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Author Topic: What's on New Sierra?  (Read 1097 times)

m79

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What's on New Sierra?
« on: 04 September 2019, 20:31:48 »
I had the Star League developing a long-range triple-core system based on the Trailblazer One ship mentioned in Star League with attempts by the Terran Hegemony to colonize *very* distant systems via long-range drives.  New Sierra was the most peripheral of these in the game and a major research installaion wiped out by Amaris forces during the war.  With this in mind, what sorts of prototypes was the Star League capable of producing in canon for 2770 or 2775?  How much has this really been explored?  And does anyone else have thoughts about what (if anything or anyone) is on New Sierra?

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #1 on: 04 September 2019, 21:49:34 »
Can you give a canon source where you got the reference from?
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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #2 on: 04 September 2019, 22:09:42 »
New Sierra is mentioned in the Interstellar Expedition books, but it's history is nothing like that. It was discovered in 3012 and believed to have been settled around the time of the Reunification War. It had a population of 3 billion before destroying itself through nuclear warfare.

I think the Trailblazer I was mentioned in the star league sourcebook, but I'll have to wait until after dinner to check.
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m79

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #3 on: 04 September 2019, 22:37:27 »
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/New_Sierra

The source for New Sierra is IE3 as mentioned, but the history of the planet is uncertain after the 2700s.  Not a nice place to visit but there are questions.

Also, given the triple-core reference from the Star League sourcebook, maybe a Bug-Eye Microdrive with three outlaying K-F cores somehow arranged around it with bleeding-edge tech to make the drives coordinate simultaneously instead of rip each other to pieces?

But either way the question of Star League/Terran Hegemony prototypes remains.  My guess was that without immediate neighboring space and the increasing power of neighboring rivals, unless there are deep space O'Neil colonies somewhere then maybe the Hegemony developed colonies way farther afield and kept the tech secret after figuring out how to make longer distance travel possible.

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #4 on: 05 September 2019, 00:04:52 »
Just as Micanos was a stand-in for the gold-rush era Klondike, New St. Andrews was "Scottish Highland clans," and Alphard was "Rome in Space," my read of the entry on New Sierra suggested it was intended to be "Fallout in Space." 

With widespread radiation, leftover advanced tech that could be scavenged, and survivors in deep bunkers, you could basically have a Fallout-themed campaign there and, if you get past the laser sats, make your first stop at nearby Shady Palms.  (Shady Sands is the first stop for the Vault Dweller in Fallout 1.) 

Next stop, the New California Nebula Republic.
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beachhead1985

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #5 on: 05 September 2019, 01:17:30 »
Wow, can I get a page ref for Trailblazer?
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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #6 on: 05 September 2019, 01:42:32 »
Wow, can I get a page ref for Trailblazer?

Star League sourcebook, p. 60.
Crew: 479. 
HPG equipped. 
Had three jump drives, all linked to a central control computer through a single circuit junction. 
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"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Frabby

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #7 on: 05 September 2019, 03:14:40 »
Why is there no Sarna article about this ship? Will go and draw something up...
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Wrangler

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #8 on: 05 September 2019, 07:50:42 »
Problem using the IE3 is it's semi-canon.  Its good for adventure stuff, but its content from what i understand isn't fully considered canon.  Where does New Sierra connect to Trailblazer thing though?
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beachhead1985

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #9 on: 05 September 2019, 12:00:47 »
Star League sourcebook, p. 60.
Crew: 479. 
HPG equipped. 
Had three jump drives, all linked to a central control computer through a single circuit junction. 
Launched 2655 to map and survey unexplored star systems.

Holy Cow. That would be SUPER-ILLEGAL under the current jump drive rules, no? Still going in my "truely unseen" list though; it would make a great "Boondoggle".
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Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
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Frabby

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #10 on: 05 September 2019, 13:08:28 »
Holy Cow. That would be SUPER-ILLEGAL under the current jump drive rules, no? Still going in my "truely unseen" list though; it would make a great "Boondoggle".
It's described in a canonical source. And there is no indication that it didn't work, was a boondoggle, or even a prototype.
My take on it is that it was three jump cores co-joined, Ryan Cartel-style, with some physical connection (myomer or monofilament cables). Perhaps the entire rig was rotating, for stability and possibly artificial gravity. And it was the connecting component that was hit by the meteorite.

