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Author Topic: MechWarrior: Destiny  (Read 35226 times)

sanpats

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #60 on: 24 July 2019, 20:51:44 »
That depends entirely on what exactly Destiny is...

I still don't get why 'what Destiny is' have to do with your enjoyment of AToW. MW2e is long OOP and unsupported, but I'm still running it and enjoying it.

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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #61 on: 24 July 2019, 20:53:14 »
If Destiny is the new RPG rules, it will be that much harder to find players for AToW… how many 3rd Edition players do you know?

sanpats

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #62 on: 24 July 2019, 21:01:24 »
If Destiny is the new RPG rules, it will be that much harder to find players for AToW… how many 3rd Edition players do you know?

Most people I know play 2e, but that's just my experience. And Destiny will be the new RPG rules, that much is clear.

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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #63 on: 24 July 2019, 21:02:40 »
I'm not seeing that, but if it's so...  :P

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #64 on: 24 July 2019, 21:43:31 »


Hmmm...

That's an error. It should be MechWarrior: Legends, the book unlocked as a stretch goal, not Destiny.

Destiny will be awhile yet, it's still in edit.
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Orin J.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #65 on: 24 July 2019, 22:18:06 »
I've heard people say the same about Alpha Strike; some people just value different things in a game.  I find A Time of War un-playably unwieldy on the character creation front, so I'm looking forward to MechWarrior: Destiny.

my own opinion of AToW has been that the book has some issues with properly conveying information, particularly character generation, but i've never found the time i'd need to recompile it to test. so i'm cautiously hopeful about mechwarrior: destiny has been written with people new to both the setting and RPGs in mind instead of assuming a certain grognardishness.
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sanpats

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #66 on: 24 July 2019, 22:56:35 »
I'm not seeing that, but if it's so...  :P

At the minimum, they will keep both AToW and MW:D for different groups of players, those who prefer detailed simulationistic game and those who prefer rule liter one. Or MW:D will be a new edition and supercede AToW. I can only think of these two possibilities.

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CoreWatch

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #67 on: 25 July 2019, 02:39:20 »
G'evening gents!

Might I intercede here for a few minutes? Hopefully, this will be read as a voice of reason, or at least it will be seen as neutral bias on the subject of CGL entertaining the novel idea of creating a new version of the Mechwarrior RPG system for the future.

First, let me say thank you Sanpats for showing the folks who troll these forums the prospect that there is a possible new version of the RPG system in the works. If it happens and it works for the GM's and their player's gaming venues in that future, then great! If not then those current GM's out there at that time should see no harm and no foul in the attempt and can stick with one of the other editions of the game as each iteration of this game system seems to have a small and loyal die-hard fan base anyway for whatever reasons that they do for whatever version of the game that they particularly like to play.

Now for those stuck in the time warp of believing that the current 4th edition version of the RPG, aka ATOW, is the shiznit and/or the end-all of be all in perfection in balancing and blending the tabletop to the RPG elements. Then let's be real and break down the myth for you that it's truly not a great RPG edition in and of itself. Simple math... we've had two real books for this edition of the Mechwarrior RPG at the moment and that's all we've had for nearly a decade. Think about that for a minute and let it sink in... two real books and nothing else... the base ATOW RPG and then a companion book. Other then that nothing really at all. Now some would argue that it's because the rules are perfect and adaptable to the tabletop as is so why do we need anything else, others could argue against that idea for any number of various reason and they too could be seen as right in their ideas as well.

Now having said that, then let me make this part clear, the rules in ATOW function well enough to keep most gamer groups happy once you get past the time-consuming character creation, the confusion of the combat mechanics, and the vast amount of charts and rules in general that have to be kept track of until you become an expert at them for most likely however long it takes for that to sink in to your gamers minds. However, so does any of a number of dozens of other RPG's out on the market which could be made to adapt and run this game genre just fine with some creative imagination and conversion by their group's gamemaster if they decide to invest the time into doing so for their group and their desires. Truly the best reason as to why having the possibility of a new RPG version of the game is something that we all should want. Is if the game does commercially succeed and everyone learns to adapt to the new ruleset with an open mind then there is the likeliness that CGL will continue making more products for the game line specifically oriented for the RPG adventures with possible intent and ways of integrating new ideas, maps, modules, rules, and new cannon into the lore... as well a better melding the rules to further and hopefully seamlessly adapt the RPG to the tabletop for a truly cinematic experience rather then just a mathematic nightmare of numbers and charts.

