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Author Topic: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W  (Read 901 times)

cawest

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back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« on: 27 August 2019, 23:15:04 »
I am writing a fan fic and someone brought up the ARC-2W.  about all I can find, is that it was a  trademark subvariant for the Wolf's Dragoons.  But were did they get the idea for it?  any help would be great. 

Maelwys

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #1 on: 28 August 2019, 00:13:35 »
That's pretty much all there is to it. Dragoons had a variant of the Archer that they used. IIRC it was rumored that they modified/built them on their orbital station at first.

Frabby

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #2 on: 28 August 2019, 02:49:48 »
It was "manufactured" at their Hephaestos mobile space station, but according to the Dragoons themselves (in Wolves on the Border iirc) the station was more a refit or maintenance facility than an actual factory. I take that to read they couldn't produce the components (fusion engine, gyro, etc.) there, but what they could do was take Archer skeletons and rebuild them to ARC-2W standard.
Jaime Wolf himself told Minobu Tetsuhara that all Archers among Wolf's Dragoons were of this signature variant.

The ARC-2W assembly line died along with the entire Hephaestus Station in January 3028.

It's noteworthy that according to the MUL, the ARC-2W refit was only introduced in 3010 whereas the Dragoons had arrived in the IS in 3005 already. By 3010 they had ended their contract with House Davion and had moved on to serve House Liao, fighting Marik forces in aggressive campaigns. I seem to recall they tracked Marik raiders to Scarborough, crushed them there and salvaged boatloads of stuff. Maybe the assembly line was built using salvage from that campaign.

Another thing that is of note is that Jaime Wolf, back in his Clan days, piloted an antiquated Archer in his Trial of Position.
Further, he acquired a Thor as isorla from Clan Nova Cat in an early battle. It so happens that the Thor B configuration features two LRM-20 and two SRM-4, the exact same weapons layout as the ARC-2W.
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skiltao

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #3 on: 29 August 2019, 15:48:30 »
In addition to what Frabby said, I think fans have tried to tie it to the Bombardier before. Something to do with old BattleDroids sculpts.

according to the Dragoons themselves (in Wolves on the Border iirc) the station was more a refit or maintenance facility than an actual factory. I take that to read they couldn't produce the components (fusion engine, gyro, etc.) there

If I remember right, Minobu thought the Dragoons were dodging the question. Don't think we can rule out production based on that scene.

Quote
Jaime Wolf himself told Minobu Tetsuhara that all Archers among Wolf's Dragoons were of this signature variant.

I'm trying to remember if we've seen -2R models in Dragoon service (besides on the cover to Wolf Pack and the Wolf's Dragoons sourcebook). I know it's been discussed before but I don't recall the outcome.
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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #4 on: 29 August 2019, 17:42:48 »
Its also not the only old SW design they refit for their own purposes . . . such as the Wasp 1W.
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mbear

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #5 on: 30 August 2019, 11:35:01 »
I'm trying to remember if we've seen -2R models in Dragoon service (besides on the cover to Wolf Pack and the Wolf's Dragoons sourcebook). I know it's been discussed before but I don't recall the outcome.

FWIW, flipping through the Wolf's Dragoons sourcebook doesn't show any specific Archer or Wasp variants. It just says Archer or Wasp; Probably so you can use whichever variant you like.

grimlock1

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #6 on: 10 September 2019, 08:57:04 »
Any descriptions of Archers in combat featured in Wolves on the Border doesn't say anything that indicates Wolf or any other Dragoon was driving a non-standard Archer.  I read things out of order so I had already been through the BoK trilogy before I got WotB, but Charrette was remarkably subtle about something. He talks about Katana Kat, the Tetsuhara family Panther, and the Minobu's embarrassment at being dispossessed. Yet there wasn't even a comment about "Wolf's Archer was lost, and then 10 minutes later he has a new one."
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mbear

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #7 on: 11 September 2019, 08:37:30 »
Any descriptions of Archers in combat featured in Wolves on the Border doesn't say anything that indicates Wolf or any other Dragoon was driving a non-standard Archer.

Are you sure? I thought he said to Tetsuhara at one point that he used an Archer-W because "...seeing me in one makes the troops happy" or something to that effect.

Yet there wasn't even a comment about "Wolf's Archer was lost, and then 10 minutes later he has a new one."

What incident are you talking about here? I don't remember this at all.

But if your highly skilled leader of a multi-regiment force had lost his ride for some reason, I think you'd get him a new one pretty quick! ;)

grimlock1

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #8 on: 11 September 2019, 09:11:23 »
Are you sure? I thought he said to Tetsuhara at one point that he used an Archer-W because "...seeing me in one makes the troops happy" or something to that effect.
Don't recall that line but all that confirms is that there exists a Dragoon variant, not what it might be.

What incident are you talking about here? I don't remember this at all.

But if your highly skilled leader of a multi-regiment force had lost his ride for some reason, I think you'd get him a new one pretty quick! ;)
Tetsuhara was attached to the Dragoons and running a borrowed Vindicator, when he came upon a Dragoon Archer, waist deep in a lava flow.  He didn't realize it at the time but it was Wolf.  He was able to jump in and rescue Wolf, but the Archer was a a loss.
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mbear

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #9 on: 11 September 2019, 09:33:54 »
Tetsuhara was attached to the Dragoons and running a borrowed Vindicator, when he came upon a Dragoon Archer, waist deep in a lava flow.  He didn't realize it at the time but it was Wolf.  He was able to jump in and rescue Wolf, but the Archer was a a loss.