Of course that doesn't explain how the physical connection could remain intact during jumps. Ryan Cartel coordinated jumps with overlapping KF fields work but totally mangle the space in-between during the jump. That isn't a problem if you're transporting an iceberg, but for most other cargos or even a physical connection between the vessels I imagine it is a problem.
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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #11 on: 05 September 2019, 20:11:16 »
Rather than being a mechanism for doing super-jumps, the three drives might have just been for maximum redundancy.  After all, a deep range explorer can’t count on another ship coming by if their drive fails or they misjump.  With two redundant drives, if one goes out when you are 20,000 LY from home, you still have two more, and can keep jumping even if your first backup drive fails too.  The Trailblazer just had the misfortune to have the non-redundant control computer severed from all three fully intact drives, stranding them at Omega Lord.
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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #12 on: 05 September 2019, 20:39:33 »
Rather than being a mechanism for doing super-jumps, the three drives might have just been for maximum redundancy.  After all, a deep range explorer can’t count on another ship coming by if their drive fails or they misjump.

I like that. Perhaps it had 3 controllers and initiators but a single core.

Quote
  With two redundant drives, if one goes out when you are 20,000 LY from home, you still have two more, and can keep jumping even if your first backup drive fails too.  The Trailblazer just had the misfortune to have the non-redundant control computer severed from all three fully intact drives, stranding them at Omega Lord.

Strategic Operations does frown on having cores close by each other. And the masses of even compact cores would make three of them hard to fit into a single ship.
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beachhead1985

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #13 on: 06 September 2019, 09:40:37 »
It's described in a canonical source. And there is no indication that it didn't work, was a boondoggle, or even a prototype.
My take on it is that it was three jump cores co-joined, Ryan Cartel-style, with some physical connection (myomer or monofilament cables). Perhaps the entire rig was rotating, for stability and possibly artificial gravity. And it was the connecting component that was hit by the meteorite.

Of course that doesn't explain how the physical connection could remain intact during jumps. Ryan Cartel coordinated jumps with overlapping KF fields work but totally mangle the space in-between during the jump. That isn't a problem if you're transporting an iceberg, but for most other cargos or even a physical connection between the vessels I imagine it is a problem.

Yeah, but the rules on operational jumpcores are pretty clear on this one; cannot have more than one, even a dead core, it seems and make a jump.

IMO: I think that makes yardships redundant, but there it is. By the way we setup the XTRO: Boondoggles, that was where we put the designs from the fluff that were illegal under the rules of the game.
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These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #14 on: 06 September 2019, 10:51:00 »
Why can't we have very experimenal very limited inhibitor or regulator to all the jump cores be connected like length wise? Sort of a enlarged kf core that wired like christmas tree. If there failer, the other two can be used.

I hate seeing universe being pegged into something so limiting.
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beachhead1985

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #15 on: 06 September 2019, 17:56:42 »
Why can't we have very experimenal very limited inhibitor or regulator to all the jump cores be connected like length wise? Sort of a enlarged kf core that wired like christmas tree. If there failer, the other two can be used.

I hate seeing universe being pegged into something so limiting.

I wouldn't blink at that; *I* Think the two-cores=boom rule is silly anyways; a solution looking for a problem.
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These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
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skiltao

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #16 on: 06 September 2019, 18:33:02 »
If the drives are there for redundancy, they'd almost have to be external to the hull so you could detach a malfunctioning one.

I like that. Perhaps it had 3 controllers and initiators but a single core.

Strategic Operations does frown on having cores close by each other. And the masses of even compact cores would make three of them hard to fit into a single ship.

"...a micro-asteroid had penetrated the vessel at the circuit junction that tied the ship's three jump drives into its computers. The damage rendered the ship's vital computer inoperable, stranding the Trailblazer."

Sounds like a single controller tied to three cores. Could be the whole three-lobed arrangement is no more or less than a single compact core with surprising architecture.

Of course that doesn't explain how the physical connection could remain intact during jumps. Ryan Cartel coordinated jumps with overlapping KF fields work but totally mangle the space in-between during the jump.

Equally, there is no reason yet to expect the physical connection wouldn't remain intact. Factors known to cause issues for Ryan Cartel style field mapping and alignment do not apply to a physically close, physically connected space; factors which would affect a physically close, physically connected space have never been put forth.
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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #17 on: 06 September 2019, 18:37:22 »
*snip*
Could be the whole three-lobed arrangement is no more or less than a single compact core with surprising architecture.
*snip*
I'm liking this theory the best, so far at least...

