard to describe if you're not familiar with the Cue system - check out the Beta when it releases, then circle back to tell me what you think.

Quote
(all gear is covered through XP instead of cash)
1. Is this just in character creation or throughout the game?
2. Will gear have C-Bill cost if you want to ignore this?
3. Will armor have stat or is it just going to be a spend 3XP or what ever, get +1 armor system.

1. Throughout the game. I realize this isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. But it's part of the rules-lite intent of the system. All hail the mighty C-bill, but it's a bit inconsistent to strip down most of the rules and still make you play AccountTech for repairing your gear and buying new stuff.
2. Groups are certainly empowered to track things via C-Bills if they choose, but there is not a list of costs in the book or anything.
3. I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. There are various types of personal armor, which each have a certain number of "pips" of damage they can sustain.

Before I get peppered by too many more specific questions, please know that we're in the final stages of getting the Beta together, so all those questions will be answered soon. I don't mean to put anyone off, but I don't want anyone to pre-judge the book before they take their own, fresh look at it. Phil put a lot of work into it.
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Colt Ward

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #362 on: 19 September 2019, 11:52:48 »
Not to jump into the middle of a conversation, but I don't know if I understand how you're defining "lore" in this case.

I would argue that, especially with the TTS books where we get a deep dive of obscure planets, most Battletech sourcebooks are nothing but lore.  Heck, even the old field manuals were mostly just fluff for everyone's order of battle.  Sure, the dedicated rules sections were generally not MW/AToW-friendly, but you can certainly use the rest of the material to add color and detail to an RPG campaign.

Yeah, the TtS I have were great for that . . . Manassas, Nosiel, Butte Hold, and others are great for people looking for story and places/ways to set their stories.  In fact, while they do have TW/AS set up, they are built for RP heavy versions of those games IMO.  Manassas TtS is in fact a great starting point IMO for any RP group because of the Run and set for very small groups that are not mechwarrior centric- your techs are in some ways more important.  House Arano might be one of the 'bigger' RP friendly books in a while, but as mentioned that would get back to the nature of what its modeled after.  PDF exclusive books might actually be better for RP'ers since they involve more niche areas they can build a story out of- even the Spotlights, Marik Protectors come to mind from last year's WWE.  Little blurbs about individual pilots, particularly mentioning one that is not trusted . . . who might be looking to make his own escape from his 'rescuers' would be a interesting story springboard.

I will agree the spine books might be less interesting for RP groups, but they still provide openings for creative RP groups.
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victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #363 on: 19 September 2019, 11:55:40 »
I get where you're going here. And honestly, I agree, I think growing the line is critical and that means prioritizing products and efforts that will bring in new players. But then...I'm not management. The best answer I can give as to their thinking is that having a modern-style RPG on the shelf provides one more way to expose a different sub-set of gamers to the BattleTech brand. I think you're on the mark that most gamers interested in a mecha-flavor RPG may not jump into a tabletop miniatures game, but it's an avenue of exposure that BT has always had.

As far as the opportunity cost in producing this - hard to say. But considering that MW:D was included in the KS, I suppose that's evidence that it will be supported going forward.

Kind of? Players can use plot points they accrue through various methods to "jump in front" of another player to give a narration. It's a little hard to describe if you're not familiar with the Cue system - check out the Beta when it releases, then circle back to tell me what you think.

1. Throughout the game. I realize this isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. But it's part of the rules-lite intent of the system. All hail the mighty C-bill, but it's a bit inconsistent to strip down most of the rules and still make you play AccountTech for repairing your gear and buying new stuff.
2. Groups are certainly empowered to track things via C-Bills if they choose, but there is not a list of costs in the book or anything.
3. I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. There are various types of personal armor, which each have a certain number of "pips" of damage they can sustain.

Before I get peppered by too many more specific questions, please know that we're in the final stages of getting the Beta together, so all those questions will be answered soon. I don't mean to put anyone off, but I don't want anyone to pre-judge the book before they take their own, fresh look at it. Phil put a lot of work into it.

