Author Topic: MotW: Blackjack  (Read 46719 times)

JadeHellbringer

  • I just work here, man.
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 22079
  • Third time this week!
MotW: Blackjack
« on: 06 August 2019, 10:56:06 »


Ugh, even the artwork is sad. So many lost limbs...

Some Mechs simply earn the term 'legend' from the moment the prototype walks off the test room floor for the first time. Hallowed machines with great abilities and (eventually) extensive combat records to cause their names to be spoken in hushed tones over drinks for centuries to come. Marauder. Archer. Mad Cat. Atlas. Targe. The list goes on. Others may not have seemed like much when devised, but have earned a name for themselves with tough fighting over the years, like the Centurion, the Vulture, the Valkyrie.

And sometimes you get a machine that no matter how hard it gets used, it just never really earns the respect it probably deserves. Today we'll look at one of them and see if it's as bad as its reputation traditionally claims it to be, the Blackjack.

Now, first thing's first. This article will cover the Blackjack, but NOT the BJ-2O Omnimech version that debuted in the late 3050s. That machine is different enough (and has enough configurations) to warrant its own article, one of which I believe is still in the archives here. This is going to go long anyway, people, adding a whole different Mech and over half a dozen Omni variants won't help that cause. If you need to find info on the Omnimech, it won't be here.

That aside, what we do have here is a fairly homely little 45-ton machine designed in theory as a fire support unit. The BJ-1 is one of those ideas that works really well in the imagination of a Battletech fan, standing tall over a battlefield and chattering autocannon fire down into the grueling front lines, but in gameplay... Well, more on that later. The 180-rated power plant provides a stately 4/6 movement speed, abysmally slow compared to similar-sized machines like the Phoenix Hawk, but leaving lots of room for other equipment. The addition of four jump jets means the Blackjack can scale hills and such quickly to gain good firing positions, always a good thing in a fire support unit (see: Catapult), and just as importantly be able to hop away to safety if its position is threatened. So long as you don't use it to chase down the enemy, 4/6/4 is fine for a machine in this role.

The armor is remarkably tough little shell, far more capable of protecting the Mech than one might expect. A PPC won't break the armor on any limb or front torso location- they'll all even still have a little left over. That's handy, particularly since the intended use of a Blackjack is to hang back away from where most weapons will reliably reach in reply anyway- so it won't take much fire to begin with, and what it does see, it can survive. One can't ask for more than that.

Well, actually they can, because when we reach the weapon loadout we find there's a problem. The AC/2 is a neat idea in theory- a small, rapidly-chattering cannon roaring at its target, peppering them with a stream of shells at ranges they can barely see the attacker at... but, if you've ever played Battletech, you're probably aware of how underwhelming this thing really is. Two points of damage. TWO. There's good sides- yes, the range is ludicrous, longer than any other non-artillery weapon in its day, so you really can keep someone under harassing fire at a point where they can't really respond. And at 45 rounds per ton of ammo, you can afford to take wild shots all you like. But at the end of the day, the Blackjack invested twelve tons of a 45-ton Mech (plus one more ton for ammo) into two 2-point hits per turn. There's no way to make that look good, people- if you're using a Blackjack as your fire support, your opponent is going to enjoy his open-field advance. Luckily, in-close the Blackjack tacks on four medium lasers, mounted coaxial with the cannons. That's a solid mid-to-short range punch, though heat gets a little dicey if you use all four and move. The Mech does include an extra heat sink in addition to the ten in the engine as-standard, but repeated use of the lasers (particularly if the jump jets are used as well) can make things a little roasty. Luckily, there's no reason to worry about heat on a Blackjack, other than the AC/2 ammunition parked in the center tors... hmmmm. Do you owe money to one of your Mechwarriors? Put him in a BJ-1 and watch your money troubles vanish.

Now, remember that I said the Blackjack wasn't viewed well by the Inner Sphere's militaries? Yeah, that's because it sucks. But following a victory by the FedSuns over the DCMS on Xhosha VII in 3022, the FedSuns began looking closer at the Blackjack. Can't imagine why- with two autocannons, one expects Hanse had a poster of one on his bedroom ceiling to begin with. But, this victory prompted the Davions to begin tinkering with their Blackjacks, and the results were... interesting. The first is the BJ-1DC, which drops the jump jets (hmmm) to gain a pair of small lasers and a heat sink. If you're turning your screen sideways to see the hidden genius in doing this, let me save you the trouble- if you owe one of your Mechwarriors a LOT of money, put them in this lemon. There's no good rationale for this thing, period- the added heat dissipation isn't bad, but the loss of the jump jets is crippling, and the addition of small lasers is just bizarre- if your Blackjack is in small laser range, things have gone pear-shaped and those lasers aren't going to save you, particularly since you can't jump away from danger anymore.