Let's face a simple truth and fact that happens at most gaming stores and venues across the world is that most gamers want a simple enough but diverse enough game system that can entice more people to play their desired game quickly and efficiently. Yes, there has to be a reasonable ruleset put in place with a good technical balance for the game system to succeed. But let's face it, the Battletech/Mechwarrior brand and licensing is not likely to win millions or even tens of thousands of fans over if the rules are too convoluted with hundreds of charts and/or require your GM to make the players characters for them especially if it requires a nice fancy excel or PDF character sheet to calculate the mathematics for them. Sure those things help the community if folks are willing to invest the time into assisting their players to do so (by the way kudos to those who have made sheets). But the point is that if we want the RPG game to truly succeed, it needs to be easily read, easily adaptable, and hopefully innovative and elegant enough to break the stigma that we currently have when approaching a new player to the genre other then by telling him/her that hey here's the book... you'll have a lot to learn if you want to play.

The bottom line is that each edition of any game system will appeal to a certain crowd. The ones that do it and win the hearts of the masses are the ones that will continue to succeed the most and consequently will be the game systems that will continue to flourish and grow.

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Frabby

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #68 on: 25 July 2019, 03:39:30 »
So will MW: Destiny be to AToW what Alpha Strike is to AGoAC?
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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #69 on: 25 July 2019, 05:13:04 »
At the minimum, they will keep both AToW and MW:D for different groups of players, those who prefer detailed simulationistic game and those who prefer rule liter one. Or MW:D will be a new edition and supercede AToW. I can only think of these two possibilities.
I'm going to hope for the former, personally.

sanpats

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #70 on: 25 July 2019, 15:08:19 »
I'm going to hope for the former, personally.

In 'THIS is BattleTech' promotional pdf shows only MW:D as the RPG option for BattleTech. At least this is what CGL intends for the new comers.

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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #71 on: 25 July 2019, 18:26:04 »
Lovely.  Well, I suppose that's one way to shed grognards.

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #72 on: 25 July 2019, 20:48:18 »
My hope is that MechWarrior: Destiny fixes what was bad about AToW and leaves the rest allow.
AToW was a good system game mechanics wise it's character creation engine was its only issues.
I hope they don't pull a Shadowrun 6th edition and gut the system removing all logic and reason for the sake of "Simplifying".

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #73 on: 26 July 2019, 04:00:48 »
Heh... that's how I felt about Shadowrun 4th edition too...

Sartris

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #74 on: 26 July 2019, 09:38:43 »
you'll know AToW is dead if they print MW:Destiny with the spine art to fit with the core reprints. another hint might be they put new system rules in a place where AToW rules would have been. until then i don't see them scrapping a perfectly serviceable system (complaints about character creation aside) 

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #75 on: 26 July 2019, 17:06:58 »
If they do kill it, I certainly hope they issue new era guidance in one way or another.  I suppose now is as good a time as any to go index my AToW tweaks threads down in fan rules...

Euphonium

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #76 on: 26 July 2019, 17:53:48 »
I hope they don't pull a Shadowrun 6th edition and gut the system removing all logic and reason for the sake of "Simplifying".

Heh... that's how I felt about Shadowrun 4th edition too...

This is why I'm still running Shadowrun 3E and have no intention to change. I haven't bought a Shadowrun product since 4E, they just lost me.

I'm interested in looking at a new version of a BattleTech RPG but am not sure what it's going to need to do to get me to move on from MW2E.
AToW looked reasonable as a ruleset but nothing jumped out at me and said THIS is why you should switch, and we don't really have any glaring problems with MW2E for the type of games we play.