Not going to push any deeper. :thumbsup:
Mostly just trying to figure out ultimate goal here and a lot of the Con interviews/AMA info on this game seemed to lay it out as a gateway system idea to bring more players to the Battletech Boardgame, and the comment about keeping it separate kind of undermined that.

As for the Armor,
"3. I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. There are various types of personal armor, which each have a certain number of "pips" of damage they can sustain."
 I was referring to Shadowrun Anarchy's Armor rules, where you get armor for character points then by spending #XP/Karma during play you can increase it. "This is a simple matter of spending #Karma for each #-point improvement in Armor."
Really not a fan of this.

#=numbers removed for, you know the reason.
« Last Edit: 19 September 2019, 12:01:08 by victor_shaw »

DarkSpade

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #364 on: 19 September 2019, 19:04:44 »
I can understand making it stand alone from the table top game. Most of my gamer friends are RPG players and they rarely ever even pull out a grid map for anything but the most complicated fights.
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Dmon

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #365 on: 19 September 2019, 20:54:27 »
I can understand making it stand alone from the table top game. Most of my gamer friends are RPG players and they rarely ever even pull out a grid map for anything but the most complicated fights.

Pretty much this, in all honesty these days I have very little interests in actually playing Classic BattleTech, Alpha Strike seems like a great system but does not really seem to of gotten the full support of the devs.

A new modern RPG system for BT does not really need that much support from the devs because in all honesty Sarna has grown into a HUGE source of lore over being a source of rules related stuff. I want a series of pre-generated RPG Adventures to be published in support of Destiny but any GM who does not spend a considerable amount of time on Sarna is likely missing a trick for custom Adventures.
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Talen5000

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #366 on: 20 September 2019, 00:11:37 »
I can understand making it stand alone from the table top game. Most of my gamer friends are RPG players and they rarely ever even pull out a grid map for anything but the most complicated fights.

As I said, if you want to integrate the table Top into the RPG, then simply direct players to the Table Top game and provide a skill link in the skill description. Tactics for initiative, Gunnery and Piloting as normal. Computer or tech rolls to avoid shutdowns.

But otherwise, a straightforward expansion of vehicle combat rules should suffice.
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Tolrak

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #367 on: 20 September 2019, 19:17:49 »
Will the MW: Destiny rules be adaptable to Clan era or will we have to wait for the Clan sourcebook to come out?

mrbooth

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #368 on: 20 September 2019, 19:37:34 »
Has clan era rules in it, just downloaded the beta but have not gone through it yet

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #369 on: 20 September 2019, 19:40:27 »
Just looking at the table of contents, I have to say it's odd to put character creation at page 68...

GermanSumo

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #370 on: 20 September 2019, 20:01:53 »
hey guys...

on p. 158 the dragon has HEAD 3/2 pips. As even the Dire Wolf on page 228 has just 3/1 i can safely assume thats a typo/mistake?

Sartris

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #371 on: 20 September 2019, 20:17:57 »
Just looking at the table of contents, I have to say it's odd to put character creation at page 68...

Looks like it’s

Primer - jump in - basic gameplay - complete creation rules

Unsure if that’s a good format but that appears to be the flow

abou

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #372 on: 20 September 2019, 20:46:01 »
What was the reasoning behind flipping the battlemech locations around on the sheets? I understand that if you are actually look face-on at a 'mech, it is not a mirror. However, you have thousands of sheets with it from a mirror view. Just seems like... that is a major head trip trying to not confuse them and likely a stumbling block for new players wanting to transition from Destiny to TW or vice versa.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #373 on: 20 September 2019, 20:57:11 »
I daresay that would be a worse mistake than flipping the modifiers for skill checks like AToW did...

pixelgeek

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #374 on: 20 September 2019, 21:00:41 »
Do the chapter tabs on the page edges seem backward to anyone else? Shouldn't they start at the top and move down?

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #375 on: 20 September 2019, 21:04:16 »
Agreed... those seem to be backwards too.  I also keep getting "A drawing error occurred" messages from Adobe...