Davion's next experiment is slightly less get-drunk-worthy. BJ-1DB removes the autocannons, to the surprise of Davion techs everywhere, and tacks on a pair of large lasers in their place. Marik fans are fanning themselves. To accomplish this, the AC/2s, their ammo, a ton of armor, and two of the medium lasers are all sacrificed. That allows for more heat sinks, because oh man do you need them now. Surprisingly, firing both heavy lasers and walking produces zero heat, a rarity in this era (and thus making it a pretty nice Mech to teach new players on, hi, people who just bought the box set!) Luckily, the torso bomb is gone at least. If you have to use a Blackjack in the 4th SW era, this is a good choice- it isn't really fire support anymore, but it proves remarkably handy as an urban warfare machine (hop in, fire, hop away).

Likely extinct by the time the 1st Succession War began, by the way, was a prototype model that seems so different that it hardly registers as the same design. The BJ-1X has a much larger 225-rated engine for a 5/8 movement, but no jump jets. The cannons are gone, in favor of a pair of flamers. Which... the damage is the same, but the range is absurdly cut down. But, you have more speed to advance on your target, and infantry are best served medium-well. A few extra heat sinks round out this oddball, but chances are 1) you'll never see one and 2) if you do, you won't really care. If you want something that zips around lighting things on fire, get a Firestarter.

The final variant in the 4th Succession War has a murky history. It's the BJ-3 (why?), produced by the Capellan Confederation as they fought off the FedSuns hordes. The most notable change is the swapping of the autocannons for a pair of Ceres PPCs. Good lord- that's neat and all, but your pilot will look like a creme brulee by the time... wait. Double heat sinks? In THIS era? Yes Virginia, the Cappies had acquired some spiffy new tech from the past, by way of questionable methods (one suspects the Steiners and Davions should check their inventories...) The Mech is a remarkable one, then, for a couple of reasons- first, because it's the first Mech in a few hundred years to use double heat sinks in its construction rather than one-off field mods and the like. And second because it's remarkably GOOD. I mean, it runs warm if you're not careful obviously, particularly since the extra heat sink from earlier models was removed (along with the ammo bin) to make up the extra weight of the new guns, but as a bracket-fire machine this is superb for its era. St. ives ended up with most of these machines postwar, and continued to build the variant afterwards (and rightly so!) for their own forces.

So, the Blackjack got a little love during the 4th SW era. Guess what happened to Blackjacks when the Clans arrived a few years later though? AC/2s against Mechs like the Thor and Ryoken. Yeah, that must have been pretty funny for the invaders. Clearly things needed to improve if the Blackjack was going to stand against the new threat, and a new variant based on the BJ-1DB concept rose to meet the challenge. The BJ-2 used the newly-rediscovered ER Large Laser as the core of its combat abilities, with one in each arm. These were the best of both worlds, combining the power of the large lasers on its parent with range at least comparable overall to the autocannons of the original BJ-1. A switch to double-strength heat sinks (see below) made for a cool-running (ish) machine that could lay down fire efficiently when needed. Oddly, the medium lasers were replaced with a quartet of Streak SRM-2 packs, sharing one ton of ammo. Now, a note on this one is that it has eleven double heat sinks, so after firing the lasers for a while it does warm up a bit. However, early versions of TRO:3050 (such as the authors) show this as eleven SINGLE heat sinks, and that's just... there aren't words. Do NOT use the wrong record sheet, people! A corrected BJ-2 is a joy to run, one of the hidden gems of its era.

The BJ-4 pops up in the Civil War era, and it's got even more new tricks. A light fusion engine is installed, freeing up plenty of weight. The armor is switched to light Ferro-Fibrous, but half a ton is removed (cancelling out, roughly), and adds CASE to the ammo bins. This baby-Jagermech then installs a light AC/5 in each arm, mounted with a paired ER medium laser. If you're into special munitions for autocannons, this has potential. Four tons of ammo (!!!) mean you can flavor your shots however you wish all day long, and the targeting computer tacked on means those shots are more likely to hit. Generally I'm not a fan of Mechs like this, but there's some fun to be had here if you're into the Department of Dirty Tricks. Alone, this is a waste of time, but as part of a group one can find some great fun to be had, supporting your friends with precision shots and the like.