Ah. Thanks! I was thinking of the first time they'd met, when Wolf's Archer had shut down due to heat and was painted blue and gold. I guess the lava flow unit was a loaner which is why Tetsuhara didn't reallize who it was.

nckestrel

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #10 on: 11 September 2019, 10:02:53 »
Wolf's Dragoons sourcebook, p100 says "Blackwell also modifies a small number of standard Archer class BattleMechs to produce the Dragoon's unique Archer-W variants."
It also says Blackwell has been under contract to the Dragoons for nearly 18 years, with the book being set in 3028.  Therefore the 3010 date for the ARC-W.  (The Kestrel actually predates that by a couple years, 3007, which we assumed wasn't widely known and thus the Archer is stated as the beginning of the Blackwell relationship. The Marauder II is listed as "most recently.." so is closer to 3028 than 3010).
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Colt Ward

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #11 on: 11 September 2019, 10:09:00 »
They went to Blackwell to replace the loss of the Hephasteus, so it makes some sense they found another source for their exclusive designs they would want/need to keep in production.

Now . . . I DO wonder what you could do with Dragoon exclusives and Endosteel even if it was not Clan grade.  I know we get all those rumor/cites like Natasha's Marauder hitting harder or farther, which gets hard to confirm considering the Bounty Hunter took it.
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nckestrel

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #12 on: 11 September 2019, 10:58:59 »
There's nothing saying Hephasteus produced Archers?
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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #13 on: 11 September 2019, 11:29:47 »
Nothing saying what it produced if anything IIRC.  Earlier cite was the discussion between Jaime & Tetsuhara, saying the ability to build a mech was overblown/rumor.

But even IF it was just a rebuilding factory, then they could convert any other Archer they salvaged into their Dragoon version.
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nckestrel

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #14 on: 11 September 2019, 12:00:03 »
Hephasteus was destroyed in 3028, Blackwell started working for WD in 3010 (or 3007 for the Kestrel). So going to Blackwell was not in response to Hephasteus' destruction.
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Frabby

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #15 on: 11 September 2019, 12:07:04 »
FWIW, flipping through the Wolf's Dragoons sourcebook doesn't show any specific Archer or Wasp variants. It just says Archer or Wasp; Probably so you can use whichever variant you like.
At a quick glance I counted (only) 43 Archers in the Dragoon "phone book" (take that number with a grain of salt, it was just a quick check). That book lists rosters from pre-Misery, i.e. at the Dragoons' best condition for a long time to come (and when they had rebuilt the -2W wasn't relevant anymore).
How many Archers does it need to create a proper subtype that would be recognized as such?
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Colt Ward

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #16 on: 11 September 2019, 12:08:51 »
My apologies, I did not have the sources and thought you were suggesting the other way.  I knew they had a relationship Blackwell going back a while but I did not have the dates.  I just knew they had to rely on outside sources they locked into a exclusive relationship and things changed after they lost their station & set up on Outreach.
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grimlock1

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #17 on: 11 September 2019, 14:55:22 »
At a quick glance I counted (only) 43 Archers in the Dragoon "phone book" (take that number with a grain of salt, it was just a quick check). That book lists rosters from pre-Misery, i.e. at the Dragoons' best condition for a long time to come (and when they had rebuilt the -2W wasn't relevant anymore).
How many Archers does it need to create a proper subtype that would be recognized as such?
I would argue greater concentration would reduce the threshold.   If some hypothetical reinforced battalion size independent unit has 2 non-standard versions of a particular mech in each company's fire lance, I would argue that is a proper sub type. Double that number and spread it across the entire AFFC and it's just one-off that crops up now and again.
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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #18 on: 12 September 2019, 00:51:00 »
Ah. Thanks! I was thinking of the first time they'd met, when Wolf's Archer had shut down due to heat and was painted blue and gold. I guess the lava flow unit was a loaner which is why Tetsuhara didn't realize who it was.

both times the Archer was in the Blue&Gold. and Tetsuhara didn't know what Mech Wolf drove until after that rescue. Tetsuhara hadn't been provided with any detailed intel on the Dragoons prior to starting the job of Liaison, and Wolf never said what mech he piloted during that initial meeting in the mobile HQ. and right after Tetsuhara got sent to obtain a loaner mech while the dragoons fought. when Tetsuhara found the blue and gold archer stuck in the lava, all he knew was that it was a dragoons mech, and that is resembled the dragoons mech he'd allowed to escape years earlier.

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #19 on: 18 September 2019, 16:46:03 »
actually, that brings up an interesting question - is Wolf's hero mech from the kickstarter going to be the variant, or the standard? and in either case, will it be noticeable.

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #20 on: 18 September 2019, 16:47:43 »
Jaime Wolf is not in the Legendary box . . . for the IS its Morgan Kell (Archer) and Grayson Carlyle (Marauder) . . . now, I would expect him in the Legends book.
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Greatclub

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Re: back stroy on the Archer ARC-2W
« Reply #21 on: 18 September 2019, 17:19:54 »
Jaime Wolf is not in the Legendary box . . . for the IS its Morgan Kell (Archer) and Grayson Carlyle (Marauder) . . . now, I would expect him in the Legends book.
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