In the end I guess I'm not the target audience anymore.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #77 on: 26 July 2019, 17:56:03 »
...thought AToW was dead for ages, really. outside of these forums i hardly ever see it and i've never found anyone that plays it in my area. maybe it's just a game that's not fit for the modern gaming world, like paranoia.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #78 on: 26 July 2019, 18:07:37 »
In the end I guess I'm not the target audience anymore.

no offense, but i hope you aren't. the game needs fresh blood more than it needs the old peacekeepers cheered on one more hurrah and as it exists now getting new players onboard is a HARD sell.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #79 on: 26 July 2019, 18:11:30 »
the main issue on the visibility front is that it hasn't been reprinted since 2012 and getting a hardcopy is usually fiscally problematic. the BT rpgs have always hurt for lack of supplements as well. it's hard to sell a tabletop rpg that has received one dedicated physical release (the companion, perhaps the rarest book printed by CGL) to people who are used to quarterly sourcebook / rulebook releases 

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #80 on: 26 July 2019, 18:16:30 »
That's hard to swallow, but reasonable.   :P

I'd hate to follow ColBosch into obscurity here...  xp

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #81 on: 26 July 2019, 18:19:12 »
Paranoia?  I received a new edition of that game just two weeks ago for my birthday...

Euphonium

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #82 on: 26 July 2019, 18:55:07 »
no offense, but i hope you aren't.

None taken  :)

I recognise that I'm getting old & set in my ways.
BT hasn't poisoned the well the way SR did where I'm concerned so I'll try the new rules when they're out. I just don't know yet what they can change that will excite me in a rules mechanics sense. Maybe MW:Destiny will blow me away and take my gaming to a new level, I'd be happy if it did  ;)   Just because I don't know how they could do it doesn't mean that I don't want them to try!
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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #83 on: 26 July 2019, 19:03:08 »
I'm certainly curious enough to look at the new rules, but if they completely abandon the old, I don't know if I'll stay.  Honestly, the clan invasion was the first "betrayal of ideals" then-FASA pulled, and I stuck around anyway.  BattleTech's blend of hard and soft science fiction (fantasy, really, in the latter case) is intriguing.  "We'll see how it goes" is about as far as I'm willing to go at this point.  The original universe had a lot of promise, then suddenly turned left with the clan invasion, but retained enough to keep me interested.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #84 on: 26 July 2019, 19:09:35 »
 :bang: I am a returning player and was just getting comfortable with AToW. Yes there was a steep learning curve to the character creation, but after a couple I got it down.

My biggest problem with a new RPG is more books. It seems like when I think I am getting caught up, something changes. I just got Tech Manual, the last one I was missing to complete my set, and it does not match the others. I know it is a stupid thing, but the set is off.

I know TPTB need to introduce new products to get new players and keep the old ones engaged, and I want that to. I will probably pick up MW:D, and I hope I do not need to learn a new system to play my old game.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #85 on: 26 July 2019, 19:21:55 »
There's nothing stopping anyone from using the old or current system.  It's not like they're going to stop producing AToW supplements once Destiny comes out.  They already stopped doing that a long time ago.

If your group is happy with what they're using, keep using it.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #86 on: 26 July 2019, 20:08:17 »
It seems the company's renewal cycle is slightly out of step with the kind of people they mostly attract.  I really don't know how to fix that...

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #87 on: 26 July 2019, 20:19:43 »
I think part of the issue is the RPG has always been a distant secondary priority. And in all fairness it probably does appeal to a small section of the player base.

Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Way (Tao) to survival or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed"-Sun Tzu

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Xotl

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #88 on: 26 July 2019, 20:23:03 »
And in all fairness it probably does appeal to a small section of the player base.

Which is unfortunate, because to me it's one of the most compelling RPG universes around.  There's years of fun there, thanks to the setting.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #89 on: 26 July 2019, 20:24:42 »
I also view the period between 2001 and 2016 as one of intermittend hiatus. These 15 years have not been kind to the Battletech Universe. It saw major shifts in IP, the whole RPG and miniature market as well as the continuing rise of the digital world, which had been eating away shares of miniature games during the 1990s already.

But right now, everything is more energized. And BT is on a surge.
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