It remains for us to cover one last Blackjack, and for that we look past the Jihad into the Dark Age, where apparently the BJ-2 is still used. The BJ-2r strips weapons from that Mech to gain a pair of Re-Engineered Large Lasers. Your opinion of these weapons likely varies considerably, dear readers- I myself am not a huge fan, since they're very situational on whether they're useful or not- otherwise they're just warmer and slightly-stronger large lasers for no real gain. A single medium laser pokes from the left torso. Note that the machine sinks all the heat from a run and firing both big guns, which is handy for sure.

So, a Mech that earns little love in-universe, tends to be overlooked by many players- but does it deserve that reputation? Well, yeah. The 3025 cannon variants are pretty bad, honestly. The BJ-2 is a lovely machine with a few warts to work out, and the 3 is a fantastic machine that likely is rare to the point of unicorn-status during the 4th SW in even elite units. Not one variant is particularly dominant over similar-sized machines in-general, to the point that the author found himself regularly wishing to trade in the Blackjack in favor of a Whitworth or Vindicator instead. It's slow, tough, and either hits hard at mid ranges or hits lightly at long ranges (depending on the version), and in no situation is it all that terrifying. Used intelligently it can be a very handy addition to your army, but if you're shopping for fire support Mechs it's best to keep on looking generally.


CHECKERS! CHECKERS FOR ALL!
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27382
  • Need a hand?
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #1 on: 06 August 2019, 11:13:44 »
I like the Blackjack.  The BJ-1 and derivatives are pretty blah, but the BJ-2 and 3 are both loads of fun.

First time I ran a BJ-2, I helped a Zeus win a dispute with a Thor over who was the real god of thunder.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9131
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #2 on: 06 August 2019, 11:51:06 »
Blackjack Omni article for those interested, by marauder648: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,48989.0.html

Thanks for the quick article Hellbie! Good read.

I like the Blackjack. Rifleman/JagerMech lite!
Ok, the original is not stellar, but it does come with four medium lasers, hard to argue with those in 3025.
Was hilariously good in MWO though. Just chipped away enemy armor, scaring them into cover, and/or stealing kills from friendlies by landing the killing blows.

Don't care for BJ-1 derivatives or its prototype. The latter is just sad, and the derivatives sacrifice armor. OK, twin LLs and a lot of heat sinks is kinda good but... eh.

BJ-2 is neat. Streaks are a tad weird choice perhaps, but four Streak packs with one ton ammo is a Streak armament done right, too many 'Mechs go for one or two Streaks with one or even TWO tons of ammo.

BJ-3 is good. Mini-Warhammer.

BJ-4... uh, OK? Maybe not bad but a bit dubious. For its time, it is awfully slow. I suppose it works as a militia 'Mech.

The REL version... 9 damage and defeating special armors at 15 hexes with -1 bonus to hit, not bad, but we're talking about a 45 tonner with poor mobility and mediocre armor for its time. The advanced lasers make it a dubious addition to militias, yet it feels too limited to be frontline material.

JadeHellbringer

  • I just work here, man.
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 22079
  • Third time this week!
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #3 on: 06 August 2019, 11:57:46 »
You know, it occurred to me that while the introduction of the Omni version probably stole a lot of the thunder away from modding Blackjacks, we never did see a model with twin RAC-2s, and that surprises me. Not sure it can even be made to work (I'll have to play around with it sometime), but it seems like an ideal platform for the job- where the Jagermech was a textbook perfect showcase for the RAC-5, it seems like RAC-2's ideal debut platform would have been old BJ-1s. Dropping all six weapons gives you the tonnage, but much more would be needed to get the ammo on board (and I'm not sure an old Blackjack would be worth installing an XL engine).

Still, intriguing thought. A version trying LBX guns as a light AA platform would be amusing as well.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9131
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #4 on: 06 August 2019, 12:10:47 »
Yeah.. the same happened with the Firestarter. Two 'Mechs with arguably superior Omni versions, why buy the original anymore?
All Blackjack variants are St. Ives or Davion ones, the only major users. And the Cappies got rid of theirs eventually after inheriting bunch from the St. Ives Compact.

Me, i'd refit the original with LB-2Xs for better golden BBs and cheap AA platform.

