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Author Topic: MechWarrior: Destiny  (Read 59914 times)

Talen5000

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #990 on: 20 February 2020, 08:20:29 »
And there is one thing (I think) that Destiny attempts to do that I wish they would continue...come up with a mapless, abstract method of Mech/Vehicle combat. That should be the only type of vehicular combat introduced in the RPG, and I think 3rd Edition and Destiny are the only RPGs that attempted it.

The problem...in simple terms and as I would see it...is that, to date, there has NOT been a Battletech RPG created, written, released.

What we have had is a hybrid of an RPG with a miniature wargame. Each version simply focuses on those aspects to different degrees and the necessity to accommodate both means compromises that really satisfy noone.

We don't need miniature wargame rules, we don"t need another BattleTroops masquerading as an RPG, we don't need another ruleset for AGoAC or AS.

We need a decent, complete RPG. There is quite a lot in the Companion that should be in the core rulebook and the game does need a decent RPG vehicle ruleset...one that encompasses Mechs but isn't dominated by them.

I know I keep going on about this so apologies.

Having said that, Destiny is taking a step in the right direction....but only a step. The ruleset...as of the Beta...left much to be desired. Even merging it with AS probably wouldn't help. There'd still be too much wargame involved but Destiny is a step in the right direction.

See..I'm not totally against Destiny ;).

Destiny, like other BT RPGs, has its good points and its bad points, some nice concepts that should be integrated into a full BT RPG.

But I still think its a poor solution. Very well made in its way, but not what a BT RPG needs.
« Last Edit: 20 February 2020, 20:41:56 by Talen5000 »
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SteelShrike

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #991 on: 20 February 2020, 16:48:39 »
That's actually very reasonable and some of the fairest critique I've seen on here that doesn't involve subjective bias. Even though I find myself looking forward to Destiny as something fresh and different (compared to previous BT RPGs), I'm also in agreement with what you said.

Dahmin_Toran

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #992 on: 20 February 2020, 20:09:01 »
I would like to see what feedback was incorporated in the "final" draft.

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #993 on: 20 February 2020, 21:31:51 »
I would like to see what feedback was incorporated in the "final" draft.

My guess is that the most changes "if any" you will see in the final draft is some fixes to the mech combat system and proof reading corrections as the game is based off an already existing system "cue".
The Cue system was chosen IMHO because it was already created and was a quick add some mechs and new skills way to put out a new RPG.

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #994 on: 20 February 2020, 23:06:11 »
*snip*
What we have had is a hybrid of an RPG with a miniature wargame. Each version simply focuses on those aspects to different degrees and the necessity to accommodate both means compromises that really satisfy noone.
*snip*
Not "no one", I'm sure.

Talen5000

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #995 on: 21 February 2020, 05:12:14 »
Not "no one", I'm sure.

The game hasn't been in print in (isn't it) 8 years now.
It is on its fourth edition and its a fourth edition with at least three different rulesets, none of which have been satisfactory.
TPTB are waffling about any decision to reprint AToW, as part of the current reprint cycle of main rulebooks.
CGL are releasing Destiny instead.

I'm going to stick with "no-one".

I get that that is a description that is not literally true, but English is an imprecise language in many aspects and the description is a close enough  descriptor for reality.

I get that there are some people who like the system...but the system, by and large isn't popular.

There are a number of reasons for this, which I have discussed before.

And while I know you like this aspect of the game, an RPG is NOT the place to hide a BattleTroops II ruleset. If you describe a game as an RPG, then it needs to be built as an RPG.

And ATOW is not.

The hybrid approach was wrong...it is wrong...it will ALWAYS be wrong. It wastes pages and it requires compromises to the game mechanics which can be detrimental to other aspects of the game. You can add a miniature game to RPGs but it should never be the focus. An RPG game should, first and foremost, BE an RPG.

You didn't expect AeroTech to be an adjunct of the boardgame. Or Succession Wars. Or BattleTroops. Or Battleforce.

The RPG should be the same...influenced by the other games, but designed as an RPG. A self contained RPG with everything an RPG needs as part of the main rule book, rather than sticking critical rules in a companion book.


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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #996 on: 21 February 2020, 05:30:44 »
*snip*
You didn't expect AeroTech to be an adjunct of the boardgame. Or Succession Wars. Or BattleTroops. Or Battleforce.
*snip*
I did, actually.

Speaking in absolutes about what other people think is generally wrong.

Colt Ward

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #997 on: 19 March 2020, 14:10:51 »
Okay, I kept up with some of this back and forth but I left it behind when folks were down to the grit between the systems and meta over CUE vs other.

My question comes at it another way . . .

With the current discouragement of people gathering and finding ways to entertain while still getting the BT fix . . .

Would the Destiny system as put out be a good foundation for doing a online BT RPG set up?

Basically use the Destiny system to tell the story since as I understand it you do not have a set apart GM, maybe FB to run the play sessions discussing events & actions, and when tactical combat rolls around use MM?
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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #998 on: 19 March 2020, 17:46:28 »
Going asynchronous doesn't solve the lack of authoritative GM problem.

Paul

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #999 on: 20 March 2020, 22:10:37 »
Both RPGs equally lend themselves to online play. Generally speaking, RPs benefit from in-person interaction, but there are some benefits to online play. Most typically the ability to easily set a scene with maps or online images.