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #18 on: 09 September 2019, 11:37:23 »
could be one core, triple redundant controllers and initiators, but the designers forgot to make the navigation system linkup sufficiently redundant. or forgot to run their triple redundant linkages through different locations, resulting in a 'redundant' design that was good against losses from extended use, but had a single point of failure for damage.

(something that got brought up in Star Trek once, iirc in DS9. that starfleet was refitting the station with extra redundancies, but one of the non-starfleet personnel pointed out they had the redundant systems all routed through the same area, meaning that you could still disable the system if it got damaged in the right place)

Talen5000

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #19 on: 16 September 2019, 20:52:47 »
Holy Cow. That would be SUPER-ILLEGAL under the current jump drive rules, no? Still going in my "truely unseen" list though; it would make a great "Boondoggle".

Except it wasn't a boondoggle. The ship worked and failed only because the central computer got fried in a freak accident.

One could posit the two are linked, but the canon info also seems quite clear that the triple core jumped.

Possibilities -

Alongside the IceShips, it is "evidence" that multiple jumpdrives CAN work in concert, likely with corresponding increases in jump distance or efficiency. IceShips routinely transported tens of millions of tons. It is simply that such fields need to be tightly controlled and maintained, likely with some sort of feedback mechanism to avoid the fields de-syncing and it is this control element that is difficult, possibly needing some sort of tuning


The triple core does work....but the gains were minimal or came with significant drawbacks. Yay - your ship can jump 90LYs at a  time. BOOOO....your ship now takes six months to recharge as continuing flux eddies in the cores means static charges build up and these must be discharged very so often. Oh...and it costs a hundred times as much, and requires five times the maintenace crew. And that coolant needs to be replaced every ten jumps because the core makes it radioactive.

The news report is wrong, maybe part of a leaked ploy by Star League to have the Houses start a multidrive race.

Personally, I like the idea that a mutidrive vessel existed. Its the sort of project that would be followed up trying to make it feasible. The IceShip concept shows that mutliple drives do reinforce each other and the temptation to research doing so in such a manner that the JumpShip didn't end up scrambled during transit would no doubt be very tempting. Think of the megaships that the SL could have fielded if such a technology worked. They'd have been jumping entire stations.

However, while I like the idea that the concept was researched, that the tech isn't around suggests either it was lost,  or there was something wrong with it. Some of the ideas floated around here are quite interesting as well, although i like the "It's a compact core with unusual architecture"

Could be that a Compact Core could be just that - some form of micro core that are hardwired together in self synchronising array....and the existing set up is the best option around.



« Last Edit: 19 September 2019, 13:22:50 by Talen5000 »
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Daryk

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #20 on: 16 September 2019, 20:56:05 »
*snip*
The news report is wrong, maybe part of a leaked ploy by Star League to have the Houses start a multidrive race.
*snip*
This one is my favorite...  ^-^

beachhead1985

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #21 on: 19 September 2019, 09:42:02 »
Could be the whole three-lobed arrangement is no more or less than a single compact core with surprising architecture.


I have a custom JS design built around a core part-way between normal and compact; it's basically H-shaped.
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And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
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Daryk

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #22 on: 19 September 2019, 18:24:40 »
H-shaped??  ???

beachhead1985

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #23 on: 20 September 2019, 00:34:48 »
H-shaped??  ???

How else you going to get more jump-collars? You either get a longer and longer jumpship or make it a space-catamaran.

Kinda a jumpship-take on the cargo-warships.
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These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
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Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #24 on: 20 September 2019, 04:44:31 »
The Potemkin does it by getting bigger around too...

beachhead1985

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #25 on: 20 September 2019, 16:33:12 »
The Potemkin does it by getting bigger around too...

That's one way to do it as well; I wanted to be different.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #26 on: 20 September 2019, 19:08:14 »
That's a totally legit reason... just not clear from your initial comment...  :)

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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #27 on: 22 September 2019, 00:04:29 »
I have a custom JS design built around a core part-way between normal and compact; it's basically H-shaped.

I did it the David Weber way; one jump collar connecting to a long 2x4 with 3-4 Jump collars on it.  Can't put it on a WarShip, but I figured it might work on a JumpShip.
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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #28 on: 24 September 2019, 16:27:54 »
By the way we setup the XTRO: Boondoggles, that was where we put the designs from the fluff that were illegal under the rules of the game.

We?  ???
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Re: What's on New Sierra?
« Reply #29 on: 25 September 2019, 04:28:19 »
Could the 3 cores really be a core and two batteries?  That would allow the ship to jump further.  Or if the SLDF had superjump capability could allow for even longer super jumps.