Paired RAC/2s are possible but they require XLFE plus endo-steel, some kind of upgraded armor, or reduced laser armament to free enough weight. LB-5Xs would be a bit easier to fit because of the reduced ammo consumption, or is one ton of RAC/2 ammo per gun enough?
« Last Edit: 06 August 2019, 12:14:47 by Empyrus »

Kidd

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3535
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #5 on: 06 August 2019, 12:34:13 »
I suspect the BJ-1 is loved more for its quad medium laser battery than anything else. In the era it was played, this meant it could even fight the 55 Trio provided it could get in close. And it would have been quite good at swatting Bugs.

The others are pretty hohum though the BJ-2 is decent compared to what other Mechs got out of the Helm grab bag. The BJ-4 is clearly inviting players to abuse Precision ammo for -3 craziness, and I love it for that - it has moxie, if nothing else.
« Last Edit: 06 August 2019, 12:36:15 by Kidd »

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 20154
  • Cap’n-Generalissimost
    • Master Unit List
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #6 on: 06 August 2019, 12:40:13 »
Always liked the BJ-3 since it appeared in Battlepack 4th Succession War. Heck, a lot of those variants were good

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

Generalstoner

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 88
  • "Iron Within. Iron Without."
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #7 on: 06 August 2019, 12:56:28 »
The 3025 Blackjack for me was always a fun mech to use but I never had any luck with it.  A Jagermech throws more weight at range and even though the 4 medium lasers can cause a piloting skill roll, which an Enforcer can only do if it’s small laser hits, it is just fragile.  I would prefer a Whitworth over the Blackjack in 3025.

That being said the 3050 is a gem.  The twin ER large lasers provide excellent sniping and the 4 streak 2’s make for a nice critical finder later on in the game.

Nice article!
Twelve Highlanders and a Bagpipe make a Rebellion.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 29684
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #8 on: 06 August 2019, 13:50:10 »
It remains for us to cover one last Blackjack, and for that we look past the Jihad into the Dark Age, where apparently the BJ-2 is still used. The BJ-2r strips weapons from that Mech to gain a pair of Re-Engineered Large Lasers. Your opinion of these weapons likely varies considerably, dear readers- I myself am not a huge fan, since they're very situational on whether they're useful or not- otherwise they're just warmer and slightly-stronger large lasers for no real gain. A single medium laser pokes from the left torso. Note that the machine sinks all the heat from a run and firing both big guns, which is handy for sure.

If your in the crowd that plays as 'majority of mechs in the IS are mediums, then lights' then a BJ-2r is not a bad option and a good escort in Apollo/Whitworth/Dervish/fire support lance.  For a 15 hex range, 9 damage, -1TH, and a special ability its a solid package against second string meds & lights . . . is it going to be able to fight off a Legionnaire that rushed to 5 hexes?  Maybe not . . . but a Enforcer -5D?  Blakist Chimera? Malak/Preta?  Rook?  Hatchetman?
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

jymset

  • Infinita Navitas & RecGuide Developer
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1556
  • the one and only
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #9 on: 06 August 2019, 13:57:45 »
Goodness, finally a Blackjack!

Thank you so much for the article, Hellbie, for getting this out the door. I'd been pushing this one away from me ever since 2011 and it'd become so much of a Damocles sword that it is partially to blame for my general silence on the forums these days. :-\

And then you up and do it and get everything out of the way. All the chaff, everything that muddies the main point one has to make about the Blackjack. The main one, the big one, this:

Despite its initial in-universe reputation, the Blackjack is simply the best 'Mech ton for ton in the entire debut Technical Readout of BattleTech. Yes!


So, a Mech that earns little love in-universe, tends to be overlooked by many players- but does it deserve that reputation? Well, yeah.

Uh...

:o

:blank:

xp

Ok, so I agree with most things in your article, and think you've written it better and more comprehensively than I ever could. :bow:

I just disagree - very strongly - with the evaluation of the basic BJ-1. Looking at this thread, it seems I'm in the minority.

But let me just put this out there. Take a modest 45-ton 'Mech, add to it not one but two of the singularly most inefficient weapons that eat up almost a third of the total mass to do a royal 4 points of damage. How can one possibly salvage a start like that? By adding a quad of what amounts to a stupidly over-powered weapon, the not-so-humble medium laser. And making sure the overall package is golden.

The quad-ML + 4jj package is what makes a Catapult decidedly "dual-purpose" rather than simply "fire support". Nobody would argue against the Catapult being a very well-rounded package.