ActionButler

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1000 on: 21 March 2020, 08:18:40 »
Both RPGs equally lend themselves to online play. Generally speaking, RPs benefit from in-person interaction, but there are some benefits to online play. Most typically the ability to easily set a scene with maps or online images.

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Dahmin_Toran

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1001 on: 29 March 2020, 02:23:45 »
*snip*

You didn't expect AeroTech to be an adjunct of the boardgame. Or Succession Wars. Or BattleTroops. Or Battleforce.

*snip*

Actually all of those, including the RPGs, are adjunct to the boardgame.

Colt Ward

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1002 on: 29 March 2020, 02:43:01 »
Both RPGs equally lend themselves to online play. Generally speaking, RPs benefit from in-person interaction, but there are some benefits to online play. Most typically the ability to easily set a scene with maps or online images.

Since my game store is closed down I thought about trying to get a story going online, still re-reading and digesting the rules.  Its been a long time since I used the RPG stuff to create my mercs so the PCs had more background . . . and longer since WEG's Star Wars games.
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ActionButler

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1003 on: 29 March 2020, 08:59:36 »
I think it just depends on what kind of game you and your group want to run.

If you’re willing to try round-robin storytelling where everyone gets a turn to significantly shape the narrative, Destiny is your system.

If you’d prefer a classic RPG system where one person is the GM and everyone else just reacts, you’ll probably find AToW a better fit. 

Both systems are entirely competent and pretty easy to take online.
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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1004 on: 29 March 2020, 09:15:21 »
Unless they've fixed a good number of problems pointed out in the beta, I don't know about "competent" for Destiny.  If they have, sure.

Asgo

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1005 on: 29 March 2020, 11:38:17 »
...
Both systems are entirely competent and pretty easy to take online.
I think for remote play the deciding factor is more how familar/comfortable the players are with system and the world, less the specific system.
Personally, I would recommend a GM strong system just because my experience from remote, collaborative work is that you end up more productive and coherent if one person takes the lead and guides the interaction. But that may be my own bias and the experience is more from a work scenario than gaming so milage may vary anyway.

Dahmin_Toran

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1006 on: 30 March 2020, 19:38:46 »
Unless they've fixed a good number of problems pointed out in the beta, I don't know about "competent" for Destiny.  If they have, sure.

Destiny is great for online play. The Dice mechanics are very simple and setting up a automated character sheet, especially chargen would be a snap.

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1007 on: 30 March 2020, 20:26:46 »
Dice mechanics and character creation weren't the major flaws I was talking about, but I have my issues with the latter.

ActionButler

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1008 on: 31 March 2020, 08:36:20 »
I think for remote play the deciding factor is more how familar/comfortable the players are with system and the world, less the specific system.
Personally, I would recommend a GM strong system just because my experience from remote, collaborative work is that you end up more productive and coherent if one person takes the lead and guides the interaction. But that may be my own bias and the experience is more from a work scenario than gaming so milage may vary anyway.

Familiarity is probably the number one factor at a time like this.  If the group ends up fighting the game itself, nobody is going to have any fun.

Unless you have a group that is somehow familiar with the Cue system, AToW will always win in a battle of "what game plays more like the RPGs that everyone else will be used to". I guess if your group is more inclined to play rules-lite systems, Destiny might come out as the winner, but since it is still in development, it obviously has some bugs to work out. 

Then again, even with all of the free time most of us now have, some people just aren't going to want to fight with AToW's character creation system, which presents a huge problem unless your group is willing to play pregen characters. 

Neither system is perfect.  AToW is the closer option to a classic RPG, but has an unnecessarily complicated starting point.  Destiny is much easier to start, but may end up being much more difficult to keep going unless everyone is on-board with taking part in the GM role.  I guess you could adapt either game to your group.  You could use Destiny's character generation and then just run it like a normal RPG. Or, like I said, you could use AToW's archetype characters and just jump into the game. 

Honestly, even though both games are perfectly viable options, I still miss MW 2nd edition. I'm well-and-truly kicking myself for getting rid of my old rulebook. 
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Colt Ward

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1009 on: 31 March 2020, 13:58:43 »
To be honest, I figured most folks who might play would have the Destiny beta so it would be easy for everyone to reference rules without people having to take photos of books to share or type out sections when discussing what might happen.  So it was mostly a common frame of reference, and then it sounded like it might be easier to accomplish online by going that route.
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KennyHass

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1010 on: 12 May 2020, 13:34:57 »
Is it possible to play MWD without cues and run with one GM as normal RPG?

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1011 on: 12 May 2020, 13:37:24 »
Is it possible to play MWD without cues and run with one GM as normal RPG?

Yes, and it's covered in the rulebook.
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KennyHass

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1012 on: 12 May 2020, 13:59:35 »
Yes, and it's covered in the rulebook.
Great. I'll check it when I got a rulebook. Thank you.

Dahmin_Toran

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1013 on: 15 May 2020, 12:56:53 »
Is it possible to play MWD without cues and run with one GM as normal RPG?

I think I would use Cues as a +1 bonus if you could use it in a scene.

KennyHass

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #1014 on: 15 May 2020, 22:07:44 »
I think I would use Cues as a +1 bonus if you could use it in a scene.
Interesting. I think that would make the game more heroic and meant to follow a cues.
« Last Edit: 15 May 2020, 22:15:25 by KennyHass »

 

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