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #376 on: 20 September 2019, 21:22:18 »
Hey guys,

How can someone acquire this particular info? Drivethru RPG? Amazon?


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Colt Ward

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #378 on: 20 September 2019, 21:25:42 »
Yeah, had to be a Kickstarter to get the drop.
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Dak

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #379 on: 20 September 2019, 21:39:51 »
Agreed... those seem to be backwards too.  I also keep getting "A drawing error occurred" messages from Adobe...

The same tab format is used in Alpha Strike Commander's Edition and the BattleMech manual. I guess it makes more sense if you turn the book on its side, then they go left to right?

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BiggRigg42

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #380 on: 20 September 2019, 23:06:57 »
You know how you can ask a question in one place and then have somebody in another place answer that question. It happened to me just now. So, I'm editing this post that used to be a question to no longer contain that question.
« Last Edit: 20 September 2019, 23:18:55 by BiggRigg42 »

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #381 on: 21 September 2019, 01:16:54 »
Well, in trying out the rules so far, I can say that Destiny passes my first criterion -- relatively easy and painless character creation  :thumbsup:

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #382 on: 21 September 2019, 01:55:52 »
Finished my first quick read.
So far I'm not see any of the major issues I had with SR:A so good sign so far.
Going to start my thorough read tomorrow. (could sleep so doing it tonight.)
We shall see how it holds up after that.
« Last Edit: 21 September 2019, 03:48:03 by victor_shaw »

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #383 on: 21 September 2019, 02:03:30 »
So far I haven't seen anything that changes my mind about the Cue system.

It just isn't for me or what I'm looking for in a RPG game and by the time it is changed to be what I'm looking for or what I want it would not be accurate to say that it is even so much as based on the Cue system.

Now I want to be clear I'm not saying it is bad or isn't worth CGL exploring but I'm clearly not the target audience.

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #384 on: 21 September 2019, 03:46:50 »
After a page by page read through I have to say I will not be beta testing this RPG.
I could not present this game to my group with a strait face.

The Bad
From what I have read, this is not a role playing, it's a high-school drama club script writing meeting.
The game flow is simplistic to say the lest.
Character creation is limited at best, mindless at worst.
The opposed skill system is so random as to make have high skills a waste. A seasoned trained doctor can fail a tonsillectomy, just because the GM rolled well.
The narrative turn system will be a rule laws/powergamers paradise. Forcing the GM to spend session after secession raining them in.
Overall the game is a players storytelling secession not a rpg.

The Good
The mech-combat damage system has promise as a optional damage system for Alpha strike/Battleforce.
It Would work well to relive the complaints about the sameness of Battlemechs in those system.
Could also be used in AToW with some modifications to give a option to avoid a TW bogging down there game.

So as I see no way this game will be playable by me or my players without over a 2/3 rewrite, so for those that like this kind of game I will not waste CGL and my time, since there is no way that CGL could even make this game playable by me without making it unplayable to those that like this type of game.
« Last Edit: 21 September 2019, 04:05:39 by victor_shaw »

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #385 on: 21 September 2019, 07:34:55 »
I just ran through the character creation section, and have to wonder why they didn't merge INT and WIL like they did BOD and STR...

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #386 on: 21 September 2019, 07:49:19 »
Ok, 50 pages of sample characters and another 15 on missions is a bit much in between sections you NEED for character creation (specifically, all the traits, life modules and equipment/hardware).  And having the skill list way back at page 30 is weird too.  And people say AToW is badly laid out...  ::)

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #387 on: 21 September 2019, 08:24:36 »
just as an aside, and yes, I know how much work was done in getting this out timely...

A set of bookmarks would have been nice.  Just getting into it this morning before work
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Sartris

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #388 on: 21 September 2019, 08:27:16 »
And people say AToW is badly laid out...  ::)

It should be noted that being the less odorous turd does not change its essential nature

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #389 on: 21 September 2019, 08:36:41 »
True, but one would have thought that would have been a consideration when laying out the new book...

 

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