The BJ-1 fields 8.5 tons of armor, which puts it between the Vindicator (noted as a tough trooper) and the P-Hawk (which, other than the weak head, is not known to be under-armored). Considering that, say, the 60-tonners of 3025 had between 7.5 and 9 tons (deliberately discounting the outlier Dragon with its 10 tons), that is really impressive. I deliberately looked at the 3025 line-up, because the BJ-1 exemplifies how I view BattleMechs: as children of their era.

Any unit needs to hold up in the era it is placed in. When I view the BJ-1, I view it for what it does in 3025. And it does something absolutely unique:

With the BJ-1's 4 ML, it has the second-best (close-range) punch of the 3025 medium line-up, behind the Hunchback. With its jump jets, it gains a huge defensive bonus compared to that oh-so-vaunted unit. (The Enforcer has been brought up, but at close ranges, I would argue 4x ML are much more reliable in causing constant damage. Further addendum, seeing GreekFire just posted a Jenner article: that light 'Mech is frankly terrifying.)

With the BJ-1's 2 AC/2, it gains something utterly unique. Added to a unit with good armor, great close-range punch, and defensive mobility, one suddenly has no draw-back to lugging around that cluster of inefficiency. With no pressure to perform, the dual insult points suddenly become nothing but a bonus. The only other BattleMechs fielding AC/2s in TRO 3025 are, off the top of my head, the Vulcan - where the weapon is more a fluff piece than anything else - and the JagerMech, which is a huge pile of fail on account of compounding what should be mutually exclusive design decisions. So the "bonus" AC/2s come into their own on the BJ-1, stinging the opponents at either unparalleled range or with ludicrous accuracy. No range to-hit penalty at 8 hexes? Yes please.

The autocannons should be fired whenever possible, unless heat becomes utterly catastrophic. With 11 HS and jj, in a 3025 context, the BJ-1 is sensationally well protected against the adverse effects of the heat scale. If one can make a Rifleman work (and it's not very difficult to), the BJ-1 is a walk in the park. (Side note on the MechWarrior that money is owed to ^-^ : in a 3025 context, the CT is the safest place to stow ammo, no matter how catastrophic the effects of an explosion. Just ask the MAD-3R ^-^ ^-^ )

What good does that do? Dual AC/2s won't wear out your enemy's armor in a hurry. But dual AC/2s that hit at ranges where said enemy can't shoot back or that hit when his to-hit numbers are impossible will wear out your enemy's patience in a hurry. And when he makes that first mistake, you have all those lasers waiting for him.

And that is why I love the BJ-1 so dearly. It is objectively good as a trooper. And it offers something that is genuinely unique in its time.

This in turn is what killed my attempts to write a proper BJ-1 article. With 3050, it all goes away. The Clan ER LL laughs at the standard AC/2. The WVR-7M laughs at the BJ-2 (which drops the ML bank just in ways of insult). The 3025 "variants" are a travesty. The BJ-3 is an anachronism. The BJ-4 is tragic, it betrays old strengths and ends up being a very lowly and overly expensive unimpressive light trooper; I would literally go back to the BJ-1. The BJ-2r was created by yours truly in ways of out-of-universe statement: I love the Blackjack. Or at least I did once. In its time period, we should all love the Blackjack: the one and only BJ-1.


Again, thank you for the great article, Jade Hellbringer. You did what I could not.
On CGL writing: Caught between a writer's block and a Herb place. (cray)

Nicest writing compliment ever: I know [redacted] doesn't like continuity porn, but I do, and you sir, write some great continuity porn! (MadCapellan)

3055 rocks! Did so when I was a n00b, does so now.

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9131
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #10 on: 06 August 2019, 14:03:30 »
Whatcha mean with that "BJ-3 is an anachronism"?


jymset

  • Infinita Navitas & RecGuide Developer
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1556
  • the one and only
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #11 on: 06 August 2019, 14:30:03 »
BattlePack: 4th SW. Easy to be a rock star when nobody else uses the biggest game changers ever introduced to BattleTech. Since then, the hypothetical BJ-3X may be a more appropriate approximation.

Also, not being entirely serious in that paragraph. O:-) Of course, as a BT unit, the BJ-3 is a keeper.
On CGL writing: Caught between a writer's block and a Herb place. (cray)

Nicest writing compliment ever: I know [redacted] doesn't like continuity porn, but I do, and you sir, write some great continuity porn! (MadCapellan)

3055 rocks! Did so when I was a n00b, does so now.

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9131
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #12 on: 06 August 2019, 14:32:28 »
Ah, i see now. Single heat sinks for everyone but this one guy...

Seems that the BJ-3X is kinda illegal unit though, unable to be constructed with current rules.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27382
  • Need a hand?
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #13 on: 06 August 2019, 14:47:25 »
If your in the crowd that plays as 'majority of mechs in the IS are mediums, then lights' then a BJ-2r is not a bad option and a good escort in Apollo/Whitworth/Dervish/fire support lance.  For a 15 hex range, 9 damage, -1TH, and a special ability its a solid package against second string meds & lights . . . is it going to be able to fight off a Legionnaire that rushed to 5 hexes?  Maybe not . . . but a Enforcer -5D?  Blakist Chimera? Malak/Preta?  Rook?  Hatchetman?

With Re-Engineered Lasers, it seems to be more of a counter to Draconis Combine mechs that use Hardened and Reflective Armor, like the Rokurokubi, Wendigo, Hitotsume Kozo, and Shiro.  Of those mechs, it creates an effective bubble of death against the Roku, but against the others it's likely to be sniped or simply overrun.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8152
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #14 on: 06 August 2019, 14:56:27 »
It might be worth mentioning that the famous battle that helped to redeem the Blackjack was fought against Mercer Ravannion and his "bug swarm" tactics. Unlike most mechs, massed barrages of AC-2s would actually be pretty effective against Wasps and Stingers, who don't have the armor to simply endure the hits they take.

Seems that the BJ-3X is kinda illegal unit though, unable to be constructed with current rules.

How so? It uses prototype double heatsinks, which can be mixed with singles.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Firesprocket

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3096
  • 3601 S Broad St. Phila. PA 19148
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #15 on: 06 August 2019, 15:01:07 »
With Re-Engineered Lasers, it seems to be more of a counter to Draconis Combine mechs that use Hardened and Reflective Armor, like the Rokurokubi, Wendigo, Hitotsume Kozo, and Shiro.  Of those mechs, it creates an effective bubble of death against the Roku, but against the others it's likely to be sniped or simply overrun.
Ogre beat me to it.  The value of ReLas is based completely on whether or not you are going to fight an opponent that it has value against.  Snow Ravens also have FL and since they are not on the same speaking terms they once were that would be valuable weapon in any fight against them.  I haven't gone out of my way to play mechs with ReLas, but the -1 to hit makes the weapon a bit better general use, rather than total crap (I've used them on a Templar and Sagittaire).

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9131
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #16 on: 06 August 2019, 15:06:32 »
How so? It uses prototype double heatsinks, which can be mixed with singles.
Yeah, sure, but can you have 7 engine singles and 3 DHS outside the engine? BJ-3X has total of 10 heat sinks only. Were it 10 singles + some prototype freezers, it'd be no issue.
Though i suppose it could be that MML simply doesn't allow for this even if it is rules-compliant.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 29684
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #17 on: 06 August 2019, 15:15:48 »
Sure Firesprocket, but I am not really sure when it came out b/c I do not think it was listed.  The other 'r' refits were Jihad era so its why I went with comparable.  Yeah, if you place it against the latest cutting edge design it might not function too well, but against something that is also a refit older design then it should do well.  For one thing in the Dark Ages, its going to be pretty solid hunting battle armor like the Kishi and Zou on the Drac front.

And yeah, that was my point . . . its a lot like the Clan's ER Pulse, except they get an even bigger range boost than the Clan weapons get.  IMO its a toss up between them and the X-Pulse which is what they should be compared with . . . the XPulse weights in at 7t just like the IS LPL for the same ranges & damage but 14 heat vs the LReL with 8t but 9 heat.  So if you can spare the extra ton but not the heat, and a -1 instead of -2 works . . . compared to the old LL, yeah . . . 3t & 1 heat more for the same range, but 1 more damage & the -1THN.

I have only used the Spider with the LReL, mostly b/c I viewed it the same way as the Plasma Rifle.  15 Hex max range is not something you put on a slow unit after 3050 . . . but I can dismiss it in a med that is going to be a escort and second stringer.  Do I want a new Penetrator that replaces the ERLL with LReL?  Not hardly . . .
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

JadeHellbringer

  • I just work here, man.
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 22079
  • Third time this week!
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #18 on: 06 August 2019, 15:31:06 »
It might be worth mentioning that the famous battle that helped to redeem the Blackjack was fought against Mercer Ravannion and his "bug swarm" tactics. Unlike most mechs, massed barrages of AC-2s would actually be pretty effective against Wasps and Stingers, who don't have the armor to simply endure the hits they take.

While it's true that Wasps don't react well to two-point hits for very long, their ability to rapidly close the distance with a Blackjack means that the number of two-point hits you pepper the target with will likely not be many before it's in your grill. Now, the BJ-1 has those medium lasers going for it (and flippy-arms, which is never bad against a bug Mech!), but the Wasp is now battering your armor as well. You have a lot more of it, of course, but damage is damage- and in Ravannion-style tactics, it's weakened areas for the other, oh, eleventy-hundred bugs to exploit even if you quickly kill that Wasp.

That's not to say the Blackjack is useless against such an enemy- far from it- but it actually works better as a harasser against heavier targets that might not be able to close as quickly. Consider the Orion, an old favorite of mine- while it can reply with the LRM rack, it can't really PURSUE a Blackjack- they have the same movement curve, and while the Orion can charge the Blackjack's position at a run (while the smaller machine can't back away as fast), the jump jets do make up for that in spades- and jumping heavies in that era are pretty rare. Two point hits won't do much to an Orion, true- unless you get lucky, you'll be picking at his armor for a long time. But you can do so from a position of near-godlike status- he can't really hurt you back if you're careful. (In which case he's one of the crappier gods, I guess? I lost the metaphor.)

Really, the absolute best thing a Blackjack does? It makes for a very handy valet, picking at vehicles until their motive systems fail. Park a Demolisher at long ranges, ignore it while you work on the Manticore next to it, etc.- those cannons stand just as good of a chance of getting motive hits as anything else does. Pick away at those vehicles, and send in artillery or infantry to finish the job once they can't escape.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27382
  • Need a hand?
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #19 on: 06 August 2019, 15:52:46 »
AC 2s are also good at keeping VTOLs honest.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 29684
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #20 on: 06 August 2019, 16:37:20 »
I also like the rapid fire AC rule for old 3025 designs, keeps them competitive IMO.  AC/2 is also a great one for Prec ammo . . . sure, its just 2 points but things that go that fast usually do not want to get hit- like Harasser SRM Platforms.  The nice thing with Prec ammo over Std is that you have 11 turns of fire . . . then you are left with the MLs and no ammo bomb.

I was sort of surprised to see the BJ-1 was not mentioned as the HBS starter mech.  Its a pretty solid machine in the game and the AC/2s are great for tapping at vehicles which is what you face in the beginning.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Firesprocket

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3096
  • 3601 S Broad St. Phila. PA 19148
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #21 on: 06 August 2019, 16:53:10 »
I was sort of surprised to see the BJ-1 was not mentioned as the HBS starter mech.  Its a pretty solid machine in the game and the AC/2s are great for tapping at vehicles which is what you face in the beginning.

Well for starters, little if any mechs in the MOTW, deal with HBS details.  Your and my thoughts on that may very.  In either environment your throw weight on AC-2s and how effective they are at their job is based on what is in front of you to distract you from the gnat like shots.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 29684
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #22 on: 06 August 2019, 16:54:52 »
This is, I think, the first mech from the game that has come up and previous MotW dealt with MW3, MW4, MCG, and I want to say MechAssault.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Fallen_Raven

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3733
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #23 on: 06 August 2019, 17:46:55 »
The BJ-1 can sustain harassment fire much longer than most fire support in its era, and is quite dangerous up close to boot. It can ping threats like hovers or fighters so that they never get to the missile boats, but it still provides a significant threat to light 'mechs that rush in close. Its the kind of 'mech that does good work as part of a company or larger, but doesn't really hold up as a solo act.
Subtlety is for those who lack a bigger gun.

The Battletech Forums: The best friends you'll ever fire high-powered weaponry at.-JadeHellbringer


Greatclub

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3134
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #24 on: 06 August 2019, 17:59:37 »
The thing about the AC/2 is that they're guilt free. You have a LRM20  or gauss and two targets, one a seven and the other a ten to hit. Barring exceptional circumstances, you have to go for the seven.

The two ac2 on the blackjack? I have no problem betting on the bad odds on the chance I hit an open location, hover skirt or rotor blade. I'd prefer other mechs, but If I roll  a blackjack I'm content enough.

If playing in a game that contains aerospace or aircraft, load flack. It doesn't hurt your output much groundside, but brings the pain up top enough to make up for it.
« Last Edit: 13 August 2019, 00:24:34 by Greatclub »

Wrangler

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25833
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #25 on: 07 August 2019, 05:17:50 »
I do like the Blackjack a lot. I think it was underrated but I think it was supposed to be a Hidden Gem that you had to know the potential. I do think it takes a smart user of the Blackjack know what to do with it and stuff like that. I totally agree with everything above that the sniping ability of the Blackjack specially during the 3025 air out makes it quite annoying for those people who can't actually reach it.

I wish the people who were doing the variants and updates for the Civil War era Mechs had thought of the RAC/2 variant for the BJ.

Once again, great job with article Jadehellbringer!
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

mbear

  • Stood Far Back When The Gravitas Was Handed Out
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4507
    • Tower of Jade
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #26 on: 07 August 2019, 07:25:10 »
Some Mechs simply earn the term 'legend' from the moment the prototype walks off the test room floor for the first time. Hallowed machines with great abilities and (eventually) extensive combat records to cause their names to be spoken in hushed tones over drinks for centuries to come. Marauder. Archer. Mad Cat. Atlas. Targe. The list goes on. Others may not have seemed like much when devised, but have earned a name for themselves with tough fighting over the years, like the Centurion, the Vulture, the Valkyrie.

Great list of 'Mechs. You only left out the Mjolnir.  ;D

You know, it occurred to me that while the introduction of the Omni version probably stole a lot of the thunder away from modding Blackjacks, we never did see a model with twin RAC-2s, and that surprises me. Not sure it can even be made to work (I'll have to play around with it sometime), but it seems like an ideal platform for the job- where the Jagermech was a textbook perfect showcase for the RAC-5, it seems like RAC-2's ideal debut platform would have been old BJ-1s. Dropping all six weapons gives you the tonnage, but much more would be needed to get the ammo on board (and I'm not sure an old Blackjack would be worth installing an XL engine).

Just played around with it in SSW, and you can get the RACs and a ton of ammo in there if you drop all weapons like you said. You can also drop a heat sink and provide each RAC with a ton of ammunition. (For giggles I've just removed the RACs and installed four Light AC/2s and two tons ammo, but a 40 ton SRM-4 seems like a waste.) The LB 2-X swap is even easier and lets you keep the medium lasers.




You know the Blackjack might do really well if paired with an Enforcer. The Enforcer's AC and large laser allow for hole punching and the Blackjack's AC/2s do long range critseeking. They even have similar movement profiles. For that matter, pair it with a JagerMech for even more long range AC/2 action.
« Last Edit: 07 August 2019, 07:40:00 by mbear »
Be the Loremaster:

Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your BT experience. Now what? (Thanks Sartis!)

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9910
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #27 on: 07 August 2019, 08:52:07 »
Always liked the look of the Blackjack.

I could never find the use for the BJ-1, it's what you get if you can't afford a Rifleman much like the Whitworth is a poor man's Catapult. Dakka fans still like it because anything with auto-canons. I can see it as a back water militia mech as a cheap fire support mech, teamed up with other chap mechs but that's about it.

Then you have the Large Laser Blackjacks, now mechs have always served me well. The Blackjack is just a great Large Laser platform for it's weight. Not the best mech but still very effective.

Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #28 on: 07 August 2019, 09:12:35 »
BattlePack: 4th SW. Easy to be a rock star when nobody else uses the biggest game changers ever introduced to BattleTech. Since then, the hypothetical BJ-3X may be a more appropriate approximation.

Also, not being entirely serious in that paragraph. O:-) Of course, as a BT unit, the BJ-3 is a keeper.
Even by 3050, paired peepers on a 45 tonner is respectable.  It's enough to make heavies take notice and it's a beast against lights.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

garhkal

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6899
Re: MotW: Blackjack
« Reply #29 on: 07 August 2019, 14:06:55 »
I like the Blackjack.  The BJ-1 and derivatives are pretty blah, but the BJ-2 and 3 are both loads of fun.

First time I ran a BJ-2, I helped a Zeus win a dispute with a Thor over who was the real god of thunder.
I've always liked the figure, but the mech itself, especially its initial version, the BJ1, was always underwhelming.  Then we get into the variants..  The BJ1dc, was always a "HU", who designed this..  A drunk monkey?
The 1DB i often had good success with..  The paired larges, worked well for me.
The 1X and the -3 versions i never even saw..
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